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GAME CHANGE: Rebuild Mode Started by: Squishy on Aug 10, '20 17:04

We have altered the toggle for rebuild mode to 95% sponsor availability.  If it drops below this, the site will enter rebuild mode until it gets back above 95% sponsor availability.

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Is there a reason for this change? Have many users been dying because they could not join a crew?

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The suggestion thread suggesting to lower it to 75% really got me putting a lot of thought into it.  In an ideal world, the game would be broken 0% of the time, but as a 'meet in the middle', we set it to allow the job board to be empty at most 5% of the time.

Anything less than 100% causes a break in the flow of how things are supposed to go with new characters, but I understand there are some trust issues with uppers not wanting to give the responsibilities and the income from associates to the sponsors, so it may be unrealistic to expect full coverage, but at 95% it means that we can have up to 72 minutes a day where there are no crews willing to deal with new members.

Again, at any time that the uppers wish for me to edit the flow of new characters, we can take over this process if the site is unable to have a sponsor on to cover any gap greater than 72 minutes throughout the day.

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Part of it truly comes down to this Squishy:

 

Are you sure you want to ASSIGN xxxxx AS A SPONSOR? I also agree that I will take full responsibility for this persons past present and future actions, and that my account may be tied to theirs if problems arise. I certify that all upper structure has been informed of this and also agrees. I certify that I myself have personally fully trained this person and they are fully informed of their responsibilities.

 

I had to ask a friend from the Real world to sign up again as my RHM, because this is an online game, and there is literally no one I would trust online that I have not met in real life and associated with in real life. The fact that My Character and that of my two hands are at risk because of the past actions of a potential sponsor, actions possibly taken prior to joining my crew, means that I will never entrust sponsorship to someone in my crew except to a handful of individuals who I know and trust. Its one of the reasons I have so few crew members, I just can't be online 24/7 and my hands are both european like myself, that and the vast majority of people I message either do not want to be in a crew at present or just don't respond to my messages. 

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Duggee I get your over abundance of caution, I really do.  That is in there as a reminder that there has to be some form of sanity on the uppers part on who they chose to represent the crew.  That friend who creeps on women and you received 3 complaints about, yeah, dont make him a sponsor.  That guy thats duped 4 times before that you knew about, yeah, dont let him represent your crew.  The person who you see being racist on lounge, yeaaaaah thats a no go.  These are realistic examples so that at the end of the day, if you *knowingly and willingly* put people into the position of power that may break the rules again, you can't act shocked when you get called out for it.

Find someone who isn't a hothead, train them, and let them represent the good values of your crew and pay them handsomely with the money that the game earmarks for the sponsors.  If you don't trust any of your members in that capacity, then please dont stand in the way of other crews that do want to have sponsors.

Thats the great thing about this, to get to 95%, you literally have to do nothing - the only thing you have to do is not stand in the way of someone who wants sponsors.

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Duggee brings up an interesting point in that there are now a substantial subset of players who are now actively shunning the practice of giving lesser known bloodlines the opportunity to participate in any form of responsibility beyond normal membership of a crew - sponsors, hands or otherwise.

The hypotheticals you've described are all rule violations that should result in the death of the offending member, which includes a loss of income and participation from that user in a crewleader's family.  I have no disagreement in dropping the hammer on people who knowingly/willingly enable abuse or are indifferent to it in their operations; those that sit idly by while abuse occurs are in some ways worse than the people committing the infractions. Though there are some, the pool of offenders do not stop at ones who have a history of repeating their mistakes, and even still, this particular structure disincentivizes people to give these users a second chance in a game that only has so many players, and that consists of a player base that is already notorious for holding grudges through somebody's bloodline.  

Barring those who knowingly enable this behavior, there is no other game that I can think of that punishes other users in an administrative function in the enforcement of their rules for actions that are solely those of the people who commit those offenses; we wouldn't go after a car company or their dealership as an accessory if someone decided to go on a rampage with their minivan. 


But this is a separate conversation.


Universal coverage is a good thing and this is a welcome change.

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I have no problem with anyone else who has sponsors and trusts people to be sponsors. The Problem is at the moment, we have two groups, those in power, and those not. How easy would it be for one of those placing the hits to go incog, join my crew, and be the best damned crew member I have. Literally knocking it out of the park. Really active, joining in crew chat and competitions, volunteering to help out with everything and being generous with their money. They work their way up, and become a sponsor as a reward for their hard work, only to deliberately set out to break the game rules, get an Admin DD/Jail and have my whole upper structure taken down with them?

I can't demand proof of who they say they are. I can't ask them to use 3rd party apps or trackers, so all I have to go on is my interaction with them in game. And there in lies the rub, 90% of what I use in real life to assess someone as trustworthy is not available to me online.

So, this brings me to the situation I outlined in my original post. So if I have this issue, I know I'm not alone. So if 20 or 25% of the current CLs don't have people they can trust to be sponsors and not shaft them deliberately, then we will automatically end up in a situation where the game is perpetually in rebuild mode because no one trusts anyone enough to risk the hours they have spent on their character and the rest of the CLs just can't staff the job board to 95% of the day, and despite the fact that there are 200+ available spots for perhaps only 30 possible recruits.

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They work their way up, and become a sponsor as a reward for their hard work, only to deliberately set out to break the game rules, get an Admin DD/Jail and have my whole upper structure taken down with them?

In your example, why would your whole upper structure be taken down with them?  Out of the thousands of characters that have been sponsors helping the tens of thousands of associates, how often has this happened?  I don't fear space debris falling on me, but I guess over a long enough time period it may happen.  But I don't let it cripple my life.

A sponsor is a sponsor, they are just members that you pay the associates taxes to that are the main point of contact for new players.  They are teachers and social butterflies that grow your family.  You only get in trouble when you knowingly and willingly ignore problems.

But if your members are not to be deemed trustworthy, thats OK, thats your choice.  Just please don't stand in the way of other crews/new crews electing to have sponsors.

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Just please don't stand in the way of other crews/new crews electing to have sponsors.

Where have I tried to do this? Where have I suggested that I would do this. I have gone on record saying that I have no problem with the sponsor system  or crews that want to use sponsors. My issue is that I am not prepared to entrust my hard work to someone I don't know.

 

 In your example, why would your whole upper structure be taken down with them?

I don't know, perhaps being DDed by admin 4+ times in the last 2 years for 'crimes' I did not commit myself and had no knowledge of has coloured my vision. I've also been admin jailed for the actions of a 3rd party that I had no knowledge of and no control over.

If I break the rules, by all means kill me. If one of my members breaks the rules, by all means kill them. If one of my members is a complete dick, and someone brings their rule breaking to my attention and I do nothing, then yeah kill me. But don't kill me for the actions of a third party that I have no knowledge of and then expect me to hand out power of life and death over my character to every Tom, Dick and Harry who is in my crew. 

In the past I have championed the position of Sponsor, and suggested changes to give them more power. I've also granted Sponsor status to every Made Man or Higher ranked person in my family before, as I believe if you are trusted enough to be Made you should be trusted enough to be a Sponsor. Its just hard to offer this level of trust now with so much on the line.

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Lets take a step back Duggee. 

In your example, why would your whole upper structure be taken down with them?  Out of the thousands of characters that have been sponsors helping the tens of thousands of associates, how often has this happened?  I don't fear space debris falling on me, but I guess over a long enough time period it may happen.  But I don't let it cripple my life.

Your answer doesn't seem to be about this.  Are you saying you were killed 4 times because of your sponsors?  Mind walking me through your answer again? How often has this happened?  The only time I can recall that uppers have ever been penalized for sponsors is because of constant over and over and over and over and over no-contacts.  I fully admit my memory isn't what it used to be, so please correct me if you were killed 4 times because of your sponsors.

 

Where have I tried to do this? Where have I suggested that I would do this. I have gone on record saying that I have no problem with the sponsor system  or crews that want to use sponsors. My issue is that I am not prepared to entrust my hard work to someone I don't know.

I don't know, who is claiming you are trying to do it?  Man, its like we are on two total opposite sides of the words, each of us taking it different ways.  My goal is simple, I want to make the new character flow to only be broken 72 minutes a day rather than 144 minutes a day.  I'm confused as to why this requires a debate about unrelated things.  I would like to have 0 minutes, you seem combative that I lowered it from 144 to 72.  All I ask is that we try to get as close to 0 as possible so that I do not have to change the way things are done which would result in people whining and crying that they don't have 100% say over new characters and who can house them.

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Never mind Squishy, I doubt we are ever likely to see eye to eye on this issue. My suggestion at this point would be to make joining a crew automated. Similar to Cromwell's suggestion. Keep the crimes, but allow the newbies to join any family they wish with online sponsors that isn't full and assign them a sponsor based on the last active sponsor in that family. If either party is unhappy with that arrangement, they can simply leave and join another family, or be dropped and join another family. At least that way all new players will find themselves engaged at all times of the day and night, and the responsibility of retaining new players will not be based on someone remembering to switch on their sponsor link.

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