Cant, you tell I dont have any bodyguads haha, ok well I think it should be adjusted so that what ever the single fair is the flight is times the amount of bodyguards you have. Not just add a few thousand.

Mrs-Doubtfire... I'm not moaning, I'm saying leaving it the fuck alone. If the coders are only going to change it so that those with bg's that can't fund it feel it even more what's the point? The imbalance is because of stagnancy and lack of change. Change is required for this game not to get to the point of moaners to come out and complain.

Since you don't like a reset because people who have worked so hard lose their accounts in an instant why not take wackback out of the game? What's the point? Punish those who wack because they actually put forth the effort to train?

You want to see it one way but not the whole way. The point of the mafia is to get to the top and keep going until you're gone. In real life mafia if a Godfather got bumped off by his Don's then who cares? Here, it causes bad blood. Or a rogue that just ups and moves to another city to do business? No one would give two shits as long as they didn't fuck up business for their leader.

But here, we have so many rules put forth by players that it makes it less than mafia like. Hell, veteran MR players have even said "I don't need the streets anymore, I use to care but why should I. I've earned the right to not have to care." Really? That's what the game has come to? That user is someone that works very closely with you on a daily basis.

This game, coders and owners will admit was never meant for accounts to live for years hell even 6 months. It's meant to have rotations in power, but if you're going to make it so people are easier to kill why not at least go as far to take out wackback, or put back in wackback default kills 50 bgs if all rolls fail. But see, that GREAT idea was taken out because the same person I referenced just now, complained over it.

So, how about this, since there's now over 6000 bgs at least in the game, even though the effectiveness is at 10000 at the moment. Put the default 50 bg save so those who actually put forth effort to train collosal guns at least dont feel the effects of a bullshit feature in the game. Keeps it in play, but it also makes those who want enough bgs to prove themselves. Plus you want to live forever anyway. Win, fucking, win. Hands down. Drawback? None, if you dont earn bgs why should you get to benefit? Work your way up and earn shit for yourself. Done.

Since you don't like a reset because people who have worked so hard lose their accounts in an instant why not take wackback out of the game? What's the point? Punish those who wack because they actually put forth the effort to train?

You want to see it one way but not the whole way.

How am I wanting to see it one way and not the other? ALL hitters know the risk of shooting. It equals in a few wackbacks and possibly death. You can't even put Reset and Wackback into the same subject because its completely different. If someone wackbacks then its unlucky.. theres nothing you can do. If EVERYONE dies through a reset then thats just unfair because one person has pressed the big red button and reset EVERYONE'S hard work.

As for the rest of what you said.. I didn't understand a word. Now.. I have no more time for this stupid debate. Bye.

Too much testosterone flowing in this thread. A reset is a horrible idea. Absolut, the BG degredation keeps me from buying 1000 BGs on 1 JAN 2010 and never training them again, but still having the effectiveness of 200 BGs...which was a strategic long term investment, you see. Resetting the game does not solve this, BG degredation does. 

My point was we are slowly making the game less and less strategic. There was a huge perk to those not dipping below 20. Like you kind of touched base on doogle. If you have 150 bgs but only train 125 of them to full health when people go to bg wack you they think they do a fair amount of damage but they're not. Although its aggrevating its strategy. However the more people complain the less and less remains a mystery. That's what made this game great the unpredictable outcomes and strategies. My point of the reset was only that it seems this is yet another way to shut up the moaners over the mass amounts of bgs etc. So like I proposed, bring back the 50 bg wackback save. It preserves accounts and takes bgs out of the game in bulk. It's a great idea in all reality. Think about it this was, at the moment 50 bgs cost about $60 irl after you sell them on the marketplace. Would it not be worth that money to have a for sure save? And I know some are thinking "I can't afford that." But in every crew I've been in, if you work hard and train a gun you get bged eventually, so put in work.

$60 per save? Way to favour those with real money to invest! I preferred the idea of it being a % of bgs that you lose, that way it doesn't only favour those who can afford mass bodyguards with real money.

As for the tactic you mentioned of not training 25 of your bodyguards, you can still do that but now they drop to 1hp so not really sure on your point there? Either way, this is a good way of ensuring that people don't just buy bgs and leave them sitting at 20hp.I like it!

Stopping at 20hp is a perk? Yes, absolutely. "Overwhelmingly broken, balance wise?" Yes, absolutely. Being a "perk" doesn't mean something is good. "Every time he does a petty, rofldog gets +10 kills to his gun" would be a handy little perk for me. That's not to say it's a good idea. The proper question is not whether something "is a perk" but instead "what effect is this feature going to have/having on the site?"

As for a 50 bg wackback save, why?

The effect it would have would be that big accounts never again have to fear death so they can keep training guns forever. At present, they usually stop at some point. I don't actually understand that, since wb death has been lowered so much that it's nothing more than a cruel joke, but I guess many people are more risk averse than I. But in any case, I don't understand why someone who is complaining about "stagnancy" would want to remove that at all. Stagnancy is a result of big accounts being able to say "silly bitch, your weapons cannot harm me! Don't you know who the fuck I am, I'm the Juggernaut!" And then swat them away. Putting in an absolute bar to death wackbacks ends any limit to the strength of that swat when it comes. The last thing we need is monstrous accounts being even more obscene due to even less tradeoffs in the game. Tradeoffs are good.

If anything, wackbacks should have their frequency increased back up to their two-years-ago levels of around one in four hundred. The only argument I can think of against that is "but then people will be statistically more likely to die trying than be able to shoot through anyone's bgs!" The problem with this argument is that with defenses at their current levels, anyone trying is already going to die trying before getting to that point. It will just mean getting shot in the face instead of a gun blowing up in their face. When it takes 500+ kills to do anything whatsoever, someone can wait for months on end before doing a preemptive strike and never be in danger. There's no ability to hide what you're doing anymore, between the massive number of kills required for anything and NPMs spitting all your WSs straight up to bosses who can keep track of them. So why not set some real fear of death by lightning strike in accounts?

As a more general comment, when I look around I don't see any lack of people on this site who are willing to shake things up and end the stagnation. I see a whole ton of people who are putting in a whole ton of work hoping that some day they'll be able to shake things up. They're all stuck chasing that dream like a carriage-horse with a carrot dangling in front of it. No matter how long they trudge onward, it stays just out of reach. The only time it comes within reach is when the guy holding the rod lets them get a nibble. Every once in a while, the guy holding the rod passes it off to his friend, who keeps the charade going. When you have that situation the problem is an imbalance in the game somewhere.

Alright, DeadlySin. I can agree the $60 fee can be a favor for those with wallets. However, let's face facts here. This is a FREE game, but also you have to realize it costs money to upkeep. Those who play this game, according to the rules, are to be of 18 or older or have permission from their guardian.

So if someone is 18 or older and doesn't want to throw $60 into the game, or doesn't have a job why should everyone suffer? Now I'm not saying people don't have struggles and other real life obligations, but I've also heard the same people talk about how they don't have $60 but then say they spend so much time in the bars/pubs things like that. So then what? Maybe I'm addicted to mafiareturns? Why should I be punished because of other people's lives. By making it an option to all, it's fair game. Anyone can get a job, save up some cash and throw it in the game. Although this is a battle that can't be won because people can't accept that sometimes not everything can be completely fair as in annual income IRL. Which, you obviously sit nice and heavily bged from your friends help, so where are mine? I mean I work hard, but I don't have my bgs so why can't I help my CL and pay for my own and get the extra perk since I'm actually helping sustain this site/company, maybe not completely but I'm still helping.

Next point, rofldog I don't doubt what you've said, but at the same I do. I mean people do pour tons of money into the game, thousands of hours into accounts. You say it's good to see wackbacks because it takes big accounts out of the game, but I would venture to guess you've never lost a 500+ kill Godfather account to a wackback considering only two people have actually rolled wackback death so far, as memory serves me. So can you really speak justly on the matter? I mean, yeah it would help keep accounts up there, but the accounts you're saying are trying so hard to get to that point and it takes months don't get there. Well this would ensure it. It would pump more money into the game, more perks as in advertising, more users and more ammenties. Meanwhile people would be able to not have to fear it if they have friends to help BG them or they pay the roughly $60.

I know it's kind off an unfair thing. But in reality it's a huge gain for the site. I've seen countless good hitters who just get impatient or the wackback. I mean no one likes stagnancy, and this site was NOT built to handle accounts with 200 bodyguards, 800 kills and 6 Godfathers across the cities. However, throw in someone with some balls to throw cash in. Get themselves bgs, get a nice little 800-1000 kill gun because they know they won't wackback. It shakes things up, adds excitement, put's the real rogue aspect back into it.

I remember when rogues would go on three day long terrors tearing cities apart. Now a rogue gets one, maybe two shots. Things like this take the aspects of the un-thinkable out of the game. When you can allow anyone to get to the top and seize power it's crazy. Now it takes ranking, networking, getting a crew, getting Godfather, building a city, getting people to train long enough.... months upon months to MAYBE have a chance to do something. Which should be that way too. However new mob bosses always popped up, new people always took out those and said "Fuck this, you're dying and I'm taking over." with some brass balls and did it.

Now you have to pretty much play by rules; a,b,c,d,e.... etc. So many rules for a world that is based off the freedom to do what you want, but everyone is afraid that maybe if someone doesn't fear wackback, they'll train a tank and drop everyone. Which is fair, but it's the what if. It adds more to the game, it makes it DIFFERENT and the perk is ANYONE can do it.

There's no excuse as to why someone can't come up with $60 if they're a grown adult whose actively working. Hindering those who do put money into enjoying the game is selfish. Considering by opening the door to it ANYONE can do it.

lol.  Absolut, rofldog hit a 1% gun WB, followed by a GF 1%ing him, when he was a GF.  So I'm fairly sure he knows the downsides of rare math.

And yes, the game wasn't built to handle 6 godfathers.  It was built to handle 8.

Which, you obviously sit nice and heavily bged from your friends help

since I'm actually helping sustain this site/company

First off, complete bullshit! Get your head out of your arse! I love the way you assume you know everything about me. I'm not going to disclose to you whether or not I do donate to this site, because frankly that's none of your business and should NEVER be used as an argument to add in a feature.

To be honest, after reading your response I can't even be bothered to argue against most of what you said. All I hear is you saying "Let me pay money to have a super account". Not gonna happen. Not in a million years. Let me run through the figures;

If someone wacks back 1 time on their account that's (assuming 400k per credit, and they take a demotion to thug to replace said bodyguards) 93.75 credits (around 78 dollars) they need to sell. Now imagine you're a Don Crewleader who loses 50 bodyguards... Again assuming credit price to be 400k would cost said Don 656.25 credits (at least 499 dollars), same again with a Godfather account and you're talking 718.75 credits (around 533 dollars). Now imagine they wackback more than just that one time... turning a bit ridiculous with those costs, isn't it? Regardless of all your other arguments, this really DOES only favour those with big wallets, not your average joe. If people are pumping even more real money into their accounts, they will be even less inclined to throw them away in the 'rogue' fashion.

The last point I will address is this;

However new mob bosses always popped up, new people always took out those and said "Fuck this, you're dying and I'm taking over." with some brass balls and did it.

Didn't that happen no more than 5 days ago? Sure that person was removed the next day but it kinda proves the point that it's people's mindsets alone that stop them from taking action, nothing more.