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| Sure youre a Captain, but youre no Leader | Started by: Ellis on Apr 03, '08 17:30 |
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Today's shocking events brought about the demise of two of the three most powerful crime syndicates of the underworld. The streets of Chicago and New York are scattered with the bodies of the members of Cab_Tufting and Intervention, and now it leaves us with some serious issues which are yet to be resolved. There are now more homeless mobsters than there has been for some time, and although we, as Crew Leaders, do our best to communicate with our people to not fire their guns at the unsponsoreds, it is inevitable that some will not follow our orders. Most of us know the story by now. Intervention shot Cab. PrinceOfCheese HQ wacked Intervention. Then shoots l0v3hand for his involvement in Cab's death. All this raised one question for me. It concerns the difference between Captains and full-auth Leaders. What makes us auth someone as a Captain, rather than a full-auth Leader? A Captain will remain within our Family, whereas as a full auth will be given the opportunity to head their very own family, and (in most occasions) their own city. The differences between authing a Leader and authing a Captain are subtle at first glance. However, when compared in detail, it becomes obvious that the differences are actually major. So then, what makes us decide to auth someone as a Captain, rather than a Leader? Is the decision a trust-based one? Would you only give full auth to someone whom you had absolute faith in? Or does power hold most of the weight of this decision? Will the choice to auth a Captain as an extension of your crew solidify your stranglehold over your city? Will it make you more powerful than the leaders who have not authed a captain? From a personal point of view, I would never give someone a full auth unless they were a very close friend of mine, someone whom I trusted in 100%, someone from my close group of Coffee Place friends. A Captain, however, is a position I see a little differently. Whereas I'd only give full-auth Leadership to someone whom I was impeccably close with, this wouldn't necessarily be the case with the person who I decided to make a Captain as an extension of my Family. Why? Simple really. It was demonstrated today. Le HQ Wack is a beautiful thing. Don't you think? What I'm saying is this: the less I trust someone, the more I will believe that its possible that they will either fuck up, or go on a mad one. Of course, I wouldn't need to worry about this with someone who I gave full-auth Leadership to, because they would have my faith indefinitely. However, as I said, I wouldn't necessarily have quite the same level of trust or faith in someone who I granted Captaincy to. Maybe I'd have 99%, but that still wouldn't be enough. My protection if the shit hit the fan? That little button that I can press at any time which will rid me of the threat. This notion was exemplified today, and Intervention's decision to remain as Captain, rather than take up his offer of being a full Leader, proved to be a costly one. Who knows what could have happened if Intervention was the Leader of his own family and POC had not the option of the trusty HQ Wack? Would any of us still be here now? Perhaps, but perhaps not. I'm not stating in any way that Intervention would have gone on to rid the world of more Leaders of course. I've genuinely got no idea what would have happened. So then, Now that my opinons on the difference between a Captain and a Leader are out of the way, I leave the air open for you to express yours. What makes the difference between a Captain and a Leader? What separates the two? And what factors play the part in helping us decide which kind of auth to give? The preceding announcement has been paid for by the 13th |
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| I hear what you are saying Ellis, it is getting difficult to jugde people and their actions now days as you do not know alot about what they are thinking, like today. But if you keep them as a captial you will have a firm idea what is going on and can help stop it happening. | |
| Reply by: LilWayne_ at Apr 03, '08 17:52 | |
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I think you've pretty much summed it up Ellis, I would certainly not give auth,if I was in a powerful position to do so, to someone who I was not 100% sure of. Again this comes down to personal choice, and although it may be hard on people outwith my own close knit group who may very well indeed go forth and excel, it's just the way I would do it also. Maybe the recent implication of references is a smaller scale version of this, but on any given day I believe anyone can go a bit crazy and do some damage. Only difference is, with a 100% trustworthy friend, your likely to know about it. |
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| Reply by: primaryinfantry at Apr 03, '08 18:13 | |
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| Its a shame really, because what it boils down to is only Authing friends...and then you have to deal with the community complaining about that...."so-and-so was only authed because he was so-and-so's best friend". But then again, is that such a bad thing? I definately wouldn't want to put up someone that was known to hate me ...thats just not good business | |
| Reply by: CharlieBaltimore at Apr 03, '08 18:21 | |
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| I 100% agree with you Ellis, But i would just like to point out one thing.... l0v3hanD had no involvement in Cabs take down. | |
| Reply by: Hai at Apr 03, '08 18:32 | |
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| I'd prefer to not steer this topic onto something different. Those were the reasons that were given for l0v3hand's death, whether people agree or disagree. I'd like the content of this discussion to remain focused on the major theme of my original speech, that being the issue of Captains and Leaders. | |
| Reply by: Ellis at Apr 03, '08 18:48 | |
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| well i really think there should be a few more chances of full authed CLs in different city because the citys are not there to be empty and no one to run them, but if not aloot of people are trusted now i think more captals and make them earn there way to running the own family in there own city | |
| Reply by: LilWayne_ at Apr 03, '08 18:53 | |
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From now on the setting will be CPs running the main families and other people getting a chance at Captain. I really don't find it that bad. Especially because, I know, even the most trusted people can go Rogue. It always happens. It isn't something people can stop. Just like if you force your kid to stay inside all his life in hopes that he will turn out good. Instead he becomes a Gang banger at 19 and is dead at 32. Nothing you can really do about it. |
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| Reply by: Valentino at Apr 03, '08 19:10 | |
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| I make it sound as if I know what is going to happen. I meant to say it will "probaly" be CP as full authed leaders and other people being Captains. | |
| Reply by: Valentino at Apr 03, '08 19:11 | |
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| Hai - it's your fathers fault he died so I don't even know why you are even speaking about it at all. | |
| Reply by: PrinceofCheese at Apr 03, '08 19:24 | |
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I don't suppose it would be too much to ask for you to explain that Prince? I wake up today and I'm homeless, the only message received from Lovehand. I ended up very confused as this was the message... "(reply) (forward) To: DeadlySin From: l0v3hanD Sent: Apr 03, '08 01:04 Subject: Morning, Intervention warred Cab_Tufting. ( We are NOT involved) Cab is now dead DO NOT SHOOT any of Cabs family with TAGS in profile. Thankyou. The war is still on going." As you can see, I didn't understand why i ended up homeless, and I still don't. You can surely understand why I'd like to know what happened. ~Sin. |
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| Reply by: DeadlySin at Apr 03, '08 19:34 | |
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| Ellis, you're so correct. If it wasn't for your concise and incisive speeches I'd be lost and have nothing to touch myself off to. | |
| Reply by: Rybe at Apr 03, '08 20:33 | |
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Ellis I understand what you're saying. But if mafioso's aren't given the chance to build upon themselves and be given the challenge/enjoyment of running a family then part of this game doesn't exist to those who want to be authed one day. Yes people die if the wrong person is authed. Examples: Cathy-caust. PrinceofCheese was authed and threw the eyes of Badass Inc., State St. and maybe some other crews this could have been a mistake. Although some may feel that way, the world has changed for us all. In better ways and sometimes for worse, more wars in my mind. But its not a bad thing giving people a chance. It has rocked the world. Then there was the authing of late Limoncello. A lady known to be a hitter and have close bonds such as CP and friends would. She and her followers attempted to end the rule of POC but failed. Yes this is bad but it was to change this world of ours. Maybe I'm just looking threw the eyes of a general point of view, but chances are taken all the time. Death is part of this world. We're mafioso's, yes it could go without killing. There will always be killing, but why take away the chance to give someone who works hard for their family not the chance of being authed because you aren't close to them. If people are brought up for auth then clearly someone feels they've worked hard and if accept it deserve the chance to be a crew leader. OOC speaking though. It was my understanding Interventions did what he did do to real life. He simply chose a bad way of doing so by taking out a crew leader. As for L0v3hanD I'm not sure 100% his part or intentions. |
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| Reply by: CharlieScene at Apr 03, '08 22:04 | |
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I personally like to treat captains much like right hand men. They work for their leader just as any right hand would do. They should not set policy that goes against their leader. They should be working to strengthen the main family and not to put it in jeopardy. My opinion on how they should be run (forgive me i was not around when captains were first set up) 1) a good portion of the captains family earnings should go to his leader 2) every information from ws to his own hit squad stats should be sent to upwards. 3) leaders mass mail to the family should be relayed to the captains family. 4) willing to sacrifice a captain and or his family for the safety of the main family 5) I think a captain family should be a place to put the young unknowing types and maybe those who might need to re-earn the trust of leadership. Give someone new a chance for some leadership roles and responsibilities. As promotions comes, the leader of the city can decide to take them into the larger family or keep him with the captain's family. The captain should be working to prove he can run a family with his leader and all the leaders around. If the time is right to have a new auth then they might be the ones to auth. They should be only allowed to take a fraction of their crew and a new captain should be set up for the family. I believe Ellis is correct that a captain does not carry the same weight that a true auth leader does, I hope to see more captain family open up in the near future because it brings more diversity to the streets, I also believe that intervention needed to become a true auth or not be promoted to Don but that is another debate. Thank you Curly |
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| Reply by: Curly at Apr 03, '08 22:29 | |
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| For f***s sake, why is this in street? HQ wack etc etc. Leaders are supposed to be the ones setting the example. Get a grip. | |
| Reply by: Isen7 at Apr 03, '08 23:43 | |
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| For someone who whines about my speech being spoken in the wrong place, it's not exactly bright on your part to mention the very terms which you claim don't belong here yourself. If that term is so blasphemous to mention in the street, then why are you mentioning it again in your reply? I think you need to take your head out of your arse and get a grip yourself. | |
| Reply by: Ellis at Apr 04, '08 05:56 | |
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This is comical. What was I ruining by using non-street terms in a thread that was already non-street, poorly thought through and in the wrong place? Sure, my comment was probably a little aggressive, but it certainly had merit. I expected to die for it and did, but the point remains that i'd do it again if it spared a poor example being set to everyone, by a leader. I just want the game to be played as it's supposed to be, its so much better that way, and I dont think leaders should be immune from criticism. You'll say you don't have to listen to me, whine whine etc etc, seen it before blah blah. I dont give a shit. It's a crying shame that you're arrogant enough to be beyond appraisal. I think if people are serious about MR being a better place, more fun, more people like everyone is always going on about ('vote here, vote there'), then they can't have double standards and present drivel in the street, which is the least attractive thing a new player could encounter. I really like this site, I think it's such a breath of fresh air after .org went to the dogs, all i'm warning against is complacency. |
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| Reply by: OneSix at Apr 04, '08 08:05 | |
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| It's comincal now since you went and did what you were crying about... | |
| Reply by: PrinceofCheese at Apr 04, '08 08:16 | |
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For fuck sake, Ellis, we wait weeks for your first speech of any note as a CL (as opposed to setting up the 13th or a bookie organisation) and it's just you pontificating about how you're better than someone without years (literally, years) of experience? Jesus, what a fucking disappointment. Perhaps if your bloodline keeps getting chances to lead without ever cementing your name 'up there' with the likes of Anita, Scotland, Izzy, Ray and co means that you're not actually that good a leader after all and the repeated chances are purely down to your coffee shop friendships? Just hanging the idea out there.... |
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| Reply by: Flangalina at Apr 04, '08 09:43 | |
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Eh this is his first time ever so how is any of that relevant. Note - in reality at least a strong portion of the rationale for authing the above was because of their coffeeshop friends. |
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| Reply by: PrinceofCheese at Apr 04, '08 10:45 | |
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