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Where do you draw that line? Started by: Gaius on May 12, '11 08:37

Gaius sat on his high back leather chair, admiring the night life that moved about some 20 stories below his penthouse suite at the Desert Palms.

Reaching into his pocket he pulled out a pack of cowboy killers. Opening the box he sighed as he drew out the last, once again he was out of smokes. Perhaps he should do something about that, he was the most powerful man in Las Vegas after all. Seems someone should be looking to his cigarette situation a bit more. He chuckled to himself. No, he would go down the elevator and get another pack himself like any other person. He didn't need someone to shine his shoe's, or wipe his ass so why was this any different. Sure time was valuable, but it wasn't like he was the queen or anything.

Striking a match on his boot, a blue fog began to cover the darkened room. As Gaius smoked he thought about friendships and what they meant. Young mafioso were taught to trust no one but their family, their city, and their Godfather. But who are the Godfathers to trust? Gaius smirked as he answered his own question.


No one.

Standing up he walked out of his suite, stepped on the elevator and began the journey to the exit. The maze of slot machines, and dealers tables on the casino floor was a masterpiece. More seats in less space means a higher profit, and Gaius loved his dollar signs. If it couldn't be killed it was bought, if it couldn't be bought it was stolen.

Walking outside, the cool air hit him, and a smile broke out across the old man's face. He nodded to his head of security who immediately pulled a thompson sub machinegun from his trenchcoat and fired two rapid bursts into the air. Plenty of immediate attention for his boss.


Greetings. I've come to talk about something that has been on my mind for the last several weeks. Friendship in our line of work.

From birth were taught to trust no one but your family. To start with, it actually works, until your family name is many generations in. If your bloodline has done its due diligence there aren't too many enemies and things are moving right along. But then we all begin to mature as our fathers did. Growing as mafioso in rank, money and power, we begin to acquire more friendships. More individuals that enjoy our company. Different friends with different motives. Sometimes those friendships break and dissolve as if they were dust on the horizon. Other times they become as reliable as stone and remain forever.

We see ourselves in an ever changing world, where the pressures on a man and his interests increase at an alarming rate. Do our friendships also change? Those whose bloodlines are entwined for generators begin to falter for one reason or another. All of a sudden the man that you would die for turns on you, begins to fight against you and everything you believe in. For what? Power, money, guns... the basics.

Thats why when a true friendship, a true bond is found. It must be cherished and loved by the ones who share it. Not thrown away on petty bullshit or fantasies that others have concocted out of thin air.

Gaius walks over to the marble statue of his father that stood at the front of his casino and places a hand on the statue's foot.

Some people change. Generations change. Some who were peaceful become frustrated and violent. Some that were violent begin to see the profitability in peace. We are taken from extreme lows to all time highs on a daily basis. Through it all we work together and through it all we need people we can rely on. How deep do your friendships lie? Have they been battle hardened and proven? What does it take for you to trust? Where do you draw that line?

Leaning against the base of the statue Gaius flicked his cigarette in the gutter and replaced it with another freshly lit cowboy killer.

I am curious to know where different people make their own lines.

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The proof is in the pudding sir, we all have many aquaintences spanning generations but its not until the shit hits the fan that you really find who is who. As with all things in life you have to sift through the crap to find that gem and there are a few around admittedly there is a lot of crap to sift through. First and foremost the only one you can truelly rely on is yourself everything else is a bonus, money and power corrupts even the most loyal of people and the few it doesn't i class as brothers as well as friends these are people with true values people that would die for you no questions asked as i would them, the point is there are a few out there it just takes time to find out who they are.

The Guv tips his hat to Gaius, good day sir!

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MrVengeance pulls himself away from the dealers table, where he spends most of his time these days, to listen to Don Gaius speak


I get what your saying here, and I guess lots of people draw different lines in this world. Me, personally, well my family has been around a while now. They took a long vacation in between then and now but the fact still remains, some friends will be so forever. However in saying this I believe the first and foremost of importance is that of your family and city. That is where bonds must be formed, that's the key to the family, and the cities survival.


My family, even not all that long ago, forged many good friends, along with some old ones. These are bonds that will never be broken. 


Now I am here, and their Sons, and sons sons are here, maybe in different cities. That bond is still there, but the main thing now is your City, your Family, that is where the new bonds have to be built. I think my old friends in other cities would agree, we might not talk for a week, a month, or even a year but that bond will never die, I think they would also agree with my point that the important thing now is where you are at this moment, your city.


I would even go as far to say, that I believe they would understand, as do I, that if it came down to a war, I would have no choice nor they, of taking each other out. When im here, as my closest friends are, they are here for there family and there city. That is whats important, and as long as the generations of friendships down the line understand that, then that bond will stay intact, after all...its only business

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Alabama listens intently to Vengeful man speak.

"I would even go as far to say, that I believe they would understand, as do I, that if it came down to a war, I would have no choice nor they, of taking each other out. When im here, as my closest friends are, they are here for there family and there city. That is whats important, and as long as the generations of friendships down the line understand that, then that bond will stay intact, after all...its only business"

Couldn't agree more. I believe our family have crossed paths on many occasions, and only seldom have they actually be in the same city together. This has never meant that my family dont regard you as a friend, the bond has always been there and quite rightly always will be. But my family and city will always come first regardless of how strong a bond I hold with someone.

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You keep your friends close to your heart. But you keep your crew,  and your city much much closer.

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Let me give you an example.

I know a bloodline of a girl who I have always liked and admired. It is rare we are ever on the same side and our blood lines have always ended up in the same roles on opposite sides.

Each time my blood line has died and she would have known about it sure its a gutter, its only natural to be pissed but you move on and the lines stay close.

Each time her blood line has died and I have been involved her blood line is boiling and I get torrents of abuse, not much contact and then the lines move on.


I wonder what happened to that blood line it hasnt spoken to me that much........


If you can't distinguish between bloodline friendships and family then you shouldn't be getting your button period. Pretty much every blood line I know well in this game know they will get jack shit out of me when it comes to my family and I would expect to get jack shit out of them. I may try and get something but in truth I don't expect to.

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LoveGun was minding her own business, terrorizing Mr. Forest Shetter with all sort of question about slot machines. She had just asked him if there were tiny men inside each machine who gave you gold if you lined up all three cherries, but before he was able to reply the sound of gun shots rushed through the casino.

Instinctively LoveGun pulled out her short sword, ready for the attackers. Mr. Forest Shetter nudged her and pointed to the crowd that was forming. LoveGun sheathed her sword and approached the gathering. Instantly, she noticed the Godfather of Vegas and listened to what he had to say.

Friendships be ly'n as carbunculously deep as th' sea an' other times they be ly'n as shallow as a tide pool.

LoveGun sighed at the thought of the ocean. Oh, how she missed it. She was pulled out of the memory quickly by a elbow in her rib, LoveGun gave Mr. Forest Shetter the stink eye and got back to business.

Once upon a long time ago, I had two bucko an' th' three o' us, we were unstoppable. Our loyalty fer each other ran blastedly thick through our veins. Viscous words spat from our mouths at whatere abroadside force threatened us. Me uncle be callin' us th' three musketeers.

Until one day wh'n it be all torn apart. This nancy pants of a day will fore'er sit in me mind, a lost memory, but nay properly lost. One musketeer turned on th' other two an' attempted t' blow th' life out o' all their relationships. Th' friendship went from th' wall o' china t' a crumbled mess.

I be a child then an' didn't understand what had happened, but now, years later, it all makes sense. I understand now.

LoveGun lost herself there for a moment, lost herself deep inside her head.

Ye e'er head that say'n, ye can't love someone until ye love yourself. Same goes fer a lot o' things, such as respect. Can ye respect others if ye don't respect yourself?

I'll be cuttin' to th' chase. Her voice a little more sullen then before.If a friend does nay be want'n t' go th' extra mile anymore that's where I be drawin' th' line.

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Ozan steps up and lights a cigarette. After a small nod to the gathered crowd he clears his throath and starts to speak.

Hmmm...

You say people change. True!
BUT...
...they change for a reason.

And LoveGun speaks of respect.
I think that's what it's all about.

I believe that friendships are mostly built on respect. But respect has to come from both sides of course and when one side decides to not respect the other side (for whatever reason) anymore, he/she cannot expect to get that same amount of respect anymore, right?

People act and react. When you are disrespected and treated accordingly by someone who you used to call a (good, even close) friend, it's completely human to react in the same way. Losing a friend like that is absolutely futile then, as they were never worth being a friend at all!

After saying this Ozan lights another cigarette and vanishes into the crowd


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Looking through some old photos, Jimmy sat at his desk in his HQ throwing the photos into a wooden box as he went through them. His gun to his left, and a drink and some playing cards sat to his right, next to a lamp. Jimmy reached over turning the lamp on..looking closely as one of the photos as he smiled widely and laughed a bit


Like a lot of mobsters walking our streets here, my family line goes back a long time and has seen many things that you would usually hear people say is 'impossible'. We have seen every walk turn on eachother for different reasons, entire cities crushed and empires started and sometimes it was something you least expected - it has happened before and will happen again as our world consists of change and politics are involved in every action made, and we all know how politics sometimes end up..


Jimmy looked through a few more photos.. some of him gambling winning millions, and some of him with beautiful big breasted women who he enjoyed many vacations with across the nation


We all have a gut instinct, we can feel our actions and assume the consequences and sometimes it is a learning experience for next time, as when you choose friends over family often it leads to death. It is hard, pointing the gun towards a friend and pulling the trigger but I want my family to eat and I will be damned if they are going to struggle while someone else is living lavish, but the loyalties run different with everyone based on their raising and sometimes lack of understanding of our rules and concepts.


Everyone wants the same thing, its just a damn bumpy road and sometimes pain equals pleasure and you have to hurt those you care about because you have no choice. We live in a profession that takes lives, and we must be strong enough to make that decision based off business - not emotions.

As a long time friend Sal_Giaquinto quoted to me once "In this business you gotta use your head, not your heart".


Jimmy threw the rest of the pictures in the box and closed it up.. turning the lamp off, grabbing his gun and walking out of his office slamming the door

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I agree with Jimmy, when he states that drawing the line comes down to your own perception based on our understanding of the rules and concepts in our society.

For me, trust is a mutual relationship and a bond between people that is uncontrollable. My trust lies in allies that have proven themselves in their bloodlines over countless generations; and through that they learn to trust me as an ally. As MrVengeance stated, this life of ours is just business- in war there doesn't need to be a personal vendetta against friends; only the choice is your own on how you take war- which is another subject entirely.

Finally, Family always comes first. This is stressed through and through to all the young blood. "Take your time choosing your future, because you can't rub out your mistakes."

We all work for our families, who were there from the beginning and took us in and provided for us so we could find our feet. They already provided their trust by taking us under their wing. Any other allies we may have, regardless of how long a bloodline has fought side by side, have need to understand that our loyalties reside in the here and now, in our cities and families. After all, our family is the vessel of unity by which we all progress together for the common goal.

You may put your unhindered trust in a friend, but I draw the line when family duties call... because that is my priority.

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Shaggs joins Gaius, offering him a cigar and lighting his own. After taking a deep swig of whiskey and staring for a few seconds in contemplation he finally has his answer.

Friendships come and go, but to me there are a few kinds of friendships in this thing of ours. The first is the person who is there when you can do something for them. When you are in a position of power it is amazing how many "friends" come flocking to you. These are the people that will lead to your downfall if you place you trust in them. They are only there to take advantage of you and use you for their own personal gain. We see these types of people pop up far too often in this way of life we've all come to love.

Shaggs takes a deep breath and continues

The next type of friend is the generational friend. These are the types of people who will always treat you with the same kindness and loyalty whether your line is a Godfather or a Gangster. While you might not always work closely with them, they are still your friends. These are the types of relationships that develop over generations of working together or growth through the use of coffeeshops.

There is one more type of friend that is different than all the others. I have always referred to this as the Ride Until Death friends. These friends would go to hell and back with you and you would do the same for them. These friendships are put through the fire, battle tested and hardened through tough times and fighting. These are the types of friendships that make generations keep coming back to work with each other because they know at a drop of a hat, their friend will be there to help them no matter what. These friends are few and far between, but when you find them, they will never leave your side and you will never leave theirs. These are the people who you can truly trust. There are not many, but they are some of the only people besides yourself that you can rely on.

After offering his two cents Shaggs takes another swig and offers Caius a brand new silver flask

Here you go Boss, it's my new recipe

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Mrs-Doubtfire sits in her car listening to the debate. She smiles and looks into the wind mirror of her car. She adjusts her wig and glasses and continues to smile. She opens the door to her car and steps out, locking it behind her. She slowly steps through the crowd towards the front to speak her mind. She politely asks a large man stood in front of her to move aside so she can pass. He turns around and tells her no. To this reaction she frowns and looks up at the guy.

I said Excuse me dear. Now if you aren't going to move then I'm afraid I'm going to have to move you myself.

The man laughs at her and turns back around to face the front. She adjusts the sleeves on her top and pushes her wig up a little. Then she taps on the guys shoulder and he turns around. As he turns she smacks the bloke in the balls with her handbag and then as he drops she punches him across the face. While the man is down on the floor she looks at him and smiles. She then steps over him and continues to the front.

When do I draw that line? Well as my friend Jimmy and my associate The_Messiah have said. It all comes down to ones perception. When do I decide to start trusting someone? Well thats another thing.

If our ancestors have shared a past then it is easier to trust their kin. However our paths haven't crossed before then gaining my trust in this lifetime is certainly a job. My ancestors have been walked over or betrayed by others a few times and I am not willing to let that happen this time. As Shaggs stated..

When you are in a position of power it is amazing how many "friends" come flocking to you. These are the people that will lead to your downfall if you place you trust in them. They are only there to take advantage of you and use you for their own personal gain. We see these types of people pop up far too often in this way of life we've all come to love.



My ancestors have been around long enough for me to read their journals and know who those people are. They have been in the power position enough times for me to define quite a lot of them. Those people I shall never trust fully.. I can trust them to an extent if they were to be with me but not completely. Once you break someone's trust.. you can never be completely trust again. If trusted at all again. Once a liar, traitor or snitch.. Always a liar, traitor or snitch.

I am not going to define how you gain my trust as that is for me to know and you to find out. However those who I do have very close bonds with and are extremely close and our ancestors have been through thick and thin whether it on the same side or opposite I can safely say know that.. Its business and Not personal.

The main thing with the friendship and the position I draw that line are those friends that will always welcome my blood and I will always welcome theirs no matter what has happened in the past. Up until that point.. I don't draw the line of complete trustworthy. One thing I can say about those friends.. I have a couple of them and its nice to have them at my side and I am sure they are grateful for me being at their sides also.

She takes a quick breath and smiles.

Anyone can have a sudden change of heart when put in certain positions.. whether it be be money, power or something else. But those friends that will stick by you through thick, thin, life or death are the ones you can call 'friends'. Without friends or family in this life you are nothing. Family always come first thats without a doubt, but to live and be happy... You need both. Also.. I am a strong believer in the most trustworthy person you'll ever know is...... Yourself.

With that said she smiles and pushes her glasses back up her face. She smiles at the people who are listening and nods her head in appreciation for their time. She then slowly walks over towards her car and steps over that bloke who she hit earlier again as he still rolls around on the floor in agony. She opens her car door and sits inside and opens a carton of pop and begins to drink it.

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Standing listening to the various contributions, Gaius had worked his way through a couple of cowboy killers and a few good nips from his new silver flask. His eyes nearly pop out at the taste and he stares at Shaggs' mischievous grin. Fighting for composure, he listened intently to what everyone had to say before responding.

Thank you all for such considered responses. It is very encouraging to see such esteemed mobsters take time to speak about this subject at such length.

The_Guvnor makes a good point about the searching, that it takes time simply to find the quality gem in the mass of people we encounter. Its a good thing to keep in mind as we meet and deal with so many along the way. These gems become true family yes but as MrVengeance-, Alabama and Falcon then pointed out, even with such bonds we all sign the same pages, take the same oaths. Even the longest standing friendships and family bonds understand that current family and city loyalties come first. Its not personal, its the nature of this thing of ours. In the end I think Cest_La_Vie summed it up very well in saying "If you can't distinguish between bloodline friendships and family then you shouldn't be getting your button period".

Gaius turned to LoveGun with wide smiling eyes and chuckled. Grabbing her by the shoulders before she could escape back into the crowd.

Oh how I wish I understood you better! mind you, I'm sure many of your own family think the same, anyway, I did manage to decipher the very important point you made about respect and self respect. Yes it is critical that each of us conducts ourselves in a way that leaves us in no doubt about our own actions. If we walk solid steps each day then it becomes inevitable that anyone watching us will draw a respectful conclusion. Its a fundamental building block in our way of life and the example we set for others.

Taking another nip from Shaggs' flask of pure evil, he turned back to the rest of the gathering.

I think my friend JimmyNapoli and The_Messiah both make a solid point about business. This is business and that should never be forgotten. Even in war, for the gunman or indeed the victim, it is rarely anything personal, just business. If this single point remains held in appropriate perspective and taught generation to generation, then people stand a much better chance of establishing the kinds of friendships that Shaggs referred to in his second and third examples. But as Mrs-Doutfire poignantly points out, friendship is not a simple acquisition, it takes work to maintain and it can be broken beyond repair. Acts of treachery and deception can cause irreparable harm to a bond of trust. It can take many generations and even then, never be the same as it once was. A very salient point to end on I think as it just emphasises the overall message here.

Friendships, real friendships, are very precious things.

Thank you all for your contributions.

Taking a much braver swig from Shaggs' flask of evil delights, Gaius eyes bulged as he nodded appreciatively at it's brewer.

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