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| MR - I need your views | Started by: Numbers4Glory on May 16, '08 16:57 |
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Hello MafiaReturns, how are we all doing? Well, I hope? Good. The coffeeshop/MafiaReturns line is as blurred now as it has even been. Probably more so than when people used to complain about being punished for coffeeshop remarks back in the day. Still I sit here wondering the answers to various questions that you may have heard before. However, the difference is how far we've moved on since then and well, I want to gauge public opinion on what we feel is acceptable and what isn't. This will take some imagination and honesty on your part - I know this will pose a problem for some. What I'm going to ask you all to do for me is to close your eyes and pretend for a moment you are running the streets of the Six Cities. Exciting, no? Here you are, Mr Bigshot, Fancy Dan crewleader, operating out of one of our illustrious cities. You've doubtlessly killed people on your way to the top and whether you're the nicest mobster ever to don a pinstripe suit, you've got to protect your image. Our situation puts you, our powerful crewleader, as the recipient of a regular intelligence report. This intelligence report outlines to you that certain individuals have been running their mouths about you, your mother, your age, your intelligence - pretty much anything that might get a rise out of you. Obviously this is distressing news to you. Why would these guys be so mean? I don't know imaginary crewleader, I really don't. Still, let us continue to set the scene. Your intelligence suggests these mean individuals have virtually identical twins roaming on our streets. One of these twins will complain about you on IRC if you do anything at all to them in our world, they use IRC, where they have some semblance of power and respect as a means of combating your dominance over the game. They often use IRC as a response to things you do to them in game, be that debates, demotions or deaths. Expect to find yourself on the receiving end of some abuse, mockery or ban as a result of you doing anything to either twin. One twin is calling you out. The other is smiling at you. These two people are so hard to tell the difference between and not just in appearance that they can often be considered to be the same. Both in their views, opinions, attitudes and friends. So, what do you do? You know that this person has been badmouthing you on IRC. Would you tolerate this if it had been uttered by their twin in our world? You also know that they are incapable of distinguishing between IRC and our world, they talk business, they act identically - they are one and the same. Therefore are they not just calling you anything they can and trying to pull a fast one to get away with it? Do you pretend they are different when clearly they are not playing by the same set of rules? Do you stick to what their twin in our world does? Do you decide to say fuck it, it is obvious what is going on and smash them as a result? I'm keen to hear your takes on it. Numbers4Glory (C)ancerous (P)layer |
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A troubling paradox......slapping you with one hand while greeting you with the other. Though my opinion may not be the popular one, it is the simple one. This sort of disrespect cannot nor should not be tolerated by anyone, let alone by those who lead us. |
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| Reply by: Maddog at May 16, '08 17:12 | |
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I have to say you're correct in the fact that what people say around the streets and bars and what people talk about in coffee shops is a huge grey area. Now for your point in question I would personally take the person or persons to one side in the coffee shops alone and find out hat they thought they were playing at when they uttered these comments I mean you cant just ignore these comments when they have came to light otherwise how can you ever trust said individual. If the explanation they come out with doesn't add up I would make an example of them and let people know that no matter if it is in the coffee shops any disrespectful comments wont be tolerated. After all if someone is willing to speak like that when they think you won't find out, then aren't they just blatantly lying to you when they see you in person and pretend everything is fine and dandy? Just my opinion on this but if I was in this situation I wouldn't be able to let it slide and I would be having serious words. People need to realise that if you go around spouting disrespect then there will be consequences no matter if it's in a coffee shop in supposed privacy or in the middle of the street for all to hear. |
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| Reply by: TheLoveDoctor at May 16, '08 17:18 | |
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| I have always felt that what happens in the Coffee shop known as #DivineLunacy stays in there. Whereas places that are perfectly clearly linked and advertised as crew rooms falls within the context of the game. | |
| Reply by: Romeo at May 16, '08 17:43 | |
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Most of us know if we live our criminal life properly - the two would be distinctly different and not effect in world actions. What is said in the coffee shops would stay there and emotions and feelings (positive or negative) would not transfers back into the streets..but we all know often this is not true.. call it human nature I suppose. Looks into the coffee shop through the window.. watching some harass and some laugh.. You know I stop by every now and then to talk to some connects I have but other than that, the streets is where I roam |
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| Reply by: Alfonzo at May 16, '08 18:04 | |
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Respect is everything regardless of what your thinking. People that hate are everywhere, to them I say your jealousy shows. If someone thinks they can get away with saying something behind my back then coming to me with a smile on his like evrything is alright I couldnt take it. There is to much responsibility in runnin a family to worry about what people gotta say about you. If it was a family member there would be no excuses under any circumstances. It's so wrong for you to expect to be housed and guided through oranized crime just to turn your back on the one who gave you a oppritunity to shine. If I ever housed someone who I was informed consistenly talked bad about me would get one of two options. Off with his head or a cinderblock chained to his feet. To all of the people who open there mouths disrespecting the top mafiaosos and mafiaosas this is for you. Actions speak louder then words. |
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| Reply by: ChrisPaul at May 16, '08 18:06 | |
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Ah the coffeeshop debate, one that has raged through the years. For quite some time my bloodline did not frequent the coffeeshops at all. In fact I still only drop in there every once in a while. My opinion of the place has changed a lot since I first walked through their doors, at first I thought of it as just another part of this world. But I was told in no uncertain terms that it wasn't. However recently I have noticed that my persona there is quite the same as my persona here, to me the only real difference is that while in the coffeeshops I talk with people who I would never have contact with here. I think that no matter who you are or whatever way you gloss it up the coffeeshops are as much a part of this world as this world is part of that. |
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| Reply by: QuackersVonDuckworth at May 16, '08 18:37 | |
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Bizarre. I could've sworn I came to this thread on the street, when it's so clearly ooc. Doesn't matter anymore I guess. I suppose it doesn't help when developers are doing it too. |
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| Reply by: Carlitos at May 17, '08 01:13 | |
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Your entire argument is flawed when people are killed because of who they are in the coffee shops when they've done nothing to warrant it here on these streets. But by all means, keep playing the put-upon martyr, it's what you do best. PS. If you stopped slagging people for who they date or what kind of parent they are, maybe they'd slag you less for those things you're crying about. Just a thought. |
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| Reply by: Tas at May 17, '08 01:23 | |
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mIRC Avenue is to Our Thing, as is (Service Economy > Goods Economy is to America) I'd like to pull the plug on the whole damn thing, to be honest, as I'd like to bring a goods economy back to America. Just look at the influx in criminals... no jobs, see. Anyways, it's not going to happen... at least in the present. You've probably already made up your mind on the matter of the coffee-shop shit-talkers, If you feel that blood will wash away the tarnish that people have given your name, by all means do so. Personally, I'd ignore it. I'm condoning the shiftiness... but you've got better things to do then worry about people talking behind your back. Fuck em. :) |
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| Reply by: Sal_Giaquinto at May 17, '08 01:40 | |
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***I'm not condoning*** (Sorry, it's late) |
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| Reply by: Sal_Giaquinto at May 17, '08 01:40 | |
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It's late and Eyzlee's heading home from a nice night out on the town. She can't wait till she's able to climb into bed, under the soft sheets and dream about fluffy pillows and endless mountains of banana smoothies. After flipping a cab driver off and telling the driver, even though he couldn't hear her, to watch where he was going a small group across the road caught her eye. Eyzlee joined them and listened to the action. Once the people that stood around seemed to get whatever they needed to say out she stepped up and told them what was on her mind. If someone is running their mouth about how shitty I am and that person is in my crew they are going no where. They will not be promoted, they will not be given trust and they will be given a false sense of respect. If their smack continues and forms into ideas such as planning to take me out, then they will be killed. If this someone is person that does not work under me then they aren't even worth my time. Falling back into the crowd, Eyzlee caught a wiff of pie. 'Oooo Pie!!!' She said excitedly to herself and continued down the street. |
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| Reply by: Eyzlee at May 17, '08 02:05 | |
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Carlitos - Why add more OOC to this thread if it upsets you? Indeed, yours is the most OOC thing in this entire discussion. Tas - Yawn. Things said two years ago and not been repeated = stopped. No? Things said in response to William = He was already saying things. Bored of you. As I've already told you, I haven't killed anyone for anything other than they've done on these streets, so how is my argument flawed? Please provide evidence to the contrary. Added into this that I do not advocate any course of action? Nice to see you taking up your own offer though. Always a surprise when you don't follow up with something. Oh wait, no it isn't. To everyone else who have added their views on this, it is much appreciated. I think much value can be found in the different approaches that people take. Anyone else who wishes to express their opinion is welcome to. |
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| Reply by: Numbers4Glory at May 17, '08 06:27 | |
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Okay. For one, I believe that IRC is being used mostly to point out one's views about things, and people expect that if they say "Numbers4Glory is shit" on IRC, that they should not be punished on game. Then they complain about OOC reasons why they were gunned down. It sucks how people try to put the blame on Numbers, hell, i would probably shoot you if you said anything about my family or friends. It should not be used as a easy way to talk shit and not get in trouble for it. |
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| Reply by: JohnCerasani at May 17, '08 13:17 | |
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If you use something to faciliate part of your success i.e. walking down IRC avenue then you become liable for your actions towards people with more power than you. If you use it to devise strategies in secret rooms, discuss how best to find success, tactic/methodologies/tips then why would that be different to abuse. In summary, if you want to live and be successful don't annoy people who can kill you. That's fucking obvious, too much for some people to understand? Well, they are probably shit ranks... Besides there's no rule around who leaders decide lives and dies, if they don't like your fucking name that's as justified as anything else that can be dreamed up. |
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| Reply by: KingofWheelbarrows at May 17, '08 14:14 | |
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Since the question at hand seems to be a survey of sorts, please forgive me if I repeat (and I will) things that have already been said. Since there cannot be a brightline established between mIRC avenue and these very streets, despite our best efforts I would have to say that if I spoke disrespectfully of anyone in the coffee shops, then I should expect retaliation either there or in these very streets. To bash someone in the coffee shop and then expect them to be my ally in these streets is ridiculous. That's the way this life of ours is, was, and will always be. |
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| Reply by: The_Red_Narc at May 17, '08 14:26 | |
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| I agree. Plot against me while drinking coffee, plot against me in a back alley, either way, I strike back. Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing, but freedom comes with responsibilities. | |
| Reply by: Mr_47 at May 17, '08 15:11 | |
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I think its a matter of where, and what type coffeeshop, If its a shop made for friends and a hangout then let it be, you dont have to see it. Family shop? Whoa, If someone bitched about a hair about me in a family shop i'd want them dead as they are more involved with our world. Private friend hangouts or other public ones I'd let it be. |
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| Reply by: Thierry_Henry at May 17, '08 15:24 | |
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Over time I've come to learn that the coffee shops are a great place to sit back and relax, but even as it's great to relax and talk to friends, we must also remember that what's said in the coffee shops does not stay there, Many meetings happen in the coffee shops, many crews hang out in personal coffee shops and bars. The coffee shops are an extension of this thing of ours for allot of us, Many many rogues have been caught before they bought out because CL's got a recording of a coffee shop conversation... Mainly you gotta look at the coffee shops as part of this thing of ours at least so long as your talking about business or to one of the other mobsters. Coffee shops are great places, but if your looking for some where that doesn't effect life in this thing of ours then you oughta go some where people from this world don't roam and drop your insults and complaints there. |
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| Reply by: Ivory_Ice at May 17, '08 15:51 | |
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I firmly believe that the coffee shops are an additional aspect to our role in mafia life. Not everyone frequents them obviously but they are accessible to every mafioso that walk our streets. Many, many aspects of our life can be directed from the coffee shops, orders can be carried out, information can be quickly provided and wars can be won from these. Well not literally but you get the point. With that being said, if someone acts like a cunt and bad mouths certain individuals in public then only the naive of naive would not expect some sort of repercussions. If I were to be sippping a coffee, chewing the fat, and saying that such and such is a fuckwit and could not organise a piss up in a brewery let alone manage a family, then I would fully expect to be wearing concrete boots at the bottom of the ocean. |
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| Reply by: primaryinfantry at May 17, '08 16:12 | |
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