I've not had time to listen to the response to those who've spoken before me so forgive me if I'm parroting someone else's point of view.

The catch 22 situation we have with the practice of bodyguard demotions is that it's a totally self sustaining cycle. If I was a Crewleader or a Godfather, I could certainly make an internal rule that would prohibit the practice of demoting people so they can 'bg up'. However, there is no way I could persuade other Leaders/Godfathers to do the same. In fact, I'd find it rather difficult to do so as their crews would be stronger than mine as they'd all have bged up members whilst mine were paying through the nose.

As such, in this hypothetical situation, that'd never be a rule I put into action. Sure, the moral high ground is great; but ultimately it's never a path we take in favour of profits or power, that is not the nature of our business. To willingly hamstring yourself whilst allowing your rivals to grow in strength and influence isn't only naive, it's irresponsible and a disservice to yourself and your members.

However, we had a very similar situation with the much maligned NPMS. If one leader alone decided not to use them it would be ineffectual and even self destructive; however, a Godfather Council was convened and after a number of sit downs and discussions, a blanket ban was brought in whereby no one benefited or was disadvantaged; a similar thing could be enacted for the process of bg demotions, but it entirely depends on whether the Council regard this process as devious and underhanded, or tactical and smart.

whilst I agree with what you have been saying about the demotion should be a punishment, not a reward, etc, etc, my issue is that a Godfather Council ban on the demotion of Mafioso for Bodyguards would be a fairly hypocritical move.

Why is this?

10 of the 15 non-Las Vegas leaders are IWP

4 of the 5 leaders who sit at the Godfather council are IWP

4 out of 15 RHM are IWP

Now yes, I understand a couple of these might of achieved IWP off their own work, recruiting BG's as they ranked, but I would guess the majority of these were demoted by their previous leader(s) to enable them to take advantage. Therefore, whilst I agree about the demotion of Mafioso to gain BG's should be outlawed, it would simply be hypocritical of the GF Council to pass such law and doing so would surely cause uproar?

I agree with FattyFats. It's the eternal catch-22 of trying to avoid demotion for BGs.

But to be honest, I don't have a problem with it. Just like I didn't have problems with NPMs. If it's something that doesn't really hinder me from doing business, then I don't mind who does it and who doesn't.

Yeah Ashes its the proverbial catch twenty two that we find ourselves caught in, Though as myself ,Sprozz and Africanus have pointed out it is really demeening the rank of mademan i hate the fact that its so simple to rank down and Body Gaurd up but i see the benifits of doing so, Its somthing that i would not feel comfortable in doing myself as being Made was the best thing i have acheived.

Personaly i would like to see it changed that ranks below Mademan cant get body gaurds but while this loophole is being exploited it will never happen, If i was a crew leader would i do it? I would be a fool not to would it sit well with me? NO it wouldnt as i personaly value the rank of mademan.

Demoting a made man so he can get a few extra bodyguards is like cutting off your dick to score with the ladies.

For those that argue that it's more effective than just paying MM price for the labour of a bodyguard, I argue that a Made man could more easily make the money it takes to hire a BG than put all of the footwork, blood, sweat and tears it took him to rank up, into re-ranking.

Plus, it's an honour to attain the rank of made. Tossing your button in the trash for a meatsack bullet catcher is like lighting your mother on fire.

Just for the record I am going all types of OOCtitis right now:

In another post they are talking about stealth and the ability to kill off BG's without being caught.

I feel what solves both issues is the effectivness of a BG at the rank it was purchased. a thug buying a BG should not not have the strentgh/skill set as a MM buying a BG. Hence the reason you pay more!

It may already be like this, I have no idea. I assume that it is not because of the ammount of people willing to be demoted just to buy BG's at thug/gangster.

I for one would not want to be a Don with IWP surrounded by BG's I purchased as a gangster if those BG's have the strength of a gangster. I would much rather spend the money to buy quality Capo BG's so they better suit my rank....

Africanus my friend you bring up both an interesting discussion and a initial plan/idea in which you hope to see enacted to reduce the bodyguards and demotion tactics currently on our shores. I think most mobsters on our shores would agree that the tactics are not correct in terms of proper 'role play' but I have also noticed the other half of it which is survival and protecting your assets with the powers we are given, right or wrong.

Pushes a couple hundred of his bodyguards to the side so he can see the microphone still

Is the view from a man with some bodyguards, rhm to the godfather going to be a little different than a brand new thug who' only protection is the fists god gave him and then gun he will earn when he puts the right in, likely yes because when it comes down to business and the end of the day - we want to live and make money and will do what is needed to ensure it and we know the major differences between 0 protection and hundreds and what it will mean when the time comes for war.

We have all seen people who took massive waves to take down, men who formed armies based off just them and their protection and it took hours to take them down while they took pop shots and ended life after life while the effort to drop their protection to a level to kill them... but in the end they are all dead.

I think what you are projecting as an idea could work and could benefit the world, but it needs the united decision across the nation like you know has to happen - and word on the street shows right now the popular opinion from those with the power to bring these changes to head. Unlike those fake mobsters who were able to be hired strictly for cash which was banned across the nation, the protection keeps people sleeping safe at night and I think human nature makes it tough for people to want to change that and sleep uneasy, at least I know my bodyguards keep the house clean and me safe.. but would I be willing to work with less if the rest of the nation worked with less.. possibly depending on the details but I just don't see it happening yet especially when like FattyFats stated so many still need to catch up to the current levels out there.

I think we're looking at this wrong... or some of us are trying to manipulate opinions to make an issue sound worse than it is.

Those who demote for BGs are NOT taking away value from the rank. You could even say that they value it so much, that they are willing to invest millions and then millions more in upkeep just so they don't lose their work.

To be honest, those that would like to see demotion for BGs prevented, I think the only place they can really discuss this with any hopes of success is down on OOC Avenue.

Like I said earlier, we can justify anything, yes anything with the proper back story to it.

The other day I heard a rumor. My Corrupt Agent told me that he heard down at the station that a highly trained assassin was after my RHW. I knew I could take my chances, but I decided I didn't want to. I asked my RHW to lay low, act like a goomba and I also decided to hire much more protection for her. As days go by and we grow more and more confident that the threat is gone, she will start acting more according to her true rank until we make it official again and announce her as the rank she used to be before this threat.

Also, for those who say that there are people that walk around with hundreds of BGs following them. That's a load of crap. Nobody can tell how many BGs anybody has. As I say this, I can tell you I'm Extremely Well Protected. That could mean that I have hired 5 highly trained BGs that are worth 10 of the chums you can hire when you are a mere thug. Or maybe I do have 51 people employed just to protect me, but that doesn't mean they are all bumping into each other blocking my way following me everywhere even into the shower. Maybe I only walk around with three or four at a time and if I ever become under attack I will send out the call to gather the rest as I need them.

Like I said, ANYTHING can be justified with the proper back story.