Firstly, I'm not suggesting that we tie accounts together and if one died, they all die. What I'm referring to is the practice where by if you commit in game fraud or speak out against the admin team and you are my sponsor or my hand, or my CL, then the top three in the family die. Guilty or innocent. 

This is something that has been worrying me, because frankly I feel that it puts more pressure on finding hands or a leader that you can trust 100%, which in an online community is all but impossible.

So what I'm suggesting is this.

1) You break the rules, you get DDed

2) Unless your hands or Cl or Whatever are explicitly guilty of the crime or covering up the crime, they don't die.

3) You get a 6 month ban in game from serving as a Hand or a CL coded into the game. In Real terms this is your deterrent from breaking the rules, in Game terms, if you are a tout, an embezzler, or shaft your GF, then your son is not going to be the next consigliere without serious work to prove he is not the father.

4) If you break the rules again, you go to a 6 moth or year ban, depending on the severity of the transgression, with the 6 mth ban on CL or hand coming into force after your return.

5) You break the rules again, you are banned for life.

I spent a lot of time speaking to Squishy earlier today, and laid out some concerns I had with the direction these group punishments were going, he said the following

16:10 <IzzyCreamcheese> I am down for any idea that meets the following:

16:10 <IzzyCreamcheese> an actual deterent

16:10 <IzzyCreamcheese> held to a higher standard

16:10 <IzzyCreamcheese> and actual punishment that doenst slingshot them back into power

So, A DD and a ban on being a hand or CL is definitely a deterrent. The Higher standard is as it has been, you are expected to play the game properly and not make up shit about the admins, and it certainly doesn't slingshot them back into power.

Pros: People who are actually innocent of breaking rules will not be punished for infractions they didn't commit. The fear of people accepting hand or sponsor positions, or in offering said positions is somewhat alleviated in that some tard can no longer get all your hard work thrown away with a off colour or flippant comment.

Negatives: Some people could very soon be banned from being a CL or from playing the game ever again given their track records.

As far as I am concerned anyone that gets DD'd for cause should be held to # 3.

You get a 6 month ban in game from serving as a Hand or a CL coded into the game. In Real terms this is your deterrent from breaking the rules, in Game terms, if you are a tout, an embezzler, or shaft your GF, then your son is not going to be the next consigliere without serious work to prove he is not the father.

How does this address the link to sponsors? Since sponsors are not to ask your background, I don't believe they should be held accountable for their recruits. A bad recruit should not get them wacked or a CL wacked IMHO.

Mercury, that's not normally what happens, but a bad sponsor can get the entire Upper Structure DDed. If I as a Sponsor for you am really bad and make accusations against the admin, the way it worked Izzy was free to admin you and your hands because of what I did. You chose me as your sponsor, so you condoned my behaviour.

And you are suggesting the sponsor tie be eliminated as well?

Yes. If you get DDed, its on you, the punishment is yours to bear, and its a harsher punishment accordingly. As you said, we can't ask people their backgrounds until they are made, and even then there is nothing to stop you lying about it.

I am fully behind this suggestion.

+1

1) You break the rules, you get DDed

2) Unless your hands or Cl or Whatever are explicitly guilty of the crime or covering up the crime, they don't die.

3) You get a 6 month ban in game from serving as a Hand or a CL coded into the game. In Real terms this is your deterrent from breaking the rules, in Game terms, if you are a tout, an embezzler, or shaft your GF, then your son is not going to be the next consigliere without serious work to prove he is not the father.

4) If you break the rules again, you go to a 6 moth or year ban, depending on the severity of the transgression, with the 6 mth ban on CL or hand coming into force after your return.

5) You break the rules again, you are banned for life.

I think I'm failing to understand something from numbers 1 and 2.

1. You break the rules, you get DD'd - Ok, so any rule I break I get DD'd.

2. Unless you hands or CL or Whatever are explicity guilty of the crime or covering up the crime, they don't die - You just stated if I break the rule I get DD'd. Why does it matter if they if hold a position that they have to be explicit guilty vice Gangster Timmy violating?

3. 6 month ban in game? eh - thats a bit extreme but I can understand you view on it. This doesn't deterrent players from breaking the rules (I.E. Clipper)

4. Refer to statement above

5. Refer to KuKu and Clipper bullshit over the years and not banned for life.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do agree with you break the rules you get DD'd but it should be straight across the board. I don't know care what was said. I think things that are said behind closed doors from the public is whatever certain degree. Obviously, people have said over the years that administration have been cheating or whatever. I personally don't see an issue with how its being handled.  I do agree with repeat offends being banned for reasonable time period. Izzy just happens to decent human and most players take advantage of his kindness, understanding and usually works things out with players that are trying to get of jail. I personally have no remorse and have no issue letting them serve out his/her time. As CL you are to handle yourself in different manner. Its the same way with rank. You either deserve to wear title or not. If cannot conduct yourself in the correct manner then maybe you shouldn't be in that position to start with... either way I think how its being is fine but I do see your point of views on how you view things should be dealt with in response to events

ScubaSteve you said quite a bit, so I'll try and deal with it all as best I can.

1. Yes any Admin rule you break you get DDed, which is pretty much as it is right now, particularly for a member of the upper structure.

2. At the moment, if you are LHM of the Scuba Crew, and you break the rules, your CL and his RHM will also die. If you are the CL, your Hands die. If you are the RHM, then the CL and the LHM die. This suggestion is to break that, so the death of one doesn't automatically guarantee the death of the other two. Likewise, if you are a Sponsor in the Scuba Crew, and you screw up, all three of the upper structure die. Now, only if they are guilty will they die.

3. Izzy's issue was that if you are the CL and He DD's you, your RHM sets up, and makes your new Character RHM, so no real change or punishment, the same people are still in charge. The 6 Month ban on being CL or Hand makes sure this doesn't happen, thereby taking the place of the 3 person DD that is the current situation. Simply put, if you don't break the game rules, you won't suffer the ban. It may not deter players from breaking the rules, but it will stop a DDed CL stepping straight into a RHM post. 

4. I know nothing of Clipper and what he did to break the rules, but this is going forward, Izzy usually doesn't get out the ban hammer unless you severely piss him off, from now it would be automatic.
 

5. Likewise with others this is going forward. Kuku broke the rules, but he made amends for his sins, and Izzy let him back. Others didn't and are still banned, others still are banned for life because they are repeat offenders. 

-----------------------------

Perhaps I wasn't clear, although these new rules would apply to everyone, they are primarily to get rid of the innocent getting punished along with the guilty, which is the current system, which we saw earlier when a CL broke the admin rules, was DDed and her two hands along with her, even though they hadn't broken any rules.

Ok - The way I read your initial statement was along the lines that CL,RH,and LH were being judge different because of their status. This probably due to my lack of sleep but thank you for clearing that up for me. I don't see an issue with that as long as have no ties to it at all. No need to punish others for someone else mistakes.

I get Izzy's issue and played that thought in my head of RH or LH setting up and putting them back in the position of power again but I mean that doesn't negate his/her next of kin arriving to these shores and being place back into position. My question to you would be how would go about ensuring that it doesn't happen? ( Example - CL gets DD'd for scamming but their kin returns to these shores joins Turtle Power crew and get placed as RH because they disclosed their past ancestors to the CL. ) I mean there is almost no way to prevent this from happening but just figured I would ask on how you implement something to stop from happening.

Yes, It does take a bit to get Izzy to drop the hammer but I've also watch people use his kindness just for these repeat offenders to continue to comeback. I know Izzy can speak on this topic but looking from outside I've seen clipper fuck people over time and time again but he still manages to show his face. I read from just misc. conversations in the coffee shops that KuKu was on year long ban but was able to sweet talk his way into these shores just to get admin wacked again...I feel like most people that know Izzy is a down to earth person and abuse his kindness.

I'm sure we have people that are banned for life and still are banned but I mean they obviously went above and beyond for this to happen.

Either way, thank you again for clearing the CL,RH, and LH part for me.

Izzy would code that in, You get DDed and it game flags you as ineligable for buying an HQ, or being a hand. Sure you could delete your master account, and start afresh, but then that would be breaking the rules around circumventing a ban, and get you a worse ban.

An absolute +1 from me. Very well thought out ideas and would solve a lot of issues