I think we are in agreement.  It should be extremely rare and not be handed out to just anyone.  The people have to be tried and true individuals who have proven their worth and want in this life.  They also have to prove they would be the right representative of someone who is made.

So I'm not a Made Man, in fact, I am but a humble Earner, but I heard a hypothetical from a man once that went a little something like this: the man, he runs a city. He's a very powerful man and has 86 members working under him, but this powerful man is very selective with who he gives Made Man. He only has 9 total In his entire outfit and each of them is an extremely valued and trusted member, but now we have 74 other people who aren't given this power and a lot of these people dislike that; not only do they dislike it, but they see the other cities have twenty, thirty, sometimes even forty members under their belts holding this esteemed rank.

Not only that but they've never been given the clout for Organized Crimes and can't work on their shooting and street smarts in the same way that someone over Made Man can. It just doesn't work unless every Godfather Chairmen would be on board to limit the number of Made, and outsiders couldn't really judge what these Godfather Chairmen see in their members, so who's to say that they don't believe forty people deserve the button?

It's just a difficult thing to enforce from what I've seen and there would need to be changes made on a large scale, potentially even regulations set by City Hall themselves before I think we would see a substantial lowering of the amount of Mades in crews. Leaving it for the leader to decide has always just been the best option barring a complete agreement by all of the GFC or city officials to lower the numbers.

Yeah is why I say the difficulty between balancing both is hard, no one wants a great gun or earner, or having a revolution from within for such a policy or people leaving for other families.  At the same time, is people don't want to cheapen ranks.

The truth is i never see an overall agreement across the GFC board, on such a policy as we saw recently with the fall of LA, LV, and southside, something are held together by such fragile threads.

Orko

Yes. the commission needs to meet to determine the limit - regardless of which borgata you are part of - whether you are in New York City, Chicago, Las VEgas, LA, Detroit etc.  Each family is to have a limit on guys - 8 - 20 - give them 30.  Yes, it could mean that a family can limit how many guys join.  That is true - some families make guys wait.  The Genoveses make guys wait 5-10 years before they admit new members.  Or, to gently add new guys in?  Let's say this....once per month - at a certain date - each family can add 2 made members a piece.  If all of your 30 members are alive then - your cap is now 32 members.  If someone retires, then you replace them

See, this is also where you have a structure put in place for Cosa Nostra itself.  You take the five families of New York:

Gambino: 300 members

Genovese: 300 members

Colombo: 150 members

Bonanno: 125-140 members

Lucchese: 125 members

Come up with the same thing in New York & Other Cities:

NY Family: 30 Members

NY Family: 30 Members

NY Family: 20 Members

NY Family: 20 Members

NY Family: 20 Members

Philadelphia: 20 Members

Chicago: 30 Members

Detroit: 20 Members

Las Vegas: 20 Members

Los Angeles: 20 Members

 Even with what is above have 120 made members - similar to waht the game has now.  Everyone votes on when to open and close the books.  Even the above has a statistic of 210 members total to be allowed.  Now you can vote to lower or raise those caps as you WANT.  But, there's currently plenty there to incorporate all current made members in the game.

Even go further - Allow the Chicago family represent the families including Detroit, LA & LV as they are further west.  Where as the five families discuss with themselves or even just have certain members on the commission meet based on that direct power allowing all others to vote too.  But at least you can appropriately assign soldiers to capos and such.

It allows for more consequences for associates - who can form their own "crews" or "gangs" to operate but would still be at the behest of a family.  Let them roleplay, estabish themselves in the streets rather than press a button for a gang when you join.  At leTast let them express themselves the right way in the game.  Button pressing is a joke - and it isn't an accurate way to recruit people.  And if you are an associate and not made - at least you can be considered "on record" with or "under" a specific family.  

There's so much more to this that could improve things - but hey - keep killing each other every week or two and call it the "Mafia" - when that is the furthest from it.  Just re-name the game to "King of the Hill" because none of what going on now is even remotely close to "Cosa Nostra.

While Made man should mean something  you are forgetting that unless you make ever other rank above Made mean something that Made will be nothing to people. Some rank just to pass out to those they have worked with before to advance that particular family friend or that particular bloodline. 

Now I know my bloodline has only been a Crew leader once and recently, but that doesn't mean that I don't understand what Made means and all the others above it mean. 

My ancestor who was a CL had requirements for achieving each rank from Made and above including achieving sponsorship.  I even had a Made ceremony, which you think is a trivial thing but each member enjoyed it. This small act of  the Crew leader shows that they feel being Made means something more than just telling the person you are now part of the family.  The Crew leader makes being Made mean something. Some do , but many don't.

 None of the requirements had anything to with money and they all had everything to do  with knowing the basics of the way this thing of ours works and how/ if  they communicated within the streets ( how they represented themselves and the City and Crew), including the ones on the OUT skirts and the ones on OOC Boulevard. They had to  interact with the crew and be able to help others.  Each rank progressed  with these basic concepts.  I had 18 members and of those 5 were made because on top of the requirements they also were active earners.   And  I had ranks that only the upper structure or  the gang staff could obtain these were Boss and up. 

 Moral is the Rank means what the Crew leader makes it mean something. I would like to add 

 I would like to address this comment by Crazy_Carmine

You should also be able to collect protection money from anyone who is NOT made.

 The protection money is collected from civilians. The Mafia does not collect protection money from its associates.

I do apologize I forgot add that these requirements were posted so that every member could see what they were on a wall in the headquarters.

I dunno.  I come new to a crew - fresh, ready to work, earn, build and be loyal.  I come to my boss and ask what it's gonna take to be made.  Envision this conversation...

"Hey Don ____.  Thanks for taking me on.  I'm ready to serve you to my fullest.  What is it gonna take to make you happy and be made?"

"Sorry mate.  We've got enough.  There's nothing you can do.  You're gonna be a wise guy until someone dies."

Well - right there it's time to find a new crew.  My efforts mean nothing for them.  I'm not sure that's the crew that I want to be in.  It might just be me, but who knows.

And you can get in when you have two people admitted per month.  You missed that part.

 Crazy_Carmine

  So because this guy  did this to  an associate after they fucked up  you are going to assume this is common everyday practice to shake down associates for protection money?  That is very misleading, and quite manipulative.

It was obviously a case of you fucked up but, I like you so I wont kill you, just extort you. 

TheDame

It's not misleading at all.  In that life, you are only as good as the money you bring in.  Once the money stops - no one cares.  I guess we will agree to disagree in this case.  

I understand your opinion on the matter, but not sure it's manipulative at all.  I'm citing valid sources.  Maybe you could provide me some additional evidence otherwise that could prove your point?

Regards,

Carmine

Money is an important aspect of this thing of ours, but it is not the only thing that should be considered.  There are many talents that people can, and do, bring to the table that simply cannot be given a dollar value.

PilotPhil nods as PeterMcNeil says there is more than money in our world.

There sure is. For example, some people have a tendency to be able to spot people at the moment they land somewhere. And some of those that can do even combine it with an airline company of their own..!

Thinking about his own whoring ethics, PilotPhil decides to not bring up anything about loyalty, as him being loyal to whoever pays him would just make his arguments sound awkward.

But well, there is more, of course. Prompt response to leadership requests, being representative for your family, recruiting new people, for example.. This thing of ours has numerous ways to make your mark, apart from making money.

Remembering how people reacted before PilotPhil did himself, Phil added

The fact that there has been an incredibly long lasting era of peace means there are more high-ranked criminals around now than there usually are. I believe the relation between the number of Dons and the average age is as parallel as the rear wheels of my airplane are.

Pointing up in the air, where he had just came from, by the way, PilotPhil added

However, I do also echo CactusJack's words in the fact that sometimes people have been given their button rather soon, for rather little effort.. Personally, I am not yet eligible for my button yet. But if I am, I wouldn't want to receive it if I didn't feel I earned it.

Being made to me was once a big achievement, something I aspired too, and something that didn't come as easy.

I disagree with earnings requirements if theyre the only requirement as you are quite literally buying that status.

I feel like I put in the work to be made, quite some time before I was eligible for it, so to me it is still just as rewarding, but if I was a crewleader myself I would for sure be a lot more selective then some other familys to pick out men to get their button, however I do not judge so harshly families who choose not to operate that way as I see their side as well, as made guys can typically bring in larger amounts of money and have the privilege of acquiring more skills in quicker ways thus benefiting the crew. I see both sides, but mine is more of the old style.