Get Timers Now!
X
 
Apr 28 - 22:39:21
-1
Page:  1 
Ideas for improving the RATTLE event. Started by: Squishy on Aug 09, '23 19:37

Excuse the jumbled wall of text, but these are some really rough ideas for improving the RATTLE event - I encourage any opinions on them and any additions that we can add to really hone this into a solid event.

==========TIES IN FIRST - TIE BREAKER==========

Tie Breakers.... Our current method was whomever got the most recent kill of the people tied in first place was the winner.
 - A half hour event should be 29 rounds, with the 30th round only happening if at 29 there are ties, if there are, then regardless of cooldown, all tied people are pooled for a final round.

If there is a tie and it comes down to the tie breaker, the winner gets everyones buyin but the freebie buyin from house goes to whoever lost the tiebreaker (or split among, if there are multiples).

==============POOL SELECTION RNG===============

As of now the RNG that produces the pool is 100% pure rng, it works as follows:

Each channel has a certain chance that its activity in it is included in the "build a list of people who are active on lounge"

Channel Activity Weight
Main Activity    100% (Meaning, every main pool will look at the last active time in Main)
Trivia Activity    50% (Meaning, 50% of main pools will also add #trivia's last active time into the mix)
City Activity    50% (Meaning, 50% of main pools will also add #(insert city here)'s last active time into the mix)
District Activity    45% (Meaning, 45% of main pools will also add #(insert district here)'s last active time into the mix
Crew Activity    40% (Meaning, 40% of main pools will also add #(insert crew here)'s last active time into the mix

So lets say it ends up picking #main (always) and City and Crew to build the main pool.  As long as you were active in the past 8 minutes in either of those 3 channels, it adds you to the main pool.  Now that it has built the main pool (the names you see listed on the Rat eligibility page), it will take 50% of those names and send them invites to the RAT.

Because the very nature of math itself, a coin wont flip heads, then tails, then heads, then tails, then heads, but in the long term it is 50/50 - there is a chance you get skipped the first pool because you were in the OTHER 50% that didnt get pooled.  Then on the next pool, you may land in the wrong side of the 50% yet again.  With that being said, I don't like fudging math, I believe that the RNG sometimes fucks you, and sometimes showers you with love, balancing itself out over time.  Due to gamblers falacy or 

So, now that the RNG is explained, let me explain that I am not a fan of fudging the numbers to make it "more fair", because the current system is fair, for everyone who gets screwed in one instance, they benefit in another (but we tend to not look at it that way and only focus on the bad ones that come to mind).  To make it appear more fair, we can do weighted pools.  This means that lets say that theres 16 people, and 50% (8) get selected for the pool leaving the other 8 waiting (who will then be joined by people later on that minute who are just coming off their previous cool down).  We can give a little extra weight to those already waiting who were skipped the previous pool so that they have a slightly better chance of getting picked the 2nd time around, this increases every time they end up on the wrong side of the RNG, until they get picked.  

So if we went this direction, we are lessening the RNGs role in pool selection and giving it more of a 'everyone waits their turn, and the longer they wait, the higher chance it manipulates the math for you to be in the pool'.  Not a fan, but I can see how this would be desirable for those that can't get past that a coin can land on tails 2-3 times in a row.

==============CAPPING THE ROUNDS===============

I think if we cap the signups at 20-25, then we should have decent size pools without people waiting forever to get into one.

=============EARLY BUYIN DISCOUNT==============

If most signups for a round happen moments before it starts, its hard to predict which rounds you may want to be in based on competition ahead of time- so I am thinking that signups 12h before the event run a 10% less buy in, signups after 12h at full price - thus giving the players a little push to sign up early.

===============CREW INCENTIVES=================

Its always tricky to come up with a way to reward families that work together to compete when you factor in all the different family sizes, and that people technically could switch families during the event to stack the deck a bit - but, I am down for any suggestions on how to create an atmosphere that encourages families to enter in a competition to represent their family/district/city.  Can any of you share what your family/district/city did that was effective in getting you to sign up and represent on rattle day?

Report Post Tips: 22 / Total: $440,000 Tip

Love your ideas, Izzy! 

When it comes to the RNG, I'm alright with the way its 100%. If people don't get pooled so often, oh well, buy yourself into another round and hope you'll be more lucky. As you said, it should even out in the end :P

Our family/city didn't do a whole lot to get others to join, but it seemed a lot of people were happy to join either way because it sounded fun. But maybe you could include a prize for the family (best 1 or top 3?) who did the best overall? Like, for the family that had either most participants or won most rounds, everyone in said family would get a few hustle points/pied pipers/whatever seems appropriate. 

Just an idea if that would be something to consider :)

Report Post Tip

MY PROPOSAL

Step 1) Remove the house extra (house adds nothing to the pot and it is now forced to be completely user based)

Step 2) Lower the most expensive entry to 10 mill (More people will now enter and also the multiplier won't have people winning potentially way too much money)

You start with a base of x1.00

Each Godfather from [City] that enters at least 3 rounds or spends at least 2.5 million total adds 0.05

Each CL from [City] that enters at least 3 rounds or spends at least 2.5 million total adds 0.04

Each member of that city which enters at least 3 rounds or spends at least 2.5 million total adds 0.02

So lets say all 3 GFs enter would make it 0.15 and then 4 CLs count which makes it 0.16 and 7 total members enter which gives it 0.14. Anyone who wins a round from this city will now get x1.45 tacked on. So if the pot was $180 million they now get $261,000,000. 

OR

The extra money ($81,000,000) could be split amongst everyone who entered from that city so that the winner doesn't just receive it all, which further incentivizes more people to join.


This could be changed up mathematically to make it work better and I don't really know math so I could be extremely off base, but I just like the idea of having a multiplier that goes up based on how many people from your city enter. This would force Godfathers and CLs to rely on their members also entering if they want the maximum amount of cash, and vice versa for members to make sure they're in a city where the Godfathers and CLs care enough to enter these sorts of things.

The only downside would be that DT and CH have by rule have less Godfathers and Leaders than other cities, but they could also just receive a higher bonus for being smaller. (0.08 instead of 0.05 etc;)

idk thought it sounded neat in my head

Report Post Tips: 2 / Total: $40,000 Tip

What if the majority of the Rats where every man for themselves, but some rounds were a "Best crew/District/City"? Only downside to that is limiting the number of sign ups means if you don't sign up early you're fucked. 

Report Post Tip

I enjoyed it thoroughly and was glad it wasn't an event that required teamwork or coordination. I was able to come and go as I pleased. I would prefer it remain like this. Izzy I think your ideas are perfect, particularly the early signup bonus. 

Report Post Tip

Keep it in your pants Dixie_Rect

Report Post Tips: 2 / Total: $40,000 Tip

I very much like BusterScrugs idea of a multiplier based on participation. I would also be up for round winnings to be shared by the crew of the winner or the city of the winner for selected rounds. 

I like the idea of a 30th round for a tiebreak with a forced pool for those tied at the end. 

The only thing which seriously annoyed me was solo pools. In a particular round, I was beaten by a guy who had 2 x solo pool kills (Which jostled my jimmies) Plenty of people were eligible it was just bad RNG. Maybe try and set something just for the RATTLE event where min pool must be greater than 1.

I would also suggest looking at the pied piper for these events, either tweak how it works or turn it off. Despite a lot of activity, I found out I was hamstrung with the pied piper perk due to my crew's standings in the RAT top 10. If people are already killing lots of RATs (Hence being in the top 10) giving them boosts to have the potential to kill even more isn't a good way to promote competition for the top 10 places. 

All in all, though it was a great event. Would do again /10

Report Post Tips: 1 / Total: $20,000 Tip

Just a few clarifications:

The only thing which seriously annoyed me was solo pools. In a particular round, I was beaten by a guy who had 2 x solo pool kills (Which jostled my jimmies) Plenty of people were eligible it was just bad RNG. Maybe try and set something just for the RATTLE event where min pool must be greater than 1.

If there is a solo pool, that means that 50% of all eligible people from the channels selected were picked.  So that means that only 2 people were eligible, with 50% of them being selected.  I spent about 2 hours looking into this, and every solo pool that I looked at was the result of people not meeting the requirements to join the pool.  (Most often it was because they were more than X minutes IA in the channels selected to build the pools from).  #main is the only channel where its activity is 100% of the time selected (You can view the % breakdowns on the Rat Eligibility page by clicking the rat icon at the top of your screen).  Time goes by pretty fast during the rats, before you know it you are IA for a few minutes past the required time to be included.  Also, the bot does not record activity for very very very short lines, saying things "lol", random emoji's or "nice shot" every few minutes will get you in 0 pools.

 

I would also suggest looking at the pied piper for these events, either tweak how it works or turn it off. Despite a lot of activity, I found out I was hamstrung with the pied piper perk due to my crew's standings in the RAT top 10. If people are already killing lots of RATs (Hence being in the top 10) giving them boosts to have the potential to kill even more isn't a good way to promote competition for the top 10 places. 

We made sure we put "All forms of Pied Piper work during the event with the exception of KOH and RAT Leaderboard." in the sign up page for the event to let players know that their crews standings in the leaderboard, or with KOH will not trigger Pied Piper.   We thought it would be a little unfair if pied from out of your control was triggering for you (or your competition), so the only pied that would trigger are ones that are directly in the control of the shooter.

Report Post Tips: 1 / Total: $20,000 Tip

If there is a solo pool, that means that 50% of all eligible people from the channels selected were picked.  So that means that only 2 people were eligible, with 50% of them being selected.  I spent about 2 hours looking into this, and every solo pool that I looked at was the result of people not meeting the requirements to join the pool.  (Most often it was because they were more than X minutes IA in the channels selected to build the pools from).  #main is the only channel where its activity is 100% of the time selected (You can view the % breakdowns on the Rat Eligibility page by clicking the rat icon at the top of your screen).  Time goes by pretty fast during the rats, before you know it you are IA for a few minutes past the required time to be included.  Also, the bot does not record activity for very very very short lines, saying things "lol", random emoji's or "nice shot" every few minutes will get you in 0 pools.

 

Thank you for taking the time to look into it. From your explanation, it just looks like I was unlucky & that there was only me & the person who got the solo pools eligible for both. I just got back-to-back bad luck on a 50% chance (Which is fine and understandable)
I still think the point of 'the pool must be greater than 1' is valid but as per your explanation if enough people are not eligible it is what it is. I would still sooner have the 50% chance of a solo pool than a fail/restart of the round.

We made sure we put "All forms of Pied Piper work during the event with the exception of KOH and RAT Leaderboard." in the sign up page for the event to let players know that their crews standings in the leaderboard, or with KOH will not trigger Pied Piper.   We thought it would be a little unfair if pied from out of your control was triggering for you (or your competition), so the only pied that would trigger are ones that are directly in the control of the shooter.

I 100% missed that on the signup page! My mistake. Looks like both of my 'suggestions' are already taken care of so a big thumbs up from me. 

Report Post Tip

Ok new suggestion based on people saying the single pools etc - we know I'm a big fan of people having to work a bit to be eligible, but I think when you know the event is going to be busy and how main was in a lot of the rounds I was in (specifically 1 & 2 though holy shit) I'd propose perhaps increasing the weights. 

Channel Activity Weight
Main Activity 100%
Trivia Activity 50%
City Activity 80%
District Activity 70%
Crew Activity 60%

 

Why?

Means you can keep up with conversations in main, so you don't have 30 people just babbling because there are no real conversations to be had at this time.

Also if you're on your 10th round, you might be sick of main and just want a nice chill chat somewhere else.

Plus increasing the weight in the city/district means the channel might be more active and build friendships and shit with the people in your city. 

I don't want to make the requirements to get pooled less or easier, but I think making it so you don't have to sit in main for an entire day when you might wanna murder but need a wee little break from the masses. 

Report Post Tips: 1 / Total: $20,000 Tip
If we could go one day, one single day without seeing obvious spam to trick the bot, then I would consider it.

I just can't simply lower the bar any lower than it currently is.

I would love to see some family pride in how their members promote and protect their brand. A little self-governing would go a long way, but until then, I can't up the values any higher than it currently is.
Report Post Tip

I hate that you're not wrong lol. 

Maybe boost Trivia a smidge then just so those of us with shitty social batteries can have a breather? Given the requirements you'd still have to actually talk in there, and it can be monitored by HD etc during? Obviously, this would only be for another rattle event where there is money on the line. 

Report Post Tips: 4 / Total: $80,000 Tip

One suggestion and idea that I would like to see feedback on if people have any.

For a few selected rounds (Not the whole event. Maybe 1 at either end & one in the middle to cater for time zone difference) we have a couple of seeded rounds. What I mean is we have a champion's round where the top 20 Ratters (All time) can enter but others are locked out. Next round 21-40, third round 41-60. Maybe with a bigger prize or some extra +1s for the winners. 

Would be good for bragging rights and add some variety. Would also mean the same old fast people don't keep acting as flat-track bullies and beating the slower guys (Me mostly!) 

Report Post Tip

News & Announcements
Replying to: Ideas for improving the RATTLE event.
Compose Body:

@Mention Notifications: On More info
How much do you want to tip for this post?

Minimum $20,000

(NaN)
G2
G1
L
H
D
C
Private Conversations
0 PLAYERS IN CHANNEL