Chuck mulled and cogitated over Grin-07’s bold and audacious plan to invite any common or garden geezer/geezette to open a compact and bijou premises alongside him and it got him thinking…anything to avoid dealing with Grinble  Beach perhaps?

I am very much a proponent of Grin’s plan, indeed it is something I would consider in Ballard if it didn't look like copying, however I’m here to discuss the immediate step before anyone potentially moves to Chicago to take up his offer.  The wise guy…or more specifically the scorched earth policy of wars that culls everyone down to the lowest of the low that can shoot a gun.

First of all, a little piece of my bloodline’s long held thoughts.  We have long thought (some may say naively) one step to a vibrant criminal community is an equal opportunity approach to leadership within cities.  By that, I mean are people too rigid in the approach to auths within a city?  This is not the question I wish to pose, merely a segue into what I really want to ask:

Is scorched earth short sighted and could Grin’s blueprint be a way forward to avoid things getting “a bit samey” for many people?

I understand why some people view scorched earth as necessary; it removes any potential allies that provide protection to a crew leader under attack and the flip side is that it allows many more people to be involved in the removal of cities and districts however is it really the wisest way?

Let’s use a fictional city – Auchenshoogle. 

Say people were tired of Jimmy’s dangerous leadership of Auchenshoogle and wanted him and his two district heads out of the way.  Having removed most of the big movers and shakers at made man and above in the first wave, Jimmy has three wise guys and a gangster under him but all the rest of the wise guys etc are unsponsored and roaming the streets.  If they are not identified as actually posing danger i.e. witness statements, why kill them? 

Once Jimmy has eventually been removed and a new city head put in place, even city and district heads in place, why not typically let the city grow organically with these wise guys who want to remain in the cities setting up little operations looking to grow to be the strongest?  Is that not our version of the American dream?  If people choose not to do that and seek employment elsewhere then fair play but would this not be a more vibrant blueprint?

Auchshoogle’s new city head presumably has a good and strong relationship with his district heads but it is then up to him and his district heads to foster good relationships with these little “gangs” that appear…or more appropriately, these gangs have to curry favour with the district head in order to survive.  If an argument happens within these little gangs then it’s a storm in a teacup but it maintains a city head’s focus on his city and the relationships within.

“Well what about actual rogues Chuck, surely they’d just blend in with all these little gangs?”

Well with Grin’s blueprint for set-up costs and tribute, rogues would be quite obvious.  Rogues appearing and trying to cause havoc would still be dealt with in the usual manner.

Anyway, this is probably enough for now. 

Is scorched earth really necessary other than as a tool to wave a metaphorical dick in the face of those defeated?

I think you've got a lot of good points Charles_Barkley , though I thought we were already doing Grin-07 's thing in Seattle only with 30 man crews? I just assumed that's how you and Right got set up? Although thinking about it you are pretty far behind on your weekly payments, presumably you've used Right as a courier and it's now lining the casino owner's pockets. 

In any case I do agree that the practice of killing everyone, even those who have not yet earned their button is not ideal and we should be aiming for something better. It's a source of regret for me that of the three wars I've had a hand in organising it's often escalated to the killing of non-made men. I suppose with Chicago it always seemed likely to go that way even in the best case scenario, and the best case scenario it certainly was not. However with both Philadelphia and Ballard there was active effort and planning put in to avoid the killing of wise guys. However as a wise man once said "everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth," and once the bullets started flying it became difficult if not impossible to avoid, which brings me to my point.

I think that the dearth of extremely accurate, experienced hitters we have at the moment means wars inevitably end up involving those who are not yet made. The clinical precision we've seen in the past in which every significant or dangerous figure within a city are removed within moments of each other has simply not been possible. And with dangerous made men, in some cases even crew leaders, left alive after the initial shooting there seems to be no option but to remove their support, at least those who are awake at the time. The alternative is to allow many more of our own people to be shot and there seems no good way of avoiding it. I'm hopeful that there will be no more wars in the near future, but I do think as we see hitters throughout our families become more experienced the need for wise guys to die in wars will steadily diminish.

I do also like your idea of small groups of the previous occupants being set up to slowly integrate and work with whoever takes over the city, although it would require a lot of good will from both sides, which is sometimes in short supply. With the right people though I think it could be very successful and would be interested to see someone try it out. 

As West says, we have tried, on both occasions recently, to avoid the unnecessary slaughtering of associates. Even with Chicago, we tried to reach a deal with some of the Chicago families who weren't directly affiliated to Pollo, however none took it and unfortunately we had to put them in the ground. That's life in this business and whilst our intentions have always been to leave as many Wise Guys and below standing as we can, this cannot come at the expense of our people's lives. 

Scorched earth leaves a mark on all of us and I would encourage associates to consider their futures in these types of scenarios. I don't ask my people to swear oaths until they make their bones. Any associate is free to leave The Grin Gang and find work elsewhere if they choose. They do not have to die in a futile attempt to prolong a certain defeat to satisfy me. Sure, it is nice to know that people are prepared to do that, but your loyalty to me ends at the death of either of us, I'd rather you survived.

As to adapting my policy in war scenarios, like everything else, people are slow to respond to change. They will think it is a trap or a violation of something or other, which is why the takeup on my project has been pretty low. However, given time and encourage, anything is possible. In the mob, wars were rare and the family survived the loss of the boss. I like that idea. 

Chuck appreciated West’s and Grin-07’s thoughts on the matter.

I’m not necessarily focussing on the most recent events; circumstances during a war are what they are and in this situation you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t I suppose.  A drawn-out war is much better to be completed as quickly as possible and choking off a supply of protection is prudent.  

Is it that instead of waiting until the end of the conflict to inform the public about the situation, contributes to things?  The unsponsored population is often in the dark about what has just happened and therefore take to the hills or the safest place of sanctuary?  Would a statement at the end of the first wave, when many things are at a slight lull, stating something along the lines of “Anyone unsponsored and below made found offering protection will be dealt with swiftly.  All others will be left unharmed.”

Conversely of course, the nature of the business can foster grudges, so anyone in Auchenshoogle staying alive and setting up their own gang might well draw the ire of the sons and daughters of the recently fallen who feel they only thought of their own self-interest.

The whole thing is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery in an enigma and since old habits die hard, it may never be something that comes to fruition.

It is a shame there is limited take-up on your offer Grin, it is entirely out of step with everything else people are used to so hopefully more see the benefits.  I suppose in a no-holds barred approach, the risk is that bloodlines who have traditionally been left on the sidelines due to trust issues could conceivably set up expecting you to stick up for them if they do look to cause trouble.