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We are going to slowly restore some previous things. Started by: Squishy on Mar 15, '21 14:30

We had a few successive runs where we had oppressive people at the top who distorted information gathering and used it as an excuse to just kill everything.  Sooo we ended up removing lots of sources of information to avoid the abuse - this causes a catch 22, it means people are blind to who/what/where/when why, which can cause the exact paranoia we were trying to curtail - but can also stop the paranoid from killing every single thing that could be perceived as a threat.

The past few months have shown that we may be at the point where we can start putting faith in those at the top not being gestapo demanding papers at every turn, and killing everything 3 times over because they spent a few minutes on lounge chasing a credit or a rogue.

We will start with reversing the changes that kept hidden the 2,500 or so credits a month that are given out for free on Lounge.  We will start reversing the changes that hide the 5,500 or so kills a month from Rogue that we give out for free on lounge.

We will track the 'general feel' of how refactoring this goes.  It all comes down to accountability - if the people at the top stay sane as demonstrated by the last few months, and the userbase at the bottom holds them accountable - then we can start to revert back to some old ways and start turning on many new features that we felt would not suitable if the top did not have any interest in the bottom 95%.

These decisions are not taken lightly because we have to code around the current leaders, reflections on the past leaders, as well as all future leaders.  But going into this, I feel that the userbase and leaders have demonstrated some restraint and basic humanity that we really missed in past regimes.

I look forward to easing into this and seeing how it goes.

 

Cheers!

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This is a step in the RIGHT direction! Thank you Squishy!!

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Thank you for showing faith in the leaders of this game. Also, thank you to the leaders that brought this breath of fresh air. This may sound so sweet that it could give you readers diabetes, but I do have to say this regime has been the most fun for me.

I'd also like to point out that I haven't seen the game reach such an old age since 2015. We have a handful of accounts that are above 200 days as of this reply and many are looking to reach that. Hopefully, we'll see some accounts reach 365+ days as we have seen in 2015.

So, congrats to the people making the change, congrats to the people who decided to step in and prove that they can be better. Personally, I think you should be proud of achieving something that took 5-6 years to get back to. and, hopefully, this ethic will remain for the future generations of mobsters that will eventually replace us.

Holds up a glass of maple syrup.

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I have to say as someone who's been here a while seeing this makes me very happy. After experiencing previous regimes I thought I might never play this game again. I only came back to help a group of people who wanted to change that fact for me and a lot of others by eliminating the toxic regime we've seen in the past. I can't take any of the credit but I can say for a fact that the current regime or leaders and some of those who have already passed set out to change the culture around here. It feels good to know that what they did is working and that change has been noticed. 

I spoke about this topic in the streets before here. If you've never read it I hope you get the chance to sometime. It was for city hall as much as the players. 

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The data will be instantly recorded and used against people the moment that it’s activated. It’s best to just leave things the way they are.
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The data will be instantly recorded and used against people the moment that it’s activated. It’s best to just leave things the way they are.

Its certainly possible.  I however hope that the userbase as a whole decides to be more than just a passenger in their experience here.   In the future when someone starts to derail, leaders and members alike should hold each other accountable for actions that may cause issues for everyone.  https://www.brainyquote.com/topics/inaction-quotes - a fair bit of these really hit home with past MR situations where everyone sat back and allowed things to happen via inaction, then found themselves in a situation where the people at the top only played a zero-sum game.  They can't have fun unless they know they are making you miserable. 

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I agree 100% with CactusJack. There is no need for CLs to be able to track every rogue kill and every free credit, not suggesting they will, but having the ability to do so has obviously proven to be too much temptation for some. Off all the changes that were implemented, these two are among those that I would like to see made permanent.

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I like it how it is now. Don't go back to the old way.

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I know I didn't read the whole thread but from what I did I'm fucking excited to see things return.
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Will it be displayed on profile again? I do like to flex.

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From what I've read, this current generation of leaders certainly seems preferable to the last lot- but I'm admittedly far from an expert of current events here. The fact that the game administrators are willing to take this step certainly says a lot, since they obviously have the best interests of the game as a whole in mind. The idea that there are new features that could be implemented is VERY exciting. Curious to see what happens here, and I'm glad the game is in a space where these are getting rolled out. This obviously seems like a positive development.

Particularly on the issue of publicly reporting who wins credits and shoots rogues: I'm curious how making this information public benefits the players and the game as a whole? I understand why it was hidden re: paranoia; I just honestly don't understand why these things were public in the first place? The original post mentioned needing to code around past leaders/potential future leaders. Why not leave this private so the opportunity for misuse of this knowledge is never present? Perhaps I'm just missing what the benefit of making this public is. The original post mentions "people are blind to who/what/where/why/when", but I'd argue that this is a strength of the game rather than a weakness. I'd compare not being able to know who is winning credits or winning rogue races to not being able to know how close you are to gaining the XP needed for your next unit- an air of mystery isn't always a bad thing.

I understand that player inaction/lack of taking the future into their own hands is something to be combatted, but I also think that that's a more complicated issue, since it involves players sacrificing game accounts that have taken months of work to build. I agree that players could take more direction into their own hands, but I think that may be a more complicated question than toggling credit/rogue wins on or off. Also, if a player is tempted to act on their own against current leaders, wouldn't public knowledge of rogue race wins and stockpiling credits encourage inaction as well? If the goal is to encourage players to act on their own, why not make this easier?

Again, I've been mostly absent for the past year, so please forgive any ignorance of current events, but my larger question seems less rooted in those recent happenings and more in the abstract. As I said, VERY excited for new features, just curious about the specific benefit of publicly reporting rogue and credit wins.

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100% keep the rogue kills and credits secret. If it’s some that has been abused in the past, it will be abused again. 

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Before I open my big mouth, can we get a list of the changes you'd like to revert? It seems that most are focused on the credit and rogue counters, but I remember there being quite a few rules being put in place in the recent years. 

If all you're going to change for the time being is what you mentioned in the post then:

Go for it. Show and give trust where its earned. Just don't be surprised if a year or two from now you'll have to change it again. 

 

I'd suggest a happy medium as an experiment though. I highly doubt the reasoning behind showing credits grabbed and rogues killed on profiles is for e-peen measurements; is it to showcase the fact that you're giving away all this free shit to active members of the community? If so, why not go for a banner that shows the total number of credits claimed and rogues killed in the past x amount of days? 

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Its certainly possible.  I however hope that the userbase as a whole decides to be more than just a passenger in their experience here.   In the future when someone starts to derail, leaders and members alike should hold each other accountable for actions that may cause issues for everyone.  https://www.brainyquote.com/topics/inaction-quotes - a fair bit of these really hit home with past MR situations where everyone sat back and allowed things to happen via inaction, then found themselves in a situation where the people at the top only played a zero-sum game.  They can't have fun unless they know they are making you miserable. 

 

So talking about peer to peer accountability. I think Runa hit this pretty well...

I agree that players could take more direction into their own hands, but I think that may be a more complicated question than toggling credit/rogue wins on or off. Also, if a player is tempted to act on their own against current leaders, wouldn't public knowledge of rogue race wins and stockpiling credits encourage inaction as well? If the goal is to encourage players to act on their own, why not make this easier?

However, Id like to expand a bit more on this. The problem never was, that players didn't want accountability for reigns that fed off inactivity and purging. The problem was. Those that made the inner circle, were too afraid to hold 'leaders' to said accountability. And the reason for that is very singular. The folks that have the stones to actually make those tough decisions, were hunted and purged on sight. The members that were "Yes Men/Women", enjoyed the benefits of being 'alive'. Although, there can be a conversation about...what Alive really is. Convo for a different day.

Back to my point though. Regimes that have triggered these changes, usually feed off the new/more gullible members of our world. Some of us saw it coming, were purged and had no chance to stop the inevitable. These gullible yes men, didn't even know what was happening. Till it hit them like a truck. And then, choose to be non receptive to anything happening around them. So yes, I agree there needs to be peer to peer accountability. However, take into account. Not all peers have the inherent capacity or the bravery to be able to do so. And those that can be exploited, will always be exploited. Those that will always bend the knee, will always be welcomed with open arms among any regime. Its the accountable type, that actually suffer. 

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