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|Was Los Angeles what is a Christmas Bullet in aviation?||Started by: PilotPhil on Jun 09, '21 10:31|
PilotPhil was slightly late to open today's newspaper, as the landing of his flight had been delayed for undisclosed reasons. Phil had promised to not openly speak about what would probably otherwise would have been named 'The golden Tyki_Mikk incident'.
After he landed, he started reading the latest gossip first. It turned out that Gloria Swanson was a vegetarian and was very focussed on yoga. Something PilotPhil never expected of the movie star.
Flipping through the pages, Phil, CEO and pilot of Phil Airlines, arrived at the Obits. There were way too many names in there of people he was fond of.. Phil swallowed. In memory of Genovese, Apparition and Shadow, who he had all known reasonably well, PilotPhil decided to start a public speech. He asked AirHostess_Avril to bring him an empty crate that had held kids meals for the full month, but somehow was emptied after having Olivia as one of the passengers on a short-hauled flight recently.
When she brought the crate, PilotPhil decided to abuse his position to let Avril place the crate right in front of him, on the side of the landing strip.
Gosh, I am glad there aren't any laws about sexism, feminism or employee right in today's flight industry, PilotPhil mumbled, as he watched Avril bend away from him to relocate the crate for the seventh time, as per PilotPhil's instructions.
As he finally was satisfied, he thanked AirHostess_Avril with a wink and stepped onto the crate, raising his voice, he said
Ladies and gentlemen!
Back in 1919, we have seen the demise of two great men, Cuthbert Mills in January, and Allington Joyce Jolly in March. You may wonder: What made these men great? If you ask, then I will tell you: They were pilots.
PilotPhil pointed up in the air
They were pilots on an experimental plane, the Christmas Bullet.
Letting his words sink in to the crowd, he noticed some confusion
No, I am actually getting somewhere with this story. Just like you can get almost anywhere with Phil Airlines, too. You see, the experimental plane, invented and fabricated by William Whitney Christmas, was rather poor in design. And that's where I want to draw a parallel with today's obit section of the newspapers. I want to raise the question, as I know it has been discussed after the initial idea was launched, too, back when I was just a junior pilot, with less air hostesses available at each flight.
I want to ask you: Was the late Los Angeles regime doomed at the moment it was set up?
Back when Genovese, Apparition and Shadow took leadership as they met criteria and were willing to invest in their leadership, the city was promised to be self-regulating. I am not discussing any reasons of why these leaders were shot, I just want to ask you, were they boarding a Christmas Bullet? Can such a city experiment ever succeed?
PilotPhil looked around and wondered if the audience now understood the plane metaphore at all.
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PilotPhil, my man!
I applaud you for bring this discussion forward and I'd be happy to join it. I'm sure this is something that's been on the people's minds. Maybe including the city of Los Angeles itself.
You call this a Christmas Bullet. I like the term of Chechov's Gun to describe this sort of scenario. You put the gun on the shelf in chapter one, the gun has to play a purpose later on in the book.
And unlike yourself, this may be an uncomfortable topic for people to want to speak up on, but they still should. Was it a setup? Was their fate to be failure in the end?
And I guess it's how you decide to look at it. The city was a competitive city and the pool of talent in a leadership role is already questionable, at least to me, compared to someone who might already have an established family and moving for a reward in their loyalty. I'm not one to speak on the removal of LA, but I'm sure there is a reason for their removal nonetheless.
Everything happens for a reason and that brings us full circle around to your point.
Experimental cities seem to have a lower percentage of success than we've seen in the distant past. But those success stories somewhat rewrite each other. They kept close contact with someone who really mattered. That's how we have seen those stories become successful and the people who have accomplished it, have also been successful.
Some people think of an experimental city as being on borrowed time, but I don't find that to be the case. An experimental city is like a job interview. It's a chance to show your worth and show that you can be an exceptional leader, even given the circumstances of your employment. You can go from part time to full time.
In the end, and my humble opinion, it really depends on the person in charge. Some people thrive, and others don't. And as is normal in our history, this things do typically fail at the end of day. Authorization with their city lets them build under actual leadership instead of just being released into the wild and told they have the opportunity to make something of themselves.
Because it's normally a let down. The expectations meet the reality of what's expected sometimes.
In this case, and like many others, the city let itself down. My opinion isn't that much of a surprise though.
Once again, lovely topic Phil. And everyone should be encouraged to share their own opinions. You bring forward something exciting to dive into.
|Reply by: Mxyz at Jun 09, '21 23:58|
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Watching the MadePilot from Detroit step up on his crate and address the crowd, he smiled. Taking a final drag on his nicotine stick, he then squeezed his finger tips and closing one eye slightly, he aimed for the nearest puddle of water, craving that sound of the flame being extinguised by Mother Nature.
Pushing off the wall, he took a step forward.
Whilst PilotPhil could often be qwerky in his delivery, much like that of his in-flight entertainment, the point raised on this occasion was one which could be taken very seriously.
Sir Phil, you raise a good topic. I commend you.
This conversation can be broken down into two parts. I will address each separately.
Firstly, in regards to the recent removal of the Leadership of Los Angeles, I do not believe that they were on a doomed ship from the start. I felt like they were given time to do their own thing and handle the City as they saw fit. Now, I believe the minor slip-ups that were made there were evident to see, I don't need to add any more to that point, nor will I comment on the exact reasons for their recent deaths as that is above my pay grade.
Had things gone slightly different for them, I believe that we would still see them handling the City of Angels and running their day to day operations as they deemed appropriate.
Now, onto the next point.
As for the general concept of competition/experimental Cities, this is a mixed bag. To somewhat get right to the point, I believe it's down to whichever Leaders take the helm, to craft something that really shows their worth. In the past, I have seen a competition City earn its right to no longer garnish that title and move into normal management conditions. So, it is possible.
Is this easy to achieve? Not at all. Yet, should it be easy?
When a member of our community chooses to take on this challenge, I believe that they understand the risks. Yet, its often an opportunity for them to go out and have something which they felt a longing for. An opportunity which may not be so forthcoming in their current City. Taking that early opportunity to go bold should therefore have some risks tied to it, as is with everything in life. Rarely do we get the chance to obtain something out of the norm, without risks attached.
They do this, knowing that they stand alone most of the time, without the guidance of the Leader who helped nuture them. It's a bold, brave move and I still respect the people who tackle this challenge head-on, even if the conclusion is sometimes not what they had hoped for.
|Reply by: Tyki_Mikk at Jun 10, '21 11:15|
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Gates a young man on these streets waited and listed to his elders speak, to try and gain more insight into modern affairs. He had grandparents who came to this new country bravely and carved their own path.
I cannot speak on this part competition city, as I don't know all the details and to speak on something I know very little would be foolish. But I can say over my families lines, competition cities are very much like normal cities in the fact that it is who you know and not what you know that will be the deciding factor in how long you live and if your city will ever leave the competition phase.
The upper structure of this game is all about networking, if you shut yourself off to the world at large and wish to do your own thing. Then you had best have the firepower to come along with that playstyle, going to a city with a fresh start is very hard to do because you put yourself out there on a cliff alone. You have to build each and every bridge you will use by hand, it is hard to do and takes time. I think many times it is hard to forge so many new relationships and expect them to stick, when you are in that position.
|Reply by: Gates at Jun 10, '21 13:39|
While I look back at my family journals and see the historically repetitive failing of competitive cities. I also see one commonality among the failures, and it is not the leaders, as these have been different leaders through the years. It is not they are "left to their own devices", or left "without influence from other cities."
It is the plain and simple fact of them being called competitive and then expecting people to work together to better the city.
I have seen this happen before, well at least once where a competitive Los Angeles did work. It was because the leaders of that particular success did not treat the city as a competition , but as a family which is what a city is supposed to be (regardless of what you call it.)
In short: You can not call a city or anything else competitive and then expect the people involved to work together. They will compete. So in actuality none of the competition cities are or rather were failures, because people did do just that, they competed.
Personally I think the competition city is stupid and undermines the sister city aspect of this thing of ours. Basically it is a tactic used to weaken the traditional sister city alliance between Las Vegas and Los Angeles.
|Reply by: Joald at Jun 10, '21 16:33|
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Joald, I believe we may have different views on the term "Competition Cities".
When I look back at the history books, this term was mostly used to define the method of gaining a position of Leadership within the City. We would see one of the ruling Godfathers come forth when the announcement was made and request that those who were interested in opportunity, speak up and state why they believe themselves to be the right person for the position, often with the support of peers being a deciding factor into who was granted the chance to open up a HQ.
Once the chosen folk had been selected, they were infact highly encouranged to work together for the good of the City itself, not be competitive against each other.
I believe my fathers journals did record one scenario many years ago where it was actually a competitive, each to their own type deal, but I do not believe this was ever the norm.
|Reply by: Tyki_Mikk at Jun 10, '21 17:25|
Hi Joald and Mikk - interesting points raised for sure, I think I sit a bit inbetween you both on this, again going from jouranls af relatives watching with interest, applying, being involved and running crews I think it is a naive to drop the word competative despite the 'application process'. It might be naive of me to say I think these opportunities attract different personality types for their personal objectives and reasons. For some it is I have the cash and the backing I have never run a crew before fuck it why not - others maybe yep nice opportunity can do it with my eyes closed nearly but on my sort of terms or at least the majority collective agreement.
For me the main issue isn't the side show of people watch maybe power struggles within the districts or city itself it is more the implied interest or involvement or not from the wider community. Some see the wider view as a responsibility to step up and wipe out if they can't wipe their own arses and others are happy to grab the popcorn and watch with interest.
Same Mikk I have seen (my ancestors) and been a part of a couple of successes this way - but only a couple over the many years....it is a risk and I have total respect for those that grab it in fact so much to say greater skills are required in these situations, communication agreement and involvement of a mix of sometime conflicting CL approaches and maintaining the wider community respect and also finding that boundary sometimes to show the leadership required to the wider community to kind of say back off you wanted it running as a 'free city' no involvement needed we will sort one way or another. Essential having the tiitle of GFC, GF or CL whilst asking persmission externally whether covertly agreed or implied is tricky. Controversial my view maybe but it is from expereince and observation.
Plus it costs a bloody fortune but that is an aside. I don't think we should loose this aspect of opportunity at all it is quietly fascinating and shows balls and a very pure bright light shone on leaders where it might not be such a watch and wait for the offfical auths - you do or die quite literally. Make a name for yourself and your family for the the future at the very least.
|Reply by: hardon-withasuitcase at Jun 10, '21 18:11|
I should say traditional auths, my bad....
|Reply by: hardon-withasuitcase at Jun 10, '21 18:19|
I would generally agree that Los Angeles was not set up to fail, at least in this past iteration. However, I do think that the creation of cities run by various groups and individuals who were not naturally put into position there will lead to greater disagreement than the combination of groups and individuals who worked together previously (whether in this lifetime or another).
People feel more comfortable with those that they know, or those who pose the least threat to them. When a person in a GFC slot is one of those who offers more vulnerability to them than security, it seems that some in the past sense either weakness or have concern for their longevity such that they push for their removal. This is much more likely to occur in these sorts of competition cities, despite or perhaps because of agreements that other organizations around the country will not intervene (with an asterisk, obviously).
For this past situation, I would hope that a statement by the leaders of this thing of ours could be released to offer some explanation as to the events of a couple days ago, to perhaps offer some clarity on said events for both Captain Phil's and my edification.
|Reply by: TheWeatherReport at Jun 10, '21 19:08|
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Tyki_Mikk I do not always explain myself to the full understanding of others. I now I have this handicap, so your response to my comments does not surprise me.
No we have the same idea of a competition City and how it is developed.
What I think I was not clear on and if I can make myself clear you may see we agree on more. You see wording is everything.
It is the wording that makes the encouragement of the competition city occupants to work together completely psychologically undermined by calling it a competition city in the first place.
When people hear the word competition it triggers certain hormones in the brain many of these hormones are also the same ones that trigger fight or flight syndrome. This is why they fail, not because of the leadership.
But because they are set up psychologically on the onset to fail.
With the environment of this thing of ours most of the competition cities go into fight mode. Instead of working as one unit ( as a family) they become separate units vying for control of Los Angeles instead of working for the betterment of it. Sometime 2 districts work together to take out one as we just witnessed, sometimes none of the 3 districts can successfully work together and the city implodes completely.
We have heard wording or phrasing means everything and if you have studied communications or advertisement this the very core of both those fields. There have been studies that show that wording does affect people and how they behave by changing their mindset. One such word that was changed after the study is the word victim, they changed this word to survivor. And found that this simple word change in the term changed victims(survivors) mindset about the trauma and this mindset is what affected them the most in the long term to be able to cope. Another word change is the field of medicine or rather patient treatment and this is chronically ill patients I am referring to. They changed this term from sufferer to warrior. This changed the mindset of the person with the chronic illness from someone who feels helpless to do anything to someone who has form of control of something we all know is uncontrollable.
Please by all means do your own research on wording and how it changes peoples views feelings, behaviors and reactions of a situation.
I am simply saying it is the phrasing Competition city that sets them up to fail.
First, I want to address what you said about communication agreement, involvement of mixed sometimes conflicting approaches and maintaining wider city respect. I feel this is applies to all the cities in general not just a competition city. This is something that is basic for any cities survival and prosperity.
Second, I think calling it a Free city when this is done again would be better phrasing and avoid the psychological failure that I mentioned above caused by phrasing. Autonomous city may even be a better phasing to encourage success.
Third if it is a free city or autonomous city they should not have to ask any out side source for permission on any title or ranks given in that Free city/ Autonomous city . They should not have to ask anyone for any permission, because that is part of being called Free.
When the competition cities fail like the most recent due to bullets from other cities that is not upholding any agreements that other organizations around the country will not intervene. That is outside intervention at its fullest application. Some past competitions have failed due internal warring but far more have been dropped due to outside bullets coming in. They should be allowed to regulate the city how the see fit if they are a free city of the organizations, and if the outside cities don't intervene.
I want to be clear I am not in support of any single competition or autonomous city. In fact I think all the cities should be autonomous of each other, I think it would give this thing of ours more of the ambient mafia feel that people are saying they feel is missing . Yes, in the mafia there are families that make alliances, usually by marriage connections or business contracts. And yes these connections crossed territorial boundaries, this is how families became strong by making alliances. And yes sometimes these alliances failed it is human nature. This is why when you look at past family alliances you will sometimes see families aligned with Chicago and then change or make an alliance with New York, or Las Vegas, or whatever city this was because the Families in control changed in some fashion or another it could of been they changed their philosophy or that the leadership changed. Anyways I think I am rambling now so I will stop here.
|Reply by: Joald at Jun 11, '21 06:18|
I knew that the landing strip was a rather popular place, especially since Phil Airlines now also flies from wherever you..
PilotPhil pointed his index finger into the middle of the crowd, yet at noone in particular, basically abusing the crowd for another bit of branding
..want to fly from.
Pulling back his finger, he started commenting on the comments, something he wasn't used to do as he always ignored passenger feedback on his flights.
Thank you all for coming out to the airport in big numbers to discuss this matter with me. I am happy to see I am not the only one that is interested in this topic. Let me handle your replies in order of arrival.
Mxyz. I totally agree with you that it's mainly dependent on the leaders themselves. Yet, maybe, the key aspect is that the combination of building your own city combined with keeping close touch on showing internal leadership and keeping good relationships with other cities in the mean time, whilst your status changes over time. The tricky part about it may be that there had been no auth, so perhaps noone feels the responsibility to streamline small issues, making them look bigger than they actually are.
I don't question the leadership, to be honest. From what I heard the atmosphere was great and clearly, the leaders that were left in the end were prepared to take action if they felt it was needed, too.
I am delighted to see you here, as delighted as I always am when you board yet another reasonably safe Phil Airlines flight. Be careful with those cigarette though, they are currently refueling as I may need to whore elsewhere soon.
As to your points.. The former.. Yes, without the reasoning behind the removal, we can never tell. I surely hope though that the speech by Apparition on the Genovese removal was not it. As I, without judging the action, massively appreciated the honesty about the reasons for the removal personally.
The second point you make is very interesting and I agree with your rhetorical question: There is no easy leading of a city and there shouldn't be either. And I am sure their loves have been more eventful than the ones of those that have only coloured between the lines until they died in their sleep.
So you feel that if it was named differently, like.. City of opportunity for example, it would do better? I was still an underaged junior pilot when the city opened up, but I actually believe I remember in the wording it actually was not named competitive. Correct me if I am wrong, though. And if you do, send any complaints to AirHostess_Avril. She will handle all claims for me.
PilotPhil turned his head and said
Interrupting himself, PilotPhil said
I am terribly sorry, but my flight is due. I will get back to you as soon as I have landed.
In the middle of answering people, Phil turned around and stopped handling comments, as if they were lawsuits against Phil Airlines for sexual harassment. He climbed the stairs and started the engine as he wondered who today's flight attendants would be..
|Reply by: PilotPhil at Jun 11, '21 10:27|
beasty steps up to the soapbox and begins to speak:
"I have something to say about this that I think would be legitimate"
beasty, feeling a bit uncomfortable, shits his weight.
"I dont want to make a huge fuss about this, because there wasnt an explaination for why LA was destroyed, but being a competition city, and being told that they would be left alone to make their own desicions about how they move forward; I have to ask 'why did other cities get involved in the takedown?' I liked Genovese and was very proud to see him set up shop in LA. However those other CLs in LA say him as unfit to be there. I was quite shocked and saddened to see him killed, especially for kind of a poor reason, but if if that was their choice, I guess the CLs of LA had the right to remove him, without any interference from the rest of the country. I'd also like to say that I really liked and respected Shadow as well, so, I'd like to here a reason for the dealings of LA to be sorted by outside influence if , in fact they were to be left alone."
beasty clears his throat, now clearly uncomfortable, speaks again.
"I'm not trying to cause trouble here, I'm just trying to get a clear answer, to keep the people of the new LA a chance to flourish and survive."
beasty steps off the soapbox and walks away.
|Reply by: beasty at Jun 11, '21 13:26|
"Beasty you raise some decent questions here, and I recognize the fact that you aren't trying to cause trouble, just looking for answers like many of us. As you mentioned, there hasn't been an announcement on the removal of Paradise and the rest of Los Angeles so at best we can only speculate on the reasoning.
But I for one, do not believe that the removal of LA was any sort of revenge killing or consequence for their decision to remove Genovese. I'm not privy to all of the information as to why the LA project was ended, but in my humble opinion, the only legitimate reason there could be was that the LA leaders had been (or were believed to have been) involved in plots and/or plans that did not involve their city. There has been a lot of murky "intel" and false information swirling about of late, but if the other cities felt that LA could potentially be of threat to them, then I feel like they were entitled to step in. Otherwise, I believe it would have been a mistake for the other cities to end the project early."
|Reply by: Wayne at Jun 11, '21 18:06|
Jimmy stepped forward and cleared his throat slightly to let it be known he had something to say. Looking at the last two gentlemen to speak Jimmy replied,
"I am going to respond in a way which I know many may not like - but I feel it needs to be said. My intent is not to be argumentative and I certainly mean no disrespect to either of you."
Jimmy took a moment to light a cigarette and take a deep drag before continuing, smoke puffing out of his mouth as he spoke,
"My curiosity certainly has me wanting to know what happened in LA and I hope that there might be some more information forthcoming to soothe my curiosity, however, the only reason that any of the other cities needs to be entitled to take out another city is that they can do so while handling any potential blowback that might come their way."
"This thing of ours isn't a democracy and it isn't a kind thing. It is ruthless and the dog with the biggest bite is the one that gets to make the decisions. The cities can come together and decide to make another city an experiment and the next day decide to end it and if they can do so it is within their right. Anyone who takes up a crew in one of these cities goes into it knowing that there is a risk that they will be wiped out before they can really get their footing under them - that is the risk that comes with the opportunity."
"I don't know if I agree with the hypothesis that experimental cities are a doomed endeavor - I seem to remember some of my ancestors writing about some successful such cities many many generations ago. That said, any of these cities has to understand that, "your free to do as you choose" is of course only partially true. Yes, they can do what they choose, but they will also face the consequences of their actions - or for that matter the consequences of the whims of another, more powerful, city. Part of staring your own city and family is losing the protection of your previous family - unless of course you work out a deal beforehand for protection."
Jimmy smiles slightly and shakes his head
"I'm sorry, this turned into a bit more of a rant than I intended. My bottom line point is this - I realize it might be splitting hairs but I don't think any city needs a reason to intervene in another city beyond their ability to do so."
|Reply by: Jimmy_The_Hand at Jun 11, '21 20:35|
PilotPhil maybe city of opportunity would have been better. That is a good suggestion. Since you missed reference to Los Angeles being called a competition city let me direct your attention to a couple of previous conversations on various corners that did just this.
There is the one that was started by Mxyz, Los Angels needs some standards. where Mxyz states :
Competitive city does mean competition city in this thing of ours these words are used to mean the same ideology. Please don't and try to fool anyone that, that is not was what it is usually called and was called in coffee house talks off the streets before its inception.
You also have reference to it being a competition by other people who are taking part in this very discussion . Beasty
Another reference from this discussion: hardon-withasuitcase
Another from this discussion . Tyki_Mikk
all these are in reference to Los Angeles being a Competition city.
|Reply by: Joald at Jun 12, '21 00:27|
The Phil Airlines flight carrying PilotPhil had landed exactly on schedule, albeit the schedule had just been altered by PilotPhil for him and his Phil Airlines company to score better in the international lists of punctuality.
Gates, I believe you have a point about the networking. The difference though lies in the fact that if one emerges from an existing family and has grown through the ranks there, that they already have the networking sorted. They have the line of communications laid out before them if they are naturally authed. Apart from that, these 'competition pioneers' don't just have to focus on their own crews, but have to sort a whole new city, without having a vote in who they are to work with. I believe it's tougher.
Basically, I just say I agree with hardon-withasuitcase.
And if I hear TheWeatherReport, I feel he has made a great abstract of my opinion. In this case, it would have been nice to hear about the motives, like Apparition brought to the crowd after the removal of Genovese. And there, I agree with beasty. In my humble opinion, rumours can take a flight when people have to guess for the motive. Nothing against taking a flight, though..
Phil looked around him and added
And if you do take that flight, fly with the reasonably reliable Phil Airlines!
Stopping his advertisement, which he never intended to do in the first place, but felt forced to do as the mechanics of his reply led there, the pilot continued
If what Wayne says is true, though, that would be a hell of a reason, of course. And if this was the reason, it makes you wonder why it is held silent? Perhaps because the people that decided to end the project do not want to share how they got information.. And why would that be? Because it would be too easy to use the method used to another city?
Phil shook his head
I know, I know, it's all speculation.
PilotPhil was happy Jimmy_The_Hand stopped Phil from speculating even more, as Jimmy announced himself going to share an unpopular opinion. He listened to the speech and wanted to come back on one thing
I understand your thinking, Jimmy_The_Hand, but basically, you are doing as I do, we are speculation about the reasons for the removal. You take it a step further, though, and speculate about the whole city being set up as target practice, if I can be so free to conclude from your speech. I have to disagree with that one, as I do feel that would be rather macabre and not matching with what I have witnessed of the regime of the other cities at all. But maybe I misunderstood you on that one, it wouldn't be the first time today, to be honest.. Airtraffic control was chatting with me this morning, as I approached the airfield.. I was rather busy with the air hostess and..
PilotPhil realized he was not being constructive to the discussion if he would be sharing shameful stories, so he stopped mid-sentence.
Oh yes, Joald, you are totally right. What I meant was: What was the description of what the set-up of the city of Los Angeles would be at the time it was proposed? I do not have that information myself.
PilotPhil spread his hands, not imitating an airplane, but just adding weight to the fact that he did not know
|Reply by: PilotPhil at Jun 15, '21 08:25|
Jimmy shook his head and chuckled slightly as PilotPhil spoke.
"I am not sure if I was unclear or if you were distracted by your hostess friends. I did not mean to imply that the city was set up as target practice. I have no reason to believe this is true, actually. I only meant to say that any city has the right to take out any other city without any further explanation or caused necessary - this was in response to the couple of gentleman who spoke directly before me about what may have given those that took LA out the right to interfere with intercity issues."
|Reply by: Jimmy_The_Hand at Jun 15, '21 19:05|
PilotPhil's blush could hardly be spotted on his sun-tanned face
Thank you very much for clearing that up for me. I must admit that the air hostess on service indeed did an excellent job on that flight, Jimmy_The_Hand.. It's not always easy being a pilot, you know..
Gulping, Phil added
But yeah, you are right. We, the people, are not entitled to explanations.. Yet, I do like getting them anyway!
|Reply by: PilotPhil at Jun 15, '21 19:10|
The squirrel god hadn't listened to a single word in either the speech or the subsequent dialogue so felt he was perfectly qualified to stick his furry, damp nose into.
'PilotPhil The Christmas of which you speak is an insult to Odin, unless you sing 'santa baby' he likes that one very much, which raises so many other questions..............'
The rodent deity goes for a joyride in Phils personal lear Jet
|Reply by: Ratatoskr at Jun 16, '21 19:06|
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