A person who plays the spy in this thing of ours. 

You know that rat that sits around just to pass around information that is supposed to be kept within the family. 

The one who breaks Omerta of the crew and the family.

 For what I am not sure maybe monetary compensation, or maybe it is for a promised position such as a Crew leader or hand position. 

The question is can you really trust this person?

Or

Their bloodline for that matter I would think if you were known to pass information from your crew/family to another (Break Omerta) then that may taint your bloodline for being untrustworthy. 

But is this person also untrustworthy with their employer?  I mean a spy lies, and tricks people to earn their trust? Who is to say they aren't selling information on anybody including employers and former employers; the highest bidder. 

So the question is can you really trust a bloodline that has been known to pass around information that is supposed to be protected under the law of Omerta?

 It is simple Shoresy

Because  then it would not be a discussion it would be an attempted roasting. Just like  the comment before mine.

Let's be honest and straight here maybe blunt for some of you.

 People ask for hard  discussion topics, but when they are brought the  streets  you attacks the presenter.  You being nothing to the discussion and you discourage the discussion you are in fact asking for.  I only expect random off topic remarks , self promotions and attacks on myself when I come out here and post these types of topics.

Shoresy I will no longer be talking  with you.   I have no idea where your animosity comes from. Nor do I care at this point. 

So the question is can you really trust a bloodline that has been known to pass around information that is supposed to be protected under the law of Omerta?

I think it is commonly accepted that one's reputation will influence how people interact with them. Sometimes it is difficult to separate the person from the bloodline, sometimes it is not. 

Classic case of risk and reward. Why share information if it doesn't help you in some way? Or, conversely, why share information that harms you? Suddenly you run into the lines in the sand of loyalty to your crew, loyalty to your friends, animosity toward your enemies, and any devolution of that nexus. This goes for both CLs and their members, to proactively clarify things. 

As with your rogue discussion, I think the people who traffick the most in the business of secrets would be least likely to share their thoughts on the matter. Nonetheless, it's interesting to occasionally pop open the WikiHow (tm) encyclopedia of how-to tutorials. 

At the end of the day, it seems to me that sure, while these people may exist, there is a net zero impact of positivity/negativity on this world as a result. What I mean to say, is that if a secret is revealed, a party - or multiple - benefit. Similarly, a party will lose some sort of influence, power, or respect, etc. Liars lie. Thieves thief. In a world of villainy and scum, it is nothing but natural. And perhaps it is best to be on their better sides if you are to gain an advantage. 

That is, depending on how you define your goals in this thing of ours. 

Snitches get stitches. Its only right for those people to die. 

Thank you TheWeatherReport  for bringing your points to the discussion.  While I can't agree with you that a spy should be seen as an ally in this thing  of ours, a rat is a rat after all,  I can still appreciate your opinion. 

I lean more toward beasty's opinion of those people must die.  Snitches get stitches in the criminal world that is a a fact of life.  This most likely  is because they can not be trusted.

What I took from The Weather Reports reply was if these people exist, which they do, it would seem advantageous to use them for your own benefit rather than have them be used against you.

This of course implies you can weed out a rat, they intend on deceiving and therefore are hard to spot. If a CL or hand were to attempt to find one, they would first have to offer up the devious plan and could result in a different problem altogether.

I'm against labelling an entire bloodline, as people can quite literally change but a rat, once spotted, must meet a barrel of water. His/her next of kin can decide for themselves who they are.

I think there’s been a lot of good points brought up here. I’d like to offer my opinion on the subject, I think if you want to label someone a rat for being a rat then that is fine. You deal with a rat the way you see fit, eye for an eye, demotion. That part of the discussion is on a case by case basis to be handled by the individual leaders.

I will say though that I agree that the action of a single character should not taint a entire bloodline, I don’t know about other but I generally play each character differently. I play them based on the character I have constructed them to be. (Usually similarly tied to when I’ve used the name previously) I think that’s why so many have an issue with bloodlining because they play with different groups of friends and differently as I said based on them. 
 

I think Shoresy is absolutely right when he says if I know someone is a rat, personally I’m fine sitting watching them in my crew. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer, if you know someone is a rat feed them false stuff and use it to your advantage. To kill a rat, is to expose them and the link. Unless you plan to act on that expose link, I think it better to use it as another tool at your disposal.

Thank you Gates for you contribution to the discussion.  You brought some good points to the discussion. 

NO one can trust a rat, but they are useful to feed false information, when suspected and see where it ends.   Then they are a notch on someones gun when that info feeds back around to you

 Now that there is some calm in the air I will respond properly :

Gates  and Rude

While I appreciate your  comments on the usefulness of spies. 

In this thing of ours if we do not uphold Omerta for what it is, then we are not upholding the values that we criminals hold in high regard. 

Now someone will come say we are criminals we don't live by no code we have no ethics. 

 This is my  response to those  who would come here and say that : The criminal world is not anarchy.  

 In this thing of ours Made Men are called Men of Honor because they uphold Omerta.   So anyone who is a spy is not a man of honor as one of the laws of Omerta is to never lie and a spy has no choice but to lie in the profession of spying.  

The simpel fact is many criminals don't have suck values and haven't for a long time.

All that matters is getting into power and staying there.   Is not about values, is not about recruiting an active crew or even loyalty towards them.  Is simply about making money and staying in power.

The truth is this things is often not like the mafia, but common street bosses and hood gangs just desperate to cling on to what they have even when they lose interest and are rarely seen anymore e.g godfathers and leaders around less than 10 hours a week.

Made Man has long lost its worth, is no longer men of honour in many crews, is just like a factory production where family members of mine have earned the rank when contributing nothing or very little to a family.   Made is more an eventuality than an achievement and has been that for a long time in many crews.

The truth is you dont even have to be made to spy, when people declare kills in family chat, or how many rogues they hit each day.   A person with high street smarts can watch locals for someone else, a person and they could simply  be an associate.   Even someone watching the earnings table if a crew holds one, or watching sponsors and earners.    IS all down to how you wan to target a family to hurt it.

You can also spy, record data on a crew without being part of it, my family line used to keep records of when people reached certain bg from rival crews, typical cities they were found in etc as if a war was to come they would be able to be more decisive as they strike.   The idea was it was easy to better judge the real level of the bodyguards as anyone can surround themselves with poorly trained bg's but watching someone build steadily training them, can help analyze them better.    Same with having people follow people to gather witness information etc, who is hitlisting who.  The spy game is not as complex, or even neec to betray a crew to do it, it can be used to support the crew your in making it very honourable.

If I look at my family bible and see the history written within their memories I would have say yes you are correct on a lot of what you say about how most do not uphold the true meaning of Omerta and when they do it subjectively here and there against the people they want to use it against... instead of objectively towards all equally.  That is true with a lot of things done in this thing of ours as we can see by observation are not even done in the spirit of the Mafia at all but  as common street thugs. Which a Man of honor would never allow themselves to be mistaken as. That is why the founding fathers of this of ours  had created the law of Omerta. Which if you study is not just about being silent about what happened within the family. 

Rude is there not a difference between gathering intel without the need to gain false trust , and the act of gaining false trust to gain that information ? 

Oh he killed himself while I was responding. I wonder if my screeching chalkboard voice caused that.  Anyways to his spirit thank you for some input into this discussion. 

 I appreciate all those who brought something constructive and on topic of the  street discussion.  

the real question here is can you gain the trust of a former Snitch?

I would like to say that one persons bloodline that has been known to snitch on someone before is not necessarily going to do to do it again

Circumstances may be different, there are many things to factor in.

firstly are you planning an attack on a friend of the "snitch" or are you planning an attack on the "enemy" if you are planning an attack on the "friend" and you decide to share this information is it to be expected that they will go and run their mouth in order to save the lives of people they have know their entire life? I was sat yes.

I believe when you plan a war you should keep it to your closest of friends if this information gets out then the people you tell can be a liability.

For example the "snitch may not be purposely trying t let this information out but they could tell a close friend of theirs hat has conflicting interests.

Its like Chinese whispers information get spread fast if you can not 100% trust the people you are telling.

There are always risks to a war and this is sadly one of them. the bigger the wave you plan the more people you have to involve the risk gets higher.