Visit my thread about Debates & Discussions

Why I'm Posting This Stuff

As mentioned in my last post (link above) I've been tasked with making the streets great again (sequin hats will be on sale later today, get yours while they're hot!) So this is a series of discussions amongst the players about what the hell it is you guys really enjoy and want to see on the streets.  A lot of people sound off about what they don't like but usually, that's in the streets and that's a place to speak as your character.  I'm interested in the opinions of the players.

Types of Newspapers

• Tabloids - you know the sort where the writers use their platforms to write their editorial opinions of things happening in the streets and the game.  Usually commentary about leadership, questioning wars, and the recent en vogue practice of insulting of storytellers.
• News - 'just the facts ma'am' type publication where we see a rundown of recent events in-game and stories without personal input.
• Interviews - These often get put in both Tabloids and News, people interview members of the site to learn more about them and the fictional characters they are playing.  These tend to blur that OC/IC line sometimes.

Newspapers ... and their challenges

So here are a few thoughts on newspapers:

1. Tabloids are enjoyed but it takes a brave soul to come out and speak 'truth' to power.  
2. With Tabloids, someone always ends up feeling like they are g getting bashed (either the writer when they pick a popular subject to tear down or the target of the hit piece.) As with my remarks on Debates and Discussions you always run the risk of chasing off solid community members with this and so I'm hesitant to promote it.  I want MR to grow and thrive.
3. News can be very boring and some would argue you're just restating things that are already in the streets.  On the other hand, it can be really handy to have a place where important stuff is collected in one place and easy to find.
4. With interviews being what they are, do they toe the oc/ic line too closely?  Should a standard be set for these?  If so... what?

What are your thoughts on newspapers and tabloids?  Are they vital?  Do you want to see more of them?  What do you enjoy most or least about papers?  Any advice about how to do them 'right?'

You share some very valid points...

But I would often say that the Newspapers and general talk about MR and the nitty gritty stuff that might offend some people are often the most talked about posts in the streets.

And quite regularly to most watched articles on the streets too.

I would argue that these posts add more value to to MR community than a story such as (https://mafiareturns.com/comm/thread/1473098#22939813) which no one other than me would decide to read I do not even think the writer reads them back to himself. Half of which does not make any sense, if you was to actually read this out loud would just sound like an old drunk man talking jiberish.

Please correct me if I am wrong but I think the streets should be open to interaction

A lot of what you said pertains to stories and my next discussion will be about those.  Suffice to say, you're wrong.  I and others do go back and re-read our stories.  In fact, we often build our next characters off the descendants of our characters and npcs from our current stories.  This is such an important part of the storyteller culture that many of us keep bios on our profiles, websites, or in BA posts.

This is one of mine:  https://mafiareturns.com/comm/thread/1295026/tpass/2d43e828a26685a3a073fc378965117b#18223544

It helps me find old RPs, know what happened to my character when and with whom, allows me to reference the past exploits of my character (you know when someone says "my mother's journal said blah" ... I have a journal lol) Suffice to say it's really easy to say "that is no value" because it's not entertaining to you.

However, I could say a certain type of music doesn't have value simply because I don't like it.  Or maybe a TV show is garbage because I don't like it and it has low ratings... but I'm SURE someone out there enjoys it.  You can't know what entertains the quiet majority of the site and speaking for them really isn't fair.

Besides which, writers don't write for an audience.  They write stories to entertain themselves, this is a concept that often seems lost on people who don't enjoy the hobby of creating stories.

My main point to the post was to show the value of Newspapers vs Stories

Newspapers have value yes they are controversial but quite often they ask the questions we are all thinking, For example lets look at Fat People 4.0 there is a part in there about crew hopping.

This to me is something that I think needed to be addressed, I was Part of LA before the war and I saw multiple people that reaped the benefits of being a member of LA and as soon as the shit hit the fan so to speak, they ran with their tails between their legs to another city. 2 out of those people not have been given Auth. 

so 2 of the most un-loyal people I now know have their own crews. This is what people want to hear the numbers speak for themselves

25 Replies and 196 View in just 2 days!

This alone has more replies and almost as many views as a take down post which so many people were prepared to say they missed.

There is Value to this and Grin-06 and Al_Capone. Should be able to continue this trend.

It would not be a bad idea to have these join the city of LA in my opinion maybe as a sub crew even if the GQ was just small which could be Crew Name:  Fat People News Editors or something along those lines 

Controversial stuff always gets clicks.  A title like that was bound to be clickbait as people were like "what the hell is this" and like any good car wreck, people slow down to watch the carnage. 

With regard to the recent "fat people" newspaper... the question is will they seek out the other side of that story from those who did the deed, those who auth'd people etc and share it in a way that isn't just slamming them or tongue-in-cheek mocking?  I mean, they did a GREAT job coming out to the street and expressing a popular opinion (leaving your crew in wartime is bad) but I'd be interested in seeing an unbiased article about the reasons for those authorizations, why people seek out other crews during wars, what impact (if any) has it had on the community ... and if it's so bad, why do people keep doing it?  Hell, could you write that SAME STYLE of newspaper for the other side of the debate without turning it into a snarky support for your side of the argument?  I'm honestly asking cause I'm not sure it could be done.

Journalism is GREAT - but when someone makes a paper to show one person's opinion that's an editorial or tabloid... not news.  You want to impress me?  Show me both sides of the story and prove to me one opinion is better than the other.  Then I'll definitely be not only entertained but also moved to view it with more respect than just someone writing "sick burns" for views.  But so long as a 'paper' shows only one side of the debate I think I'm justified in viewing it as a tabloid/editorial and not journalism. 

Am I wrong?

I think if you look at any newspaper in the history or the entire world it has Biased views and opinions. yet we still buy them do we not?

The difference with having the newspaper here in this forum on the MR game its self is people have a chance to defence themselves and actually submit a response to while everyone can read, If that is not getting both sides to the story the I don't know what is?

Lets say for example it was you who was to write the newspaper or defend the stories that are being posted in the streets, This would be written with your biased opinions. it is impossible for that not to happen, Hell when i am writing this this is my biased opinion.

It doesn't mean that people will not agree of disagree with me. The best way to resolve this would be to cast a vote on whether the News paper should exist or not, because what you are asking isn't realistic. 

Media bias is the bias or perceived bias of journalists and news producers within the mass media in the selection of many events and stories that are reported and how they are covered. ... There are a number of national and international watchdog groups that report on bias in the media.

 I for one give a big +1 to the newspapers. An also a +1 for Grin-06 and Al_Capone to continue with their headlines. 

If they would release this weekly I can honestly say I will be waiting on the edge of my seat to read this on the day it is published

So the challenge would be finding people who have the courage (or love being masochists enough) to take on representing unpopular or unvoiced opinions?  Might be an interesting thing to try.

Regardless, thank you for your input EdSheeran  :)

Someone was apparently worried about the backlash and sent me this privately (thanks for the credit by the way) so I'm going to add it to the thread for the sake of documenting the discussion.

You were transferred 1.00 credits by an anonymous benefactor. The note "Please, no "coverage" of the "stories" in the Streets... Ugh. Who wants to read Mafia romances? Stick to the REAL news." was included.

I wouldn't say that 'no news' would really be a good answer, I'm just not super fond of hit pieces that tear down people and what they enjoy here at the site.  I don't think they really promote a strong sense of community.  While they might be amusing to some, others view them as bullying and can cost the community members and when the community loses members - we all lose ... in my opinion.

As for your opinion on romance, it's just that, an opinion.  I'll leave you to discuss that in the stories discussion thread found here in the ooc board.  

Thanks for your input!

Hmm upon reading that again I think our anonymous was simply saying they didn't want us to review or summarize romance threads.  Gotcha.  Thanks for your input!

You were transferred 1.00 credits by an anonymous benefactor. The note "You say you will take all opinions into consideration, but when oneyou don't like it brought forward you get catty about it. Guess you can't take the heat." was included.

Heat?  I wasn't aware I was supposed to be offended by your previous comment.  Was it targeting me in some way I don't understand?

As for the rest... I like to think I'm taking all opinions into consideration, that doesn't mean I'll always agree with them but I'll hear folks out.  A newspaper covering or not covering the content of RP in the streets is something that should be considered.  I completely agree with you.  Your opinion seems to be that all stories in the streets are romance and perhaps that's been your experience, it's not mine, but it doesn't invalidate your opinion.  

This is a discussion (even if yours keep being sent privately) it's not a declaration of what will be.  Honestly, Mr. EdSheeran came out here and made a very well-spoken point and I can see where he's coming from and appreciate his input a lot.  In fact, it may lead to the construction of a newspaper which researches and reports on points of view that aren't normally voiced in the streets.  Who knows?  Today isn't the day for decisions... but input.  And I appreciate you sharing yours, but it's no more or less important than anyone else's.

I think the use of pseudonym articles is massively under rated. I would expect these not to be one offs but people who back up their articles week on week offering a steady stream of articles for the paper.

Speaking your mind is liable to see you dead in this world when your views are strong. You can say that this is not the case but it very much is. I do not mean someone can go off on a tangent and hammer someone into the floor. It would be the job of the editor to welcome these views, hold their confidence and to print what is appropriate. It would take a massive trust in the editor for the people to truly come forward but what you will get in return is some really good opinion pieces that will spark discussion, sometimes change but most importantly the people at the bottom will actually have a voice.

Surely that would be a massive step forward?

Holy crap Farage, I like where you're headed with that idea.  Something to add to my list.  Thank you for coming out and sounding off!

Al Capone and Grin's paper is not click bait.  It is fun.  It is well written and enjoyable.  I fully support Al Capone's efforts.  I have read very little of his work that didn't put a smile on my face.  I only know of things he has done in the last six months or so, but I think it has been awesome, and makes me want to actually read the streets. Grin has been writing newspapers with exceptional circulation for at least 5 times longer than you have been around in this world full stop. They haven't only written newspapers.  They have role played, they have drawn other people and other leaders into conversations.  They have, here and there, inspired me to write.  When I read of the purpose behind Hollywood LA in the eyes of the current godfather council, I assumed that one of them would be running things, as they have clearly proven that they know how to capture the attention of the masses and make the streets enjoyable.  I was hoping to see one of them step up and maybe mentor some of the other writers in the community, because I would love to see people with similar charisma out on the streets keeping them as great as they have been while these men have been writing.  It is unfortunate that they didn't apply.

Regarding the idea that any kind of newspaper is "bullying" or tearing people down.... you realize that this is a mafia game right?  People should have some balls to say what they think and should deal with the consequences if someone doesn't like what they chose to say.  The idea that anyone should tiptoeing around feelings in posts in a mafia game is straight up silly. I would be very disappointed to see any sort of regular pseudonym writing happening in the streets.  If someone wants to say something controversial they should have to say it with their own name and accept the consequences  of their choices.

There was a time before you joined the community when writing was heavily valued, and you couldn't be made without posting.  People weren't promoted to crew leader unless they had some threads under their belts.  They didn't need a reward system to be valued in any way at all. During that time, I read every single thread that his the streets.  You had to if you were going to keep up with the politics in our world.  Since the implementation of the reward system, I have needed and wanted to read very very little of what is produced.  Almost everything currently posted in the streets belongs in the business districts. People were killed more regularly for posting disrespectful bullshit, but a lot of those people learned and came back with a better idea of how to express their opinions respectfully.  It used to be that you could say whatever you want, as long as you knew how to say it.  That should still be the case.

I feel like I have strayed a little from what I originally wanted to say, so I will just finish up here.  I hope that you do produce a paper voicing unpopular opinions such as "made men should not be publicly ridiculed for jumping ship," because maybe it will stir up a heated conversation about something interesting and relevant to everyone's lives here.  This is a mafia game.  We are all meant to be role playing mafioso, and things that are said in the streets should be what breeds arguments that eventually lead to wars as opposed to who we are all friends with on whatsapp.

To be 100% clear, I felt that the title of 'fat people' was a clickbait title and I stand by that statement.  When I see something in the streets that has a title like that I'm bound to go "what the hell is that about?"  It causes me to click.  That's is kinda the point of clickbait right?  The idea is to write a title that is controversial or attention-grabbing, even if it has nothing to do with what the article is about? 

Was their newspaper amusing?  Clearly it was to some people, and if the posts here are anything to go by it's something that some people want to see more of.  The point of this thread was to hear from other players, players who I might not normally hang out with, and make note of their thoughts and opinions.  Why?  Because I was asked to build something not in my own image of what it is 'fun' or 'good' but to build something for the community.

So far I've been successful in that, people are coming here and letting me know they don't think my point of view is the only one and even that it might not be the right one.  Not a lot of people coming in here to say they support my points of view.  Maybe they feel they don't need to but I'm here saying right now, if you disagree with anything being said then you should speak up because I'm using the feedback here as a template for what it is people really want. 

I don't expect that anyone will 100% agree with me on what is right or best for the community, but you hit on what I feel is a major issue here right on the head: respect.  The streets are not a place where respect is shown.  Perhaps that's a product of changes to the VIP system, but I'm inclined to think the issue is deeper than that and the goal of this particular discussion was to talk about what people want to see in newspapers so I'll stop digressing.

Regardless of any points that we disagree on, thank you very much for coming out and sharing your preferences and opinions on the topic.  

I would agree to call it clickbait if the paper contained lame nonsense that no one wants to read.  Since it is instead filled with amazing charts relating to cookie distribution, I think that calling it clickbait is a derogatory misrepresentation.  It's not even really controversial, it is a reference to a very stupid thread that people have been posting in for years.  Apparently there have been 3 iterations.  It amused some of the very weak minded people in our community for generations, and apparently they wanted to keep the idea going in a new form after the most recent version was deleted as spam.

Apparently I had missed the reference to some long-standing community threads.  I extend my apologizes.  There's not much more to say other than I am sorry and I was wrong.  Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

Having read each of these threads and their subsequent replies, I have begun to feel that the issues are rather the same in each one and I regret not having started with this one as I have likely wasted my time.

Your view seems to be that people do not roleplay in the way you like, users should value the content you like more than they actually do; storytellers are not getting enough respect, their feelings are hurt by mild satire and these amount to "hit-pieces" and "tearing down", which should not be permitted.

Your subsequent replies in reference to my work demonstrate to me a lack of understanding of the skill necessary to make it successful. Your dismissal of my work as car-crash viewing and click-bait make me think any attempt made from here to try something outside of your own perceived 'right way' of thread writing are destined for either ignominy or anonymity. 

I feel this is a disingenuous attempt to gather opinion and it seem rather more like you already have a preconceived notion of how it should be. 

Not at all Grin-06.  In truth I started out with a very negative view of your publication but the more of your input I've read on these threads the more I've become to see them in a different light.  With all candor, I say that I've had a change of heart in some regards on the topic and have already been discussing such with my hands.  I appreciate you taking the time to come express your points of view (and others too!)

As a side note, discussions happen like this.  People come to them with their ideas and they feel they are right.  There's nothing wrong with that, we each have our own life experiences.  The trick is to try and listen to others and allow your opinions to be tested.  Now that doesn't always mean your opinions change... but maybe they do.  

I never could have claimed honestly to NOT have a bias towards my own experiences which come with me from other roleplaying sites, all I can do is agree to try to be open to other points of view.  Since I was tasked with this district and these goals, I am trying to do that.