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The removal of JackMezzo & LG. Words have weight. | Started by: Squishy on Mar 31, '21 06:45 |
I am confused as to why everybody is questioning this decision? It's a common known fact that if you make admin accusations then you will die. It is Squishys game. If he doesn't like what he reads he can get rid of you. This is nothing new.. |
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Reply by: Flashman at Mar 31, '21 13:44 | |
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He was given the benefit of the doubt until during my conversation with him and he made it more than clear that he was talking about me accepting dice bets from Sticks. His accusation was intentional, and worded the way he wanted it. He presented it as fact, despite it being 100% not true.
Yes. This is what he did. |
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Reply by: Squishy at Mar 31, '21 13:52 | |
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I understand your want to defend him while only knowing a small portion of things. If it is very important for you to know his side of the story and know all about his business, then I ask you to talk to him directly. Ask what he was saying and how he meant it. It would save a lot of back and forth. |
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Reply by: Squishy at Mar 31, '21 13:57 | |
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Squishy,
I have spoken to him directly, I have asked him what he was saying and how he meant it. From my perspective, it appears that he was raising an issue that he considered problematic for the game to try to fix things, rather than making an accusation. I do not think he was accusing you of what you state here; I have saved a lot of back and forth and confirming that LG shares my assessment that he was not directly accusing you of anything. I think you've misinterpreted this and handled it poorly, but I also think that you of course have the sole ability the judge the situation and mete out punishment. In turn, I have the ability to express my disagreement with your judgment, despite the fact that it almost certainly won't change anything. I have nothing left to say on the subject that has not been previously stated, except to express my resounding disappointment and grief regarding everyone involved here and for the community as a whole. |
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Reply by: RunaKatte at Mar 31, '21 14:04 | |
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There is nothing false about this statement. The few players who wield insane wealth in this game achieved it by making bets with a "non-player" user. In character, we call it City Hall. These bets are visibly different from user-to-user bets, for a few reasons:
In my opinion, comparing the stockpiles of credits "earned" in this fashion to the availability of offering bets to other players is not discussing this issue in good faith, or even with a good understanding of why some users were frustrated with how those credits then have impacted the game for years. Are you going to deny that you made large bets with Sticks and Premeir that won them tens of thousands of credits? Because that's the only thing that would make the above statement a "conspiracy theory", and at that point you're simply lying the userbase. Disclosure: I am not equating the existence of these bets to admin favoritism, admin intervention, or cheating. I am simply saying that they happened.
The reality is, purchasing and gambling credits is a gateway to power in this game, and that means that the people who made fortunes through bets with City Hall years ago will always retain a profound advantage over those who didn't, and the hitlist is one way those fortunes translate to in-game power. As someone who has faced these hitlists- asking a crew, district, or city to kick up cash to help pay them off is infuriating, and represents one of the worst aspects of this game. It is not a conspiracy theory to suggest that a user would have to spend an inordinate amount of USD money to purchase the credits to rival the fortunes of these players- which is where these hits come from. It is not a conspiracy theory to say that the wealth accumulated through bets with City Hall have had an influence on the game since they happened, and grant a considerable advantage over those who did not or could not do the same thing. To see a dedicated user who has put thousands of hours into this game, risen to the top on numerous occasions, and volunteered to serve as staff have his character admin wacked for three sentences of legitimate in-character frustration that many of us have felt for years instead of actually addressing what's frustrating him is a tragic, but predictable, misstep by the administration. Disclosure: I am not suggesting that the admins must or should re-instate JackMezzo's character. I am critical of the way JackMezzo's statements were interpreted by the administration and how they have been mischaracterized in this thread. I share Mezzo's frustrations, and would enjoy finding solutions to the problems he saw. But as long as it's "against the rules" to say that these things happened, that will be impossible. |
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Reply by: Present at Mar 31, '21 14:15 | |
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Frankly, I'm still not sure what I did other than disagree. When you PM'd me for more information after I'd publicly said my piece, I tried to explain my thinking the best I could. I said that LG disagreed with your judgment, that I disagreed with your judgment, but you still had the right to judge things however you'd like. I said that it thought it was a misunderstanding: that you and LG seemed to be on different pages, and I wished cooler head prevailed. How is that dishonest? I suspect that that private conversation that you initiated and pushed at me to respond will be used to justify my punishment. Unfortunately, killing people for what they allegedly say in private and then directing people to ask them to clear things up tends to extend issues rather than solve them. Hitchens razor: what is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Again, you have the right to punish people however you see fit. I disagreed with your punishment of LG and said so, and I strongly disagree with mine as well. In a parallel universe, I think LG phrased his argument better, game admins did a better job of understanding what he was trying to say, and we're probably having a lively discussion about the hitlist right now. Unfortunately, as Candide clearly shows, we do not live in the best of all possible worlds. Cheers, all. So long- and thanks for all the swimmin' with the fishes. |
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Reply by: Keats at Mar 31, '21 14:45 | |
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Then there appears to be a severe disconnect between the conversation you had with him, and the conversation he had with me and the logs that I have reread like 20 times. I really think you either misundestood, information was withheld, or you are misrepresenting the situation here. |
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Reply by: Squishy at Mar 31, '21 15:04 | |
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What a sad day for MR. | |
Reply by: FrancescoBagarella at Mar 31, '21 16:01 | |
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I asked to speak to you in private because what you said here is a complete 180 that I know of LG. You claimed you spoke to him directly about this, and that you asked him what he was saying and how he meant it. Then you spoke for him, which is a 180 of what he typed to me earlier. If you were telling the truth that means LG did a complete about face about what we talked about, or, he misled you, or, you lied about it. You inserted yourself into a situation in an attempt to defend your friend who didn't need any defending. You spoke on his behalf and then you put words in his mouth that I do not believe he used. I hold no ill will towards him and hope that I see him back, your insertion was unnecessary. |
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Reply by: Squishy at Mar 31, '21 16:06 | |
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Or.. Hypothetically they could have talked after it was said they did and before they said they didn't? Then again, I know nothing of the timeframe |
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Reply by: Tammy at Mar 31, '21 16:09 | |
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Tammy, what did you learn when you spoke with both JackMezzo and RunaKatte about the timeline of their conversation? This seems that their business is *REALLY* important to you. So Please take a few moments and get both of them into a room so they can sort out your misunderstanding. And while there, maybe they can align their stories so that when Keats presents himself as the mouthpiece for JackMezzo, he can then insert words into Jacks Mouth that it isn't the polar opposite of what Jack actually says. |
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Reply by: Squishy at Mar 31, '21 16:15 | |
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tammy, sadly, I'm not smart enough to script. 😪 | |
Reply by: FrankieFigs at Apr 01, '21 10:37 | |
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This why I am of the opinion no staff should have game characters. If your a worker at City Hall there should be a clear boundary to avoid optical/political issues. If you're a staff member you should have to make a commitment to better the game solely from that side of the fence. Many initiatives could be implemented without having to employ a legitimate player account. It's an ethical + moral pandora's box and creates a challenge for one's self in being able to recognize the potential for any hubris. The scripting for dice hasn't been changed or modified. Also, stockpiling credits has never guaranteed position or power in this game. Unless you and your friends are already in power. Ultimately, the same points being argued could easily be asserted on hit listees as well as for hit listers. I do not see the relevance of a player's credit assets and hit listing. Prior to these initiatives, the feature was essentially dead and never utilized or successfully developed. I'm itching to issue Squishy a hefty credit tops bet in remembrance of the times that are gone I guess? Maybe I should send it to Sticks instead. Although, the effort and energy in having to exchange the credits to game cash is a big deterrence in itself. That and because the exchange most certainly isn't $500k/cds. If anything, those with the credit assets to abuse have been more likely to be on the hit list than to be the contributors. |
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Reply by: Genovese at Apr 01, '21 21:17 | |
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