Shayna had not been around the streets long, but she had picked up a few things here and there. As she listened, she quietly gathered some thoughts. Did she agree? Yes. Wholeheartedly, yes. But could there be another aspect brought to it? Yes. Finally there was something to discuss, a something she could sink her own thoughts into.

I think you raise a lot of good points. I agree. One hundred percent, and I know all the arguments against it, heard them all.

The best point that you have raised is that it is disrespectful to one's family. Those that have put in the time and have gotten themselves to Made Man. I also agree that you do not need to make these people hands, but at the same time I believe you should in fact honor their work. Respect their efforts. Wait until the individual has made their actual bones in the family.

This brings about a question, are these actions actually making the rank of Made Man and higher mean much less? I think they might be.

She turned her attention for a moment to gaze around her.

I understand that I am not of a rank to argue it, but these are my thoughts that I am merely throwing out there.

Would it be a bad thing to consider taking hands from other cities? Since we are on the subject of hands, they would not have technically made their rank in the city that they would be a hand for. Would this not also be a bit disrespectful to the members of the city?

Just a few thoughts to ponder.

"Eleven days. Each member must at least have that before becoming an upper echelon of their respected city. It's not a big ask. And I think it's a fair one."

It used to be like this. Unfortunately, it was changed.

This world stopped giving new people a chance long ago. Deaf ear unfortunately

Tommy was finishing up getting his shoes shined and paid the guy who was working on his shoes a twenty. Around the corner he saw a crowd gathering and went to go see what all the commotion was about over on Soapbox Ave. After listening for a while he decided to join in the conversation.

"Here's the thing. Not every one crew is setup the same or runs the same. Not one size fits all. Some crews are unique with how they are run and who they choose to be their hands. A CL could decide to make their hands rotate between certain people in their crew for a few days say Joe Schmoe is LHM for a day and then maybe Billy Knucklehead is LHM the next day and sometimes it may happen that those people are below made. You make a good point for the RHM having to be made I think that should be the standard but LHM? Eh I think LHMs should be allowed to be below made and I would have no issues with that."

 Rosalia Orazia was skipping along the streets minding her own chewing on some grape flavored gum from the local candy store.  When she heard a intriguing conversation. Knowing that most people never paid any attention to what a  child had  to say she quipped  as she passed by.  

I am just an annoying tween, but I have learned one thing in my short life in this world. Unfortunately there will always be people who get maximum credit, for minimum effort. 

Her words trailed on the air behind as she continued to skip along the streets enjoying the sunny day.

Indifference was drunk - and here he was deep in thought again because of it.  The timing of mxyz bringing his thoughts to the streets could not be more perfect.

"Thanks for piquing my interest with your thoughts, sir. I think that what you said has a certain value.  Like every other situation that applies here in mafia-world - I don't think that this is a situation that you can apply one rule to several different situations."

Indifference excused himself for a moment to guzzle 4 beers gather his thoughts before continuing.

"You see - when selecting a hand, one has to work with what they have.  If there are not higher ranked options within the crew - then is a leader to just not have any hands?  I don't think that's right, and I don't think that they should be made to wait. 

Indifference thinks again before continuing...

"If a person of higher rank does not prefer the title - should they be forced into it?  I think not.  Being a hand is something that you gotta wanna do.  Once again, in this situation I think that a thug in diapers might still be a better viable option that nothing."

"In all - I think what's in the crew behind the babyhand has to be considered.  If the gods were to interject again - maybe the rank of the hands should be the cap for the highest rank in the crew beyond the leader, not the rank of the leader himherself.  I'm just spitballing here, but I don't think that it's a terrible idea."

Indifference rubs his chin to get the beer suds off thoughtfully as he waits for others to engage in the conversation.

Salvatore glances over to Mxzy 

"A simple answer should be, no.  A left hand must always be made.  If there are others in the group who are made members and not RHM or LHM, they should not take orders from someone who has not taken the oath - period."

Tommy just shakes his head at Salvatore

"See Sal, I disagree with that. LHM isn't that important compared to a RHM. I strongly believe that LHM should be open to those under Made. To me allowing the LHMs to be under Made allows new blood to be given a chance. LHM can be seen as a proving ground for new folks and can help groom them to become a RHM later on and maybe one day they eventually become a CL."

"Good evening, mxyz. How refreshing it is to have your voice out in these streets again. I'd like to offer my opinions on the matter at hand.

I fear your request that all hands be restricted to mafiosi at least 11 days of age, while admirable, is idealistic and unrealistic. As has been discussed in the previous comments, many times there are circumstances that prevent a leader of having hands of age or rank. Bypassing the whole "trust" issue altogether, sometimes there just simply isn't anyone available that meets the requirements, even randoms that most leaders wouldn't entrust right off the bat.

For example, when I first started my operation in South Side, I had one person who met those requirements - Cinnamon. He was my right hand for roughly 24 hours, before my HQ was full and I sent him to open his own operation. From that point on, my only options were young people. Given the choice between a youngster I knew nothing of, and youngsters who descended from my close friends, I naturally chose the latter.

I get what you are saying - hands should be made. It adds substance to the rank, and the hand position itself - when at all possible, that is. We want to avoid being too totalitarian in these type of things, IE made hands or no hands, etc. Exceptions must be made based on circumstances, however I wholeheartedly agree that when possible, all hands should be eleven days, and made man preferably.

I'd also like to touch on something Tommy-Capello said:

"See Sal, I disagree with that. LHM isn't that important compared to a RHM. I strongly believe that LHM should be open to those under Made. To me allowing the LHMs to be under Made allows new blood to be given a chance. LHM can be seen as a proving ground for new folks and can help groom them to become a RHM later on and maybe one day they eventually become a CL."

I disagree with the sentiment that LHM isn't as important as RHM. To me, they are basically equal. I have had several interchanging hands in my lifetime, each one of them trusted equally with RHM or LHM duties. For me, personally, regardless of if they are at my right or my left, these people are a reflection of myself and my family. I will only place people I truly trust and believe in to hold those positions, because in the end I am responsible for their actions and the reactions that may come of them. I'm not likely to trust that position to "new blood" unless they are incredibly impressive and have earned that chance. That's not to say that I would not or have never trusted new blood in either position, just that it is much more likely for me to use people who I know and love, and have worked with before. I urge other leaders to try new blood when it is deemed earned as well, but I dislike the narrative the LHM is "lesser" and should be reserved for new players to be trained as uppers. That isn't precisely what you were saying, and I don't mean to make it seem like it was, but it is a narrative that I have seen at times and your comment made me think of it.

Are there true duties assigned to a RHM vs a LHM?  

Asking for a friend (or me, a new player).

"An interesting question, Salvatore_Mancuso, albeit not one that I feel has a single straightforward answer. The duties of a hand differ across different leaders and different hands. They can be minimal or vast depending on the leader and the hands.

For instance, I personally tend to be a very hands on, do it all myself type leader. I handle the shot reports, the earnings reports, the day to day operations. Really the main duties of my hands are to be around when I am not, and be a hotline to me outside of this world should I need to be here. They generally handle any mass mails that I miss that need to be forwarded and so on. That's not to say that they aren't capable of handling things without me, I'm quite confident that any of my hands could handle any situation should need be, however I prefer to be involved in all cases if possible. That's just who I am.

I have been in families where the RH is essentially the leader, and the leader is learning from the RH. In those cases, the RH obviously holds more importance than the left, and it is clear to see. I've seen leaders dole out certain responsibilities to each of their hands, such as handling a weekly earnings report or organizing crew competitions. My ancestors have tried these type of things as well. It really depends on how involved the hands wish to be, and how willing the leader is to share responsibilities.

In summation, no, there are no "true" duties for each position, at least not in an official sense, although the overall duties of hands are generally similar across the board. 

I disagree with the sentiment that LHM isn't as important as RHM. To me, they are basically equal. I have had several interchanging hands in my lifetime, each one of them trusted equally with RHM or LHM duties. For me, personally, regardless of if they are at my right or my left, these people are a reflection of myself and my family. I will only place people I truly trust and believe in to hold those positions, because in the end I am responsible for their actions and the reactions that may come of them. I'm not likely to trust that position to "new blood" unless they are incredibly impressive and have earned that chance. That's not to say that I would not or have never trusted new blood in either position, just that it is much more likely for me to use people who I know and love, and have worked with before. I urge other leaders to try new blood when it is deemed earned as well, but I dislike the narrative the LHM is "lesser" and should be reserved for new players to be trained as uppers. That isn't precisely what you were saying, and I don't mean to make it seem like it was, but it is a narrative that I have seen at times and your comment made me think of it.

I think what NathanExplosion is saying here is that he has a man crush on me.  I'm fucking irresistible.  

In all seriousness though - I appreciate the dialogue here and many of you have given me a different perspective on this topic.   Back to the top though - can I commit to waiting 11 days to give someone a hand role?  No, I could not.  I will commit to the fact that we need to give these roles to people who have in fact earned it if you have that available within your family.  I think that means something different to everyone - and it's a diversity among us that I respect.  That doesn't just mean ranking, or age, or anything specific to me.  It means sound decision making, reliability and trustworthiness to me.