So, apologies in advance, this might be a long winded post.

I know this won't be actioned now, but I think for V2 we need to completely re-work the forums.

Firstly, I think we need to have a separate forum for Roleplays, and by roleplays I mean the long assed stories about your character, its history, its interaction with NPCs etc. I have always said that the place for RP is the Business district, after all that is what the Business district is for, right? But I realise that some people don't like to post their RPs in the BD, either because it isn't suitable for any of the businesses or they are billy-no-mates and its a solo effort about their long lost love and the 2,364 years of their life history prior to becoming a mafioso.

Yep, I am not a fan of RPs, but I do read them, most are so-so and pretty much the same old shit, some are outstanding, and as good as many a professional piece I have read. So I do believe that the RPs should have a forum of their own, where people who like RPs can post away to their hearts content, and those who like to read them can read away to their hearts content. They should also have their own rewards for posting their stories (another reason is some folks can write for literally hours, generating hundreds of responses to their own inane story, and have like 5 people in the whole game read it, and perhaps tip one post 20k, yet still clean up on EXP, Vision, Credits, Lottery tickets etc)

The Streets - The streets to me have always been about Announcements, debates and discussion. Is that not what the streets should be about? After all, if a group of Mafioso met in the street, they are not gonna sit around and tell people their life stories. Newspapers I would also lump in with the streets (They are an announcement of sorts.) However, I think that there needs to be some kind of public moderation of what is in the streets. The way things are at the moment, you can post the biggest load of shit, complete and utter bollocks, that no one has any interest in reading or interacting with, and the game rewards you. You have received a lottery ticket, a hustle point, a credit, for having 274,000 utterly banal posts about shit that no one cares about out of the 274,002 posts that the game considers suitable posts. I would suggest a down vote here, but Squishy has stated in the past that he is concerned it would be used erroneously, such as Me and my mates (so that's just me then) ganging up to down vote someone just because we don't like them, were jealous of them, weren't sent nudes by them etc... 

But we need some way to moderate the quality of street posts. You can't report a post for being shit or boring or anything similar because it doesn't go against the community guidelines. If we add upvotes to the posts, then they simply become some kind of popularity contest. Yeah, so and so posted, upvote, oh wow, more crap from him or her, down vote. So I think the downvote has to be carefully moderated itself. You get 1 downvote per thread, linked to your master account, so that you can't suicide or get murdered and comeback and down vote again. You can't downvote a thread that is older than you, or made within 24 hours of your death (This prevents butt hurt people killed in a takedown from downvoting an explanation speech en masse). A staggered tier system for the influence of the downvote, 5% of the site and you get 50% of the posting reward, 10% and you get 0% For example. (all examples are flexible, open to discussion and final approval resides with the owner/coders). Any post that falls into the penalty field would be flagged to the street sweepers, not to be swept away, but to have final say on whether someone is being victimised or if their post is actually banal/boring/shit.

Business Districts are boosted to be equal to the streets in value. Not everyone is a leader, but every one should be rewarded for getting with their friends/friend/distant associate in the same crew and posting an interaction over a pint in the BD. The current reporting system in place within the game should be more than adequate to deal with spam/plagiarism/people being cunts. The only changes I would like to see is that the owner of a business can post in it from anywhere. It is shit hard to run a successful business from 12 hours away. I have sat in a city all day and no one has posted, and I know the second I fly from NY to LA some cunt will rock up and order a chilli cheese dog, and have to wait 12 hours for me to fly back and interact with them, and by that time they are now in Chicago buying peanuts from a vendor while watching a Cubs game. I would also like to see Businesses tied to the master account, and when you die, and sign back up, you get a one time offer to 'inherit' your parents businesses. This will allow for businesses to be passed down through the generations, for the rewards of running that business to be passed on, and for their to be a reward for genuinely caring about the finely crafted business you have spent hours of your life creating.

Don't want to run the business, tell the game to go fuck itself and it becomes like every other business owned by a dead guy. Pass this time but then decide next character 'no, I want that business back!' Tough luck, the IRS seized that shit and sold the hell out of it to pay your estate debts when your granddaddy died. And that's basically it.

All the other forums can stay pretty much as is, except for the 'post a well thought out post in the OOC forum' requirement. I always skip that, change it to something that may benefit the game and breath life back into it, like post a well crafted response or post in the BD, or the streets, or god forbid, the RP district.

So I think that is about it, perhaps I'll remember something else and post it later, but for now I'm done until you guys rip this apart, or ignore it entirely... tl:dr

GentlemanRancher, the streets have been dead for a long time. There is no discussion. People seldom announce new crews or GFs now (Been a slight upswing in recent months) and there is seldom a reason given for a takedown. What there is is often crass and boorish, and is an attack on people who play the game, either because they like to write stories, or because its funny to make someone to hate the game and stop playing apparently. Oh lets all have fun driving people away from the game. The streets are dead because we lack players, and we lack players because the same shit happens again and again. New folks sign up occasionally, and they are driven away, through victimisation, harassment or lack of engagement.

We are down to under 400 players... There are more CAs in CH right now than active players in the game. I remember a time when the streets were alive, and we had 2-3000 players, but I would rather the streets were permanently closed than read any more of the shit that passes for posts over the last few years. 

I would rather the streets were permanently closed than read any more of the shit that passes for posts over the last few years. 

That is sum and total of what this suggestion means to achieve, which is why I am against it. You don't have to read anything, fill the streets with content you enjoy, partake in what interests you and ignore the rest, it is entirely within the power of rational adults to determine the tenor of discussion as you see fit without pining for the systematic marginalization of material that personally upsets you

Thank you Squishy

Most of that seems fine, I like the idea of trying to separate the roleplay from the announcements. Still, at the same time, I think having too many tabs would just lend to less posting and not more, as the business districts are already scarcely used and making a third one for other posts would just split things up further and make everything look a lot more barren, especially during times when there aren't a lot of posters around.

I would be more okay with morphing the business districts in with this second part of the streets and just have all non-announcement and newspaper-type threads be placed into one giant "City - 1950's Roleplay" section that has an overarching "city RP" for things that don't quite need to be placed into a specific city like an origins story or things of that nature and then a sub-section for every city where you can only use that specific cities BDs if you're:

A) In that City

B) Are posting in your own business

and then the other would be just titled "Streets - Announcements" or something like that where both have the same amount of vision and weight.

I'm not sure how much this would fix the problem, since the death of the streets has been a problem that has been spoken about for at least 7 years now, but if there is anyone out there who stopped posting in the Streets because of how difficult it has become to not be targetted then maybe it would help enough to bring some things back, and those who only care about announcements would now have a place they can check without having to wade through the things they aren't interested in, which I think would increase the number of announcements overall.

My last point would be on the downvotes: It sounds good in theory, but it is one of those things that at the end of the day wouldn't really do much, because how many people are actually going to downvote when tipping is already scarcely used? and if downvoting does become popular, how many times will it be a discord telling all of their people to go downvote the whiner compared to an actual terrible post being downvoted for being actually terrible? I just see too many ways it could become abused more than actually helpful.

Ah, yeah. I didn't know the forums would be changed that much, I have no issue with that, but I'd obviously have to see it first to really fully understand what it would like, but I'm assuming it will be fully customizable? Sounds fine to me. My thoughts were under the presumption that it would be how it is now. 

Its not an argument for mundanity GentlemanRancher, its an argument for the streets to actually be about the game, and not some crass attempt to ridicule people or drive them from the game for no other reason than shits and giggles.

I have tried to put as many checks and balances in to ensure that it can't be weaponised, but I am open for more to be added. There have been plenty of great posts in the past that have attacked a character for legitimate reasons, or newspaper reports that have bordered on Roasts that have been perfectly acceptable, for example see pretty much every newspaper put out by Grin. But thee is a difference in quality posts that actually enhance user participation and the user experience, and those designed to simply make someone quit the game, or to piss someone off for no other reason than for shits and giggles.

And if feedback for a post is positive, then it will outweigh the down votes, hence again why I asked for all final decisions to be referred to the street sweepers. I am not looking for a one colour fits all game, but I do want a game where people can't game the system by just posting mindless shite that no one wants to read.

And you stated that I don't have to read the posts, but that's just it, I do. I have played this game for a hell of a long time, and I care about the community, so I spend time every day reading street posts, reading the responses, wanting to interact with them. The streets were never a sandbox area, your actions and reactions in the streets were always held to a standard, but that standard died long ago, and when I can post anything I want about anyone I want, and hide behind a potential -10 if you shoot me, and come back again tomorrow and do it all over again, or post absolute rubbish and game the system out of credits and hustle points and lottery tickets, then that is a failing on us as a community. Its not about personal upset, its about restoring that pride and higher standard that we once had.

If you want to come to the streets and post about how shit a CL or a GF is, be my guest, but at least back it up by facts and not random gibberish just to game the system.

I remember when posting on the streets got big accounts killed and the main objection to what went on was to that.  People talked about it killing the streets.  I was one of them.

I remember people talking about RP straying out of organised crime subjects.  People talked about it killing the streets. I was one of them. 

I remember people talking about a lack of newspapers and talking points. People said it was killing the streets.  I was one of them. 

I was right and I was wrong.  Some things stifle the streets but as long as there are players there will be street activity. 

See, the streets are a living breathing thing. And sometimes they're more active and sometimes they're not active at all. I think the admins have done a lot to encourage engagement and I applaud them for it. 

Are things quiet just now? Hmm, not really? 

Might not be the exact style you're into but to borrow a phrase, it's an open canvas.  Step up: be heard.

I'd love to see long newspapers, reports, debates. And I wish we had a CL Commission publishing rulings.