Thor pushes his way through the crowds to make his way to the good ol' soapbox, in doing so he is guarding his pockets with his hands and looking over his shoulder constantly to deter would be pocket dippers. He makes it to the front and begins to speak up about an ongoing problem across the cities.

Ladies and gentleman (and Stamina)

For several years now there has been much confusion and many differences regarding the use of pickpocketing. This is a city wide problem which has never really been 'fixed'. Almost every day wandering the streets i see someone cursing that their wallets or purses have disappeared with no idea how, when or what happened. I believe something needs to be done to straighten out the problem and maybe come to some sort of solution. Before we continue let's take a look at each cities stance on pickpocketing:

* Chicago ~ Chicago members are expected to ONLY pickpocket those that are friendly to it. We expect the same from the visitors in our city. That means only those who state "Pickpocket/PP friendly" or some variation thereof.

* New York ~ Not specified

* Philadelphia ~ Not specified

* Las Vegas ~ Not specified

* Los Angeles ~ Los Angeles mobsters will only pickpocket those who are friendly to it. We expect the same from our visitors to the city.

* New Orleans ~ New Orleans members are expected to ONLY pickpocket those that are friendly to it, visitors are expected to follow the same rule. That means only those who state "Pickpocket friendly".

* Detroit ~ Detroit members are expected to only pickpocket those that are friendly to it. We expect the same from the visitors in our city. That means only those who state "Pickpocket/PP friendly" or some variation thereof.

* St Louis ~ Not specified

As you can see, half the cities don't even have rules regarding pickpocketing, while the other half say pretty much the exact same thing. So straight away there is an unbalance therefore it is easy to see why there is a lot of confusion. Most people now mark themselves with some form of tag, ie, 'Do Not PP, Not PP friendly, PP friendly, return what you take'. But let's be honest, does anyone REALLY take any notice to this? Some do, but the majority do not. It is easy to just sit back and say 'ask the person beforehand' but really, you want to ask someone if you can steal their money then give it back to them? Seems a bit odd to me. Pickpocketing is an attack, even more so with people now being able to figure out their victims defences, getting a good idea of how many bodyguards someone has. This is causing quite a stir amongst many people.

I believe what we need is a rule in place across all 8 cities that everyone abides to. Going back in history a bit a leader called PoisonousJelly introduced a rule as follows: If you were below Made Man rank, you were not allowed to pickpocket anyone ranked Made Man and above. If you were Made Man or above you could only pickpocket someone below your rank. A few cities adopted the idea but after wars the idea was phased out. I have been thinking about coming up with a solution to pickpocketing that all cities could adopt so there could be no more bitching and the rule was there plain and clear for all to see. I propose that all cities consider enforcing the following changes:

* You can only pickpocket a person from another city when you're in YOUR home city, thus making the target a visitor, hence fair game. However, ranks below Made Man are forbidden from pickpocketing ranks of Made Man and above.

* If you do break this rule, then you must have written consent from the person allowing you to pickpocket them.

* If you're pickpocketing a fellow family/city member then no consent is needed regardless of what city you're in.

There is my idea, it would just be nice to finally have something set in stone for all to follow, like we do in regards to MIA's. It doesn't necessarily need to be what i have suggested now, that is just my idea. If you have any ideas please step up and share, hopefully together we can get something done.

Thor nods to the crowd and heads off to get some much needed rest.

This is a very good idea, Pick Pocketing seems to be harder and harder to do with more people not being Pick Pocket friendly. I think maybe PPing the members under the rank of made should be allowed in cities not your home, but that's just a personal preference of mine.

Simplicity listened to the man speaking and took in what he had to say. She was never really one to pickpocket, but she would do so on occasion to friends or family. As she waited for him to finish she then thought over what he had told the masses. She agreed with some of the points he made, but felt some could use a tweak.

When he finished, Simplicity, waited a moment for the applause to die down. It was the nice thing to do after someone gave a speech, unless of course the person was a blubbering idiot, throwing disrespect everywhere. Which this speech was far from.

"I agree it would be nice to have a city wide rule put forth. Your idea is a good one, but the only issue I come across is only being allowed to pickpocket others in your own city. I could understand this if you were pickpocketing them without asking or caring if they are friendly or not, but what if you are in another city and wish to pickpocket someone while there? Are you just not allowed to? Or are you allowed, but have to ask first? Granted this would go against what you said as pickpocketing being an attack. Since asking someone no longer makes it an attack, it makes it a friendly action that is known. When in all reality pickpocketing is something you attempt to do without them knowing!"

"If you are saying we can only pickpocket family or fellow city members, like another Chicago member for myself, while in another city then that would make pickpocketing a much less occurring event and take away from the attack we're trying to bring it back to. At least that is what I think we are doing."

"In my opinion I don't really feel anyone should be allowed to be PP friendly or not. Why should you have a choice if someone pickpockets you? Pickpocketing isn't meant to be nice."

"I do agree with the whole Made Man and above idea. It makes the Made Man rank seem like you are really becoming apart of the family, which I believe is the way it is intended. It also brings in respect. Those who are below Made Man aren't really supposed to have any respect yet and are supposed to work hard to earn it. While those who have obtained Made Man or higher deserve the respect of those below them."

Simplicity paused and thought a bit more. She covered all that she really wanted to say and smiled.

"That is all I really have to say about the idea. Overall I find it to be a good one, but then again. I don't mind have my pockets fiddled with, as losing 5,000 is nothing to me."

Then taking a step back she allowed for others to speak up, whether they agreed or disagreed.

Do people like getting wacked?  No.

Do people like getting their bodyguards shot at?  No.

Why? 

Because it's considered an attack.

Pickpocketing is also considered an attack.

(OOC: Think about it, in the real world if you were walking down the streets and someone took you wallet, you would okay with it?   No way! You'd chase the man if you were bigger than him and call the cops if you think you couldn't put up a fight.)

I wouldn't say there is confusion about pickpocketing.  I think there are rules.  If someone says "Don't PP" that means you are NOT ALLOWED to pickpocket the person. 

The problem is with enforcing this rule and making people abide by it.  The consequence of pickpocketing is where the problem lies.  People just get slapped on the wrist for it.  Perhaps if there was a larger monetary fine it would give people more incentive to abide by the rules. 

As favourable as it would be for someone like me constantly wiggling my fingers in a victims pockers, Furby's NPM's especially i also have a difficult time honing my skills in this area.  Gnerally i dont mind people sticking there hands in my pocket for 2 reasons, i never have any real money in there and is a hole in my pocket (which comes as a surprise to some and attracts others) which saves me paying for alternative fun at the local brothel.

I generally would pay attention to city rules if there was some in place, but i believe the pp friendly sufficient in general.  I wouldnt avoid a city if there was a no PP rule as generally i am looking for the profits of my export business.  I can understand peoples feelings that its an attack, and previous relatives of mine have felt this way. 

If those who werent made were allowed as targets i would find it a lot easier to find targets to get that little bit more fun out of the daily routine which is missing for some.  However i understand this may come to the frustration of those who are not made yet so I would feel dissapointed for some of those having this forced upon them, and possibly leading to retaliation down the line.

Kriminal, if I can just pick up something you said there;

"Pickpocketing is also considered an attack." - I hate the perception that its an attack. I really really do.

I can understand the fact people don't see it believable that a mobster would steal from a fellow mobster and get away with it, however, do we really need everything in this thing of ours to mimic that other world people speak of? Really?

The only argument I can appreciate from targets is the protection one. If someone is concerned that allowing a person to attempt to steal their wallet gives that person an indication of the ability, or quantity, of their protection, then I can understand them not wanting to allow it.

Dont know about you folks, but id much rather have someone fondle my pocket, than shoot my BodyGuards or kill me personally.

i don't know about the others but i wanna speak up damn it, about this of course...
why are we forbidden PPing someone that have rank above us?...

isn't it fair already it's like "if you're stronger your money won't be taken / if you're weaker i'll take your money"
and of course there are risks too... if you tried to pp someone, sometimes you failed and sometimes you get beaten by the victim...

isn't it enough like that?

(OOC: in real life the person who mugged you doesn't care whether you're pp friendly or not right? they just mugged you)

and if you don't like to be pp then deposit your money in the bank simple as that and if someone catches you off guard that's a fair game teaches you to never let your guard down...

so my point is why should we care about "not pp friendly" words? (at least i don't pp someone who isn't pp friendly due to respect to them)...

i'm just saying...

I have to agree with Donatello here on that point.

(OOC 1stly arnt we criminals? I beleive that the mafia is full of proberly the biggest sociopaths ever, You dont want your money stolen then bank it simple, Me personly i dont care you rob me keep it you earned it if i catch you well i might try to rob you back. Would rather be robbed then killed)

AlabamaWorley,

You hate the perception that PP is considered an attack.  That is your perception, and I respect you perception.  But just as I respect yours, other people should respect those who do consider PP an attack, such as myself.  That's why the people who get offended by pickpocketing let people know in their profile while people that don't care, well they just don't care.  You say we shouldn't have to mimic the real world in everything we do here.  We shouldn't nor can we.  However, pickpocketing should.  As in real life, people would rather get pickpocketed than get shot or have their bodyguards get shot...but in real life people would rather keep their money in their pockets rather than have it stolen.  However, I think you missed the key point of my argument.  My main point was that there is no problem with the current pickpocketing system right now.   You can pickpocket whoever you want as long as they don't have a "Don't PP tag on it." I think that is fair and a pretty straight forward rule.  The author of this poster claims there is confusion amongst the cities which I do not see.  I simply see a lack of enforcement of the current pickpocket rules.

Stan_The_Man_Smith, your name is extremely difficult to type.  You are right, this world is fully of crazy mobsters.  Just because we are all criminals doesn't mean we don't have rules within the family.  For example loyalty.   We don't care about the pigs, or banks, but within the mafia we respect one another. 

Donatello and Stan, you speak of putting money in the bank if you don't like getting pickpocketed.  There are a couple problems with that, the main one being NPMs cannot deposit money in their banks.  Regardless, that is a terrible solution.  How about if you don't like to get pickpocketed you simply put that in your profile and everyone else should just respect it?

It does seem odd to me that the people who are opposed to being pick pocketed are the ones who have to tag up when common sense dictates that people, in general, don’t like being robbed.

Its not odd at all, Mank.

People should always ask prior to making an attempt on someones pocket, simply as a mark of respect. IMO anyway.

However if someone has those markings, I wouldn't even bother asking at all as its obvious they wouldn't be interested. So I'd move onto someone else to play with.

Question

How does one apply 'rules' to what is basically, an aggressive criminal activity?

Surely it's just a case of risk versus reward?

I must say I agree with Kriminal & maybe if people where fined more for pick pocketing people they shouldn't. I know that some of my family before me have fined people 100k for dipping their hands in my pockets succeed or fail.