Quick question, why would people put hits on themselves? Why commit suicide by hitslist? 

Fair enough!

I can't help but notice that there have been a lot of changes to the hitlist recently. 

It seems as if the current 'targets' of those who like to hitlist have taken it very personally and decided that now is the time that the hitlist needs changing, as it's affecting them?

The hitlist has been much in the same for as long as I can remember, so I'm not sure why now it needs changing this much, just because the people getting hitlisted keep complaining about being hitlisted.

Do I think a new character should be able to place hits of 100's of millions on somebody? No. The problem isn't with the hitlist though, it's with how they've got access to such massive amounts of money, a few minutes/hours after being on a character.

Maybe the hitlisters aren't brand new characters though, and they've collectively earned the money they're using. In that case, they should be able to put up as many hits as they want, for whatever amount they can afford, anonymously or not.

In my experience, you only ever get hitlisted for massive amounts of money if you've taken it upon yourself to royally piss off some users. If you wanna act like a complete arsehole to people, expect to get put up on the hitlist, and when it happens, don't whine about it consistently because you don't like how the hitlist is now affecting you.

Having said that, the hitlist isn't perfect, and I do believe some aspect of it should be based on rank difference between hitlister and target, but that's not what is being changed. Limiting the amount of hits / amount of money on the hitlist is the wrong way to go in my opinion.

I am the most targeted person at the moment and have suggested 1 minor change only; you must have a gun to hitlist people. Do you think that is unreasonable? This suggestion is because that requirement applies to virtually every part of the game other than the hitlist and I have always thought it should be consistent. 

How it seems to you is therefore incorrect. I am capable of seeing beyond the end of my own face and actually support the idea that people can hitlist the leaders if they feel aggrieved. My comments in the Streets are in character and not reflective of me as a user because I can differentiate between the two. 

I'd appreciate it if you clarify your above comments. Whether I'm a complete arsehole is a matter of perspective, but I certainly haven't taken anything personally nor petitioned for any changes to be made other than the remark mentioned previously as to gun change. 

As to this change, seems reasonable to me and will probably only apply in a handful of scenarios anyway. 

I agree with the needing a gun thing, as I said, the hitlist isn't perfect.

My comments were not regarding anything that has been said in the streets, more so that whenever a hitlist happens, the topic of conversation in lounge seems to be either the people hitlisted, or their friends, complaining that it isn't fair that they're able to be hitlisted the way they are.

The fact you can see beyond the end of your own face is a matter of opinion. Were these issues not issues before you were being hitlisted? Or did you not care until it was you and yours that were on there?

How it seems to me is completely, 100%, correct. These changes have only come about because you and certain members of the city you run are the targets of the hits. They would not have come about if that wasn't the case (Squishy is free to correct me on this, in which case I'll retract this part.)

People have complained about being hitlisted before, but it comes with running a city sometimes. If you do things others don't like, or support those that do things others don't like, you might be targeted. Most don't consistently complain that it isn't fair, badgering the fact that there should be changes made now that they are the target. They get on with buying them off, and accept the fact that if they want to do what they want to do, they're going to make some enemies.

Small disclaimer. I'm not saying you specifically are the one complaining and badgering, but it is people that are now being affected by there being a hit on you or yours.

Whether you are a complete arsehole is definitely a matter of perspective. I haven't spoken to you nearly enough to judge whether you are or not. It was more a general comment about what to expect if you piss people off, act like an arsehole to them, or support those that do.

Chalk, you continue to make false statements based on your own false assumptions. You should correct yourself unless you're happy being known as a liar. 

Well, that is a top drawer retort to the points raised.

I am anything but a liar. I say it exactly how I see it, regardless of whether I like it or not.

If you would be so kind as to prove those statements false, rather than just saying they are, maybe I would be better able to know the situation?

Instead of just calling me a liar, which in itself makes you one, explain it?

The fact you can see beyond the end of your own face is a matter of opinion. 

I have an extensive track record of being objective regardless of my own position in the game. I regularly advocate for things that will be detrimental to me personally. It was something that was recognised when I was appointed head of the Player Commission to handle suggestions made by users. You can check through about 15 years of suggestions posts by me if you wish to attempt to disprove this.

Specific to this issue, I was and remain a supporter of people being able to hitlist whomever they want for whatever amount they want, even when I am specifically the target of those hits. This is obviously detrimental to me.

 These changes have only come about because you and certain members of the city you run are the targets of the hits. 

This suggests that Squishy codes in relation to the demands of the players and specifically who is being targeted. He denied this during the conversation yesterday. The much more logical reasoning behind changes currently is that the hitlist is infrequently used for anything more than offline shots. Now that it is being used, he is reviewing it. He said this in Lounge yesterday. The target of the hits are once again irrelevant, it is the fact it is being used at all which prompts the topics of conversation and subsequent changes. 

 Most don't consistently complain that it isn't fair, badgering the fact that there should be changes made now that they are the target.

As I am the target, this implies I have been consistently complaining and badgering that there should be changes made, neither of which are true.  

I'm not saying you specifically are the one complaining and badgering, but it is people that are now being affected by there being a hit on you or yours.

This is a caveat which refutes what you've already stated, where you state I had been doing these things as the target of the hits, which is what I correctly you on initially. If you don't think the comments you're making about me are true, which they are not, why are you defending your falsehoods, which I asked you already to clarify? All you need to state is that you were incorrect in assuming the target of the hit is personally affected and complaining for changes to be made as that is not true. 

I remember the Player Commission fondly. I was on it, and would love for it to be brought back. I commend your ability to look at things as if you are not involved. However, as I said, this was not an issue when previous people were targeted via the hitlist. You aren't the first. That was my point about it now just suddenly being an issue. Placing limits on what users are able to do in terms of displaying their distaste towards certain people isn't a good thing, in my opinion.

In terms to how Squishy codes, I'm not saying he codes to the demands of other users. However, if several users keep complaining about a specific feature, I'm sure that would have some bearing on the direction he would take a feature, as he regularly asks for opinions. In regards to what Squishy has said regarding this situation, I didn't know he had said that. So for my assumptions about that, I apologise.

You are the target of a lot of the hits, yes, however you are not the only target. There are also people with a vested interest in your character staying alive, these people may not be the literal target, however they are inadvertently, (or perhaps it is intentional, I don't know,) targets of these hits. I include them when I comment on the complaining and badgering. I think there may have been some crossed wires regarding this, which explains why you think I was talking specifically about you. This is why I was defending my words, as they aren't false. I believed I had clarified this already, by the following statement

I'm not saying you specifically are the one complaining and badgering, but it is people that are now being affected by there being a hit on you or yours.

This is part of the reason why I put targets in ' ' (in my first post), in an attempt to say it wasn't the literal people in the target field of the hitlist. If this wasn't clear enough, then I apologise, and I will attempt to make my points clearer in the future. I hope that explains why I can't state I was incorrect in assuming the target of the hit is complaining, as that's not what I was assuming. 

Chalk - what's happening with the hitlist is the exact same thing that happened with BG wacking.  Some, a small number of, individuals have found a function of the game that, if manipulated in a certain way, can be used for a purpose it wasn't originally intended for.

This, as is obvious, will lead to the function being reviewed.

The late Curtis once wack-backed on an MIA, as a Godfather, having put in a lot of time and effort into an account.  The WB feature was altered.  Nobody cried foul.  I remember thinking at the time that I could see both sides of this discussion.

This game is not, and never will be, finished.  It is constantly evolving and changing.

Grin-07 has had far more placed on him that I have.  I have made two suggestions, one of which was serious, about the hitlist, and took part in discussions.  That is all. 

Chalk, you are typical of the type of person on this game who convinces himself of a narrative that isn't real.  I accept that you are sincere; in your mind, people are in uproar, demanding changes, many discussions are taking place, many people are speaking out.  But it isn't reflected in reality.

It reminds me, if you'll allow me the indulgence of bringing myself into this discussion for a moment, of when I ask people  to name  something specific that I have said or done that makes them feel the way that allow themselves to feel about me.  

They never can.  Because they allow a narrative, a myth, in fact, to form in their minds instead of reality. 

That is what you have done, and you have made yourself look foolish because of it.  And not for the first, or even fifth time.  

I understand that the game will constantly be evolving, and so it should.

Could you maybe explain to me what the intended purpose of the hitlist is, and how what is currently happening is different to that?

Personally, I think the hitlist is there for a few purposes. 

• To kill offliners
• To express distaste towards leadership
• To entice someone to kill someone they wouldn't otherwise shoot at
• To waste the money of the targets

The difference I see with this and the WB'ing on an MIA, is that MIA's are a paid for feature, whereas hitlisting is not.

I don't know the ins and outs of the changes to WB'ing and what exact changes were made, so I can't make any further comparisons.

I never once said people were in uproar, or demanding changes. I merely stated that people affected by the hitlistings were consistently complaining and badgering. It's not a case of convincing myself of a narrative, it's saying what I see. I'm not the only one that has seen it, either.

The fact you have likened a discussion about a game feature to your game plight here shows your level of delusion knows no bounds, which is why you thinking I look foolish is so far down my priority list.

Chalk - certainly.  When the hit-list was set-up, it wasn't designed to pressurise a CL into not housing a bloodline.  Don't believe me?  Well, the Durden gang wasn't around then.  So, you know, well done for missing that.

In what world is hit-listing not paid for, but MIA is?  Do you think that someone petty'd until they got the billion dollars?

"The fact you have likened a discussion about a game feature to your game plight here shows your level of delusion knows no bounds, which is why you thinking I look foolish is so far down my priority list."

Yawn.  Deal with reality, it this bizarro nonsense.

Ok. So what was the original intention behind the hitlist?

I agree it wasn't made to pressurise a CL into not housing a bloodline. However is one of the uses not to hold people accountable for their actions? Not just CL's, but other users too, as they are sometimes just as unkillable to the regular user as a CL is.

I mean in the sense that a user pays for an MIA, and then dies for spending money. The user doesn't pay to be hitlisted, and then die from it, so it's a completely different scenario.

Unfortunately that statement is nothing but reality.

I think this is a good change .

It should make people think twice before placing hits on themselves to make themselves look important. 

It should also make people think before placing hits on their friends to  boost egos and make  them feel self important.

Sad to see it was used this way, quite abusive of a game feature. Those are the  only real reasons I can see for such a change.

Is this live Squishy?