Looking out over these cities, you see people coming into the streets and the big thing they talk about is democracy.  They talk and are shot down (figuratively most of the time) while being reminded that this lifestyle is not a democracy it's the mafia.

Being new to this thing of yours, it's not a thing of mine yet, I can totally see their point.  In Chicago, it's one man one vote - JJ is that man and he has the vote, it's the same in other cities (except for two) but the whole crux of this life is respect.  Godfather's look down on Don's and all the way down to the likes of little old me who looks up at everyone getting a sore neck in the process.  Interestingly though, while respect is expected to flow up does it really have to be shit that flows down?

I can see the mass intake of breath and you thinking "Robert did not just say that!"  A bit of a generalisation I agree, and a large dollop of artistic licence however hear me out.

There I was a couple of hours ago, minding my own business staring at the sights of New York as a man called Dutch_Man had recommended I do when I felt a tug in my back pocket and I came face to face with this guy in a shiny suit lifting my wallet.  Instinct being instinct I chased this dude down, beat him to a crap and took a pile of cash from him.  A piece of paper fell from his wallet that gave a list of demands:

If I've pp'd you, wait 5 minutes.  Return anything over some trifling amount.

At this point, as the adrenaline was still coursing through my veins, I didn't want to appear like an ass, so as he lay in a bloodied mess I figured I'd not take everything.  So leaving 30k for him to find a bus home, I went on my way only to find a letter from him saying he was going to shoot me.

Now, I'm a big boy.  When I die, I'll take it on the chin…or chest, temple wherever I get shot, however here we have a CL who is happy to delve into the pockets of a potential associate, get spotted and then whine like a tantrumming toddler when he gets some cash taken in a legitimate retribution.

I can hear the anguished cries of "Oh but he is a crewleader, you should do what he says"

The way I see it, you either pick someone's pocket and accept the consequences if you're seen or you don't.  You don't make special rules.  Basically as far as I see it, he's saying "Let me run away"

Is the mafia a democracy, no?  Should we stand for hypocrisy though?  Don't think so. 

Your thoughts.

Ah, the beautiful return mug does wonders. Fantastic little story, I do appreciate you sharing it.

I've never really cared about the "return mug", or how it can affect its victim. However, this life is based on interpretation, not on some concrete structure of justice. Presently, a powerful, wealthy man (which begs the question why he was even pickpocketing you, but I digress) steals from you. Probably due to your unsponsored nature, or the fact that you simply have nothing to lose, you do the "return mug". This, in my opinion, was a bad choice of targets by your victim.

However, the "interpretation" of your return mug was that of an attack. He hit you, you hit back too hard. Now, if I'm not mistaken, he's going to hit you back, only it'll probably run you for more than money. I don't like the idea that you can attack someone, provoke an attack, and then kill them for the provoked response, but that's not my place. You are unsponsored, and therefore have not afforded yourself any protection.

You raise a very valid point there, Pharol.

I wonder, should this person have any issues were he to seek shelter in a City? Obviously he has angered someone with his actions already and they have indicated they will seek him out and punish him. But if this man gains employment in this Thing of Ours, I wonder would the offended persuer still be entitled to make complaint with his new employer, or should the matter then be discarded?

I'm asking for opinions only on that matter, obviously we are unaware who the affected party is, and i'm actually pleased that the unsponsored lad has chosen to keep the identity secret as it allows the question to be pondered without bias to some degree.

Very interesting subject matter, though. Coincidently i've been discussing a very similar scenario with someone today.

Yes Pharol.  I am unsponsored.  I was trying to wisely use my 48 hour grace period to find a suitable home where my ambition might match a potential sponsor however as Animal also pointed out, has exercising this freedom now created a problem.

That is not my concern though, death comes to us all in the end, so whether it is today, tomorrow or 2 years it doesn't bother me.

I think a lot would depend who he joined.

If he were to join say for example Hound or JesseJames and the person who was silly enough to get caught picking pockets was space_Pole. Then I imagine any retribution may disappear quite quickly.

If however it is the other way around and its Hound or JJ whose pocket has been felt and he has joined Space_Pole. Then I imagine you would do what the big Dawgs would tell you.

You should find someone you trust, send 'em the cash, and have them give it to a relative of yours.  Give a 10% holding fee.  Do not give the cash back.

Ultimately, there are more concepts than I can possibly list that are totally subjective. Is hypocrisy acceptable? Depends on the person perpetuating it. If a gangster is acting hypocritically, something may be done about it; for a made guy? It's much more likely nothing will come of it.

In this particular case, it isn't really the hypocrisy that's in question. If you pickpocketed a made man and he wasn't happy, only for him to go along and do the same to another made man, then yeah, that's hypocrisy. In this situation though, you can't apply the standard of hypocrisy as ultimately you and a made guy are accountable to totally different sets of rules. You might call it shit flowing downhill, I call it a central tenet of the mob hierarchy.

What this matter's really about though, is power. As we can see, you are still alive and kicking so it seems our Dutch friend didn't have the importance, power, or big bollocks to see through his threat.

Interestingly, one other point I'd like to quickly address:

" In Chicago, it's one man one vote - JJ is that man and he has the vote, it's the same in other cities (except for two) but the whole crux of this life is respect. Godfather's look down on Don's and all the way down"

Of course it goes without question that JJ calls the shots in Chicago, Stallion for NY and so and so on and that each superior rank looks down on the preceding ones; but your statement that 'the whole crux of this life is respect' is equally true. Whilst lower ranks respect higher ranks, the best City Bosses will also respect those to have rose to prominence in their cities, not just leaders and slanties, but other high rankers too.

Essentially, it's not just a case of higher rankers arbitrarily shitting all over lower ranks; it's a case of this being one of the few things in our lifestyle that his a definitive line drawn in the side; and that line falls at the rank of Made Man.

I would like to offer a unique way of looking at this scenario; If I had been lifting an unsponsored wallet for any reason, and that unsponsored had the spirit to pick my own pocket in retaliation.. I can only say I would be very impressed with the boldness and do my best to not only get to know this person but also offer them a sponsorship. Most people allow the shit to fall, it takes a strong individual to step out of the way or as this case shows... fling the shit right back!!

RobertHeiserman: I sent a follow up message and was waiting on a response, I see now you are a sponsored member of our community, I wish you the best and am glad to see you have a family you feel fits you! Feel free to mail me if you need anything anyhow, I am always open to making new friends in this thing of ours!

I remember seeing something like this posted by the Gods when looking through the obituary section of the newspapper ...

"Blue Under 48 - Unsponsored - Innocent
Red Under 48 - Unsponsored - Has Trained or Mugged or Wacked"

Maybe its just me but it might just be a ploy to make somebody ... less innocent ...

Murdoc makes a valid point, when we see an unsponsored running the streets generally there is an assumption that unsponsored has a bloodline that left journals for this new unsponsored to follow. There are the few who come here for the first time and with no bloodline at all, how would they know by lifting that wallet will cause them to be fair game in our world...

Maybe the GF's or even the Gods need to make a new law, no mugging anyone under a gangster rank, unless that person commits the crime first!!

Maybe the GF's or even the Gods need to make a new law, no mugging anyone under a gangster rank, unless that person commits the crime first!!

Fairly sure thats in place already. No-one under Gangster is able to have their pocket picked.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure a little while ago the gods gave us all a little reminder as we were pondering the thought of dipping a hand into an innocent pocket. Almost a warning that it could be seen as an attack and to expect the possibility of retaliation? I wonder where those whispers disappeared to, the voice of reason...

I may be going soft in my old age, but I openly display that I am not open to any random pocket picking activities. If anyone fancies their chances of checking my pockets for loose change, I would be pretty annoyed and I would make every effort to track down the individual to punish them to the full extent of my power, in an effort to show them the error of their ways. However, if I feel my way into the pockets of an unsuspecting Gangster or similar, I would fully expect to see them turn around and come back at me for their cash. If I take your lunch money and you're able to get it back from me, well played. These things aren't always just one way. I'm not a playground bully, all of the time at least.

Might makes right.

That has been the unofficial motto of this thing of ours for as long as I can remember. Is it fair? No, but it is what it is.

That being said, I agree with Don Stamina. Respect needs to be a two way street. If someone lifts your wallet, you should be given the opportunity to retreive your money. Unfortunately, we do live in a society that embraces the "do what I say, not as I do" philosophy though, so it's best to use common sense when it comes to attacking anyone here, even if you were provoked first. One can only hope that this speech enlightens the current leadership and allows them to make considerations on this topic in the near future.

Being somewhat new blood to this mafia world, I have seen several instances of similar happenings. I think you played the situation well in standing up for yourself and from the people that I have grown to know here, most would agree. However, there will be the few that hold thier rank as a tool or right to bully or withhold common respect. Some people frankly don't BEGIN with basic respect and you can't change that. I don't think that is something that the Gods can fix since free will is involved and it's the mafia- you would expect to find some "not so nice" people, right? I think from that event you take away knowing that particular person's character and use it to judge your future (or perhaps your offspring). Obviously you won't want to join that person's family. Make the mental note to yourself of how that person is and move on about your life here. Later, they may regret that they can't come to you for something because they showed thier ass a bit.

Why are we seriously having a discussion of this! Seriously? I dislike the whole thing of actualy having something written in your suit or skin to say. Not PP me or PP friendly. In a civil war, I'm pretty sure no one would go, "Oh, hey. It's ok to PP me. Go right ahead." Then, insert a smilie face emotion. No. As, mafia members we should do our mugging and pray we don't get caught. Get caught, well it can either go as a chuckle, "good try" or insanly disrespectful. Which in cases is the way to go. Would you rob a governor or something outisde of the mafia world. Probably not, you'll get caught and sent to jail.

Anyways, my point to the story is to get rid of the suit and tats on our suits or skin. For instance. People steal my pet frog Mr. Albert. And, ussaly he has money on him. So, it's a lose lose. Now, I'm speaking giberish.

Main point: Don't carry cash and don't cry about it like a baby back bitch. The end

Sweeney skips off in the sunset.

Michael, somehow you managed to miss the entire point. Well done!

No-one here is crying about being Pick Pocketed? On the contrary, the person who had their pocket dipped returned the favour, it was the original assailant that then was unhappy. This is likely the case because of the fact the return attempt left him/her badly bruised and they were unfit to travel and too weak to attack anyone else for some time, not the loss of the cash itself.

And oddly enough, people are discussing things because thats generally why they enter the streets, to talk to their peers. Is it not?

To touch somewhat on what Michael said (tho he skipped away). why is it not considered an act of agression to pickpocket? Aren't the families in somewhat of a competition to be the stronger and wealthier? I realize there is value in getting people trained to pickpocket well, but shouldn't that be kept in the families? Why would it be okay to allow someone to take cash from your family and gain the experience at your expense? Was that the original thinking and things just changed due to the whining about it, or what? Being young, I just roll with the flow of what I see happenening around me but still wonder how things got warped to the point that it would be acceptable to allow money and experience to leave our families?

Happenening? Stopped instead of pausing? Dallas pops her glasses on.

Wow, I'm not sure how not having glasses on affected my speech but it certainly did! Please forgive the errors.

I think the option is there to return the favor once you get pickpocketed and just as shooting comes with some risks so does pickpocketing - but like everything else 'this is the mafia and if you go attracting the wrong attention and it can have some bad consequences one way or another depending on who you are dealing with and the power they carry'. This should always be remembered in a society where the gun and the word control the masses and can be applied to most things around here.

Each case is different and I don't personally know of anyone who has died by using the 'mug back' on someone and then was shot for it. Personally I forgot about it and did get stuck for a few extra hours and beat up but you live and learn on my block.