Stand there looking around confused

I all my words fall on deaf ears?!?!?

Inferno,, in my opinion, you just gave a politician's reply. A lot of words, but a lot of cliches. As cliches, they were all true, but I don't feel you said anything new or that warranted a response. MAybe there was a question in there and I missed it?

Rathbone: "To keep handing rewards over to those simply because they have a famous name or whose family was once important isn't right in my eyes. It complete ignores those that work the hardest in this life and prove to their families that they are capable of such opportunities. Now, if the son or daughter of a former resident of New York can demonstrate such hard work and loyalty to his family, then yes, you could sell me on the idea that they should be given such an opportunity."

It's not that we want to be handed things we don't deserve, but I think we have to agree that our DNA really does say what we are capable of. Sure, a son of a daughter may wildly deviate from the path of the parent, many take pride in doing so, but if a son promises to follow the steps of the father, I'm sure we can trust that he will.

If you think NY was doing a decent job, then it could have some merit to give their sons and daughters a chance to rebuild and pick up right where they left off. Kind of like if an earthquake had hit the place and we had to start all over again, but the same people and the same idea.

Towards the end you do say something similar to this. I just wanted to say it in my own words.

Firstly,  I would like to say RIP to all who was lost. I will be adding a bit to what Godfather Stamina stated, which of course im in agreeance with.

Its funny how your opinion on some things change.  Ill explain.  As far back as i can remember as far back as a decade really, the only reason i involved myself in the life of crime was because of the violent and bloodshed that insued from time to time (wars).  Now that I have taken on the challenge of running my own city, my opinion of war has change quite drastically.  Nowdays its honestly the last thing i want to do, because I hate that there is so much risk to my family members.  When I decide to go to war against someone, i bare the responsibility of all losses on both sides, because it was my decision.  Its quite difficult to stomach all the losses, when you know how much effort was put into that life that was just taken.  Once a life is taken, theres nothing you can do.  Its difficult to explain, but to the many bloodlines who have bared the responsibility of losses know exacly what i mean.  Its hard to love war when you are responsibile for so many lives.


On that note the St Louis takedown from a Chicago perspective.  

I would like to say that Hounds reign as Godfather should be celebrated.  Though his time was short lived, he was loved by many including myself.  Since the death of Premeir I havent taken anything so hard.  I really considered Hound a great friend and will continue to befriend his bloodline. 

Stamina has already addressed Hounds reasoning behind the war of NYC and i will continue it!  So the war was planned by Hound and St Louis and had a semi-successful first wave.  Keep in mind that St Louis was populated with 135 plus family members.  The wave included 9 hits, including Snip godfather of NYC (RIP).  In response to being taken down by St Louis, NYC decided to shoot at Chicago on assumptions.  This is not anything that could have been contolled by St Louis, though it could have been avoided through better planning.  I was most troubled with the post-first wave actions of St Louis.  In short, Chicago had to take the lead on the clean up efforts as we were clearly in risk to lose more family members.  Meanwhile, while this clean up effort was taking place, in a war that Chicago was not involved in, CL's from St Louis were shooting IA members to make room for new members.  You heard that all correctly,  St Louis CL's were seen shooting people completely irrelvant to the war efforts.  It was bad enough that we lost family members in a war we shouldnt have been involved with, and its another thing post first wave when we were forced to clean up the mess, in a war we had nothing to do with. 

Despite the screw ups, it was still a very tough decision to make.  At the end of the day you have to put your city in front of your personal friendships.  I've done this twice now, and believe me when i say this hasnt gotten any easier.  

On that note, The Godfather Council rules will temporarily be broken due to the unique circumstances.  Stamina and I will further address the current open cities in the coming days.  Thank you all for your time.  Again, RIP to all who have fallen.

Haters be hating!

New York weren't the only people to attack the wrong cities. St Louis attacked Vegas after Chicago and New Orleans begun their war. Of course though there is nothing Vegas can really do about this; Like St Louis had no control over New Yorks action, Chi and NO had little control over St Louis's.

The only difference here I suspect is that Chicago and New Orleans continued their fighting efforts and removed those that attacked Vegas, as opposed to deciding to remove dead wood in their own HQs.

I welcome the news on other cities possibly opening, its become like a ghost town lately and is not good for business at all.

Waits for JesseJames to finish

See, this is what I am talking about. Everyone is freaking out over something that no one person knows everything about. I think just waiting for the Godfather Council to make an official statement and then freak out. Everyone is yelling and shouting at ghosts in the dark.

I appreciate the Godfathers addressing this issue. The past few days have been interesting to say the least. Hearing clarification from those who rule the roost gives light to those of us who where not sure as to what was really occuring.

I am a descendant of the old New York... one of the last standing during the massacre of that fine city. My grandpappy ImNotTeQ stood beside LadyFighter and waited for that fatal bullet.

Let me say this... New York was NOT completely innocent, just like EveValon has said...

1) We shot people from Chicago when it wasn't them who attacked.

2) Our suspicions of Chicago were so implanted into our minds that we ASSUMED it was them in the first place.

3) If we were so innocent, why would we have held such a garingly one sided view of who it was that attacked us? Even though only 3 of us got a shot off at Chicago, how many other New Yorkers jumped to the conclusion that it was Chicago who had attacked us, huh?

Descendants of the old New York... I ask that you let this drop. Like my grandpappy said, WE MADE MISTAKES. That includes myself and the former RHM to former acting Godfather Stallion. The old New York is dead in the water and I suggest you leave it there for the time being. Maybe one day the descendants of that beauitiful city will be united once again, but for now we have to prove ourselves worthy of the opportunity to do that... just like our ancestors did. They weren't handed the opportunity on a silver plateur and I think they'd be ashamed at the people who are asking for it this time.

I find it odd that the reasoning for this war was stated so quickly after the incident, when most people already knew the reasons, yet nothing has been said about Philadelphia other than maybe behind closed doors. I am well aware that explanations are not compulsory, and I apologise if I have missed something spoken previously.

Honestly. Who really cared about Philly?

Even if nobody did, that's not really the point is it?

Cherry Tango, using your logic, New York really didn't make a mistake, your ancestor made a mistake, and in doing so royally fucked over the rest of NYC. Nicely done.

As another son of a fallen NYer, I can say that yes, NY was fucked after the first wave..which left only a few worthy guns remaining. Could our organization have outlasted SL? No doubt in my mind - could those users continue to fight throughout the night to keep NY alive (excuse the OOC), probably not, as we all have lives. The best option for us as a city would have been:

1) Determine who the actual attacker is. 

2) Once we determined it was SL, approach other allied cities for assistance.

3) Destroy SL and rebuild with the members that were left standing in NY.

You know from a man who worked closely with all of this on the Saint Louis side alongside with Godfather Hound daily, I would say trust was placed into the wrong hands (Superbee) and in the end that was the downfall. Godfather Hound was friends with both Don Snip and Godfather JesseJames and he spoke it daily (which I read every mail) to both of them and I know for a fact he meant it, so to both men especially Snip I would say think otherwise of his playing you to your face, but I cannot change your views of bring back your city.

It is funny how things get twisted, feelings hurt and words thrown around in the streets but at the end of the day this is the life we choose and you play your cards and what you get dealt you get dealt. I was dealt a great hand and I will never forget it, or those who played the cards to get me there.

I have heard rumors of Saint Louis receiving word of the war before hand (N.O and Chi gearing up.. yes there is snitches everywhere and even some in bold), even minutes before hand from multiple sources and I would say all of this was true..but in this business all we have is our word and Godfather Hounds order to me was we would keep our word and our promise to Godfather JesseJames until the end and never turn on him.. to which we kept our end up, our downfall obviously.

We learn and grow in this business and sometimes when you shake hands with the devil (like we did) by taking out our own Godfather (SuperX) with Chicago doing all the gun work for ya - the devil comes back to bite ya in the ass and once on the dark side you can never return...We knew it was only a matter of time.

In a world filled with crazy math, bodyguard populations to the max and no end in sight I have nightmares daily and I was one with all the cash and bodyguards there for a while now.. but I always remember it has been worst and there is always a brighter day and every reign has its end and when your the victim of course it is hard..

Saint Louis was a great city to work in and we prospered with diversity and although every tree has a few bad apples, I choose to remember the good days and close my eyes for the future.

Godfather Stamina, if you'll forgive me repeating a popular misconception for the sake of discussion - the general consensus is/was that Chicago is the 'powerhouse' of our times. When you listen to the mutterings and moanings in the Coffeeshop, the finger usually seems to be pointing towards the Windy City. However, as is often the case, the facts were somewhat at odds with this. As JesseJames has pointed out St.Louis had many more members than Chicago prior to this war and it's worth pointing out that they boasted 9 IWP members too.

Despite this formidable line up, they were unable to carry out an efficient first wave in a war. Considering the Chicago members who died in the NY conflict did die at the hands of NY members, is it harsh to lay the blame at St. Louis' door? Of course it is, it's arbitrary and it's harsh; but ultimately that's not important. To me, what is important is that 2 of my dear friends lost their lives; and, to me, the fact that two high ranking Chicagoans died as a result of St. Louis' sheer ineptitude was reason enough for the city being taken out.

This may seem at odds with my Godfather's statement that 'this is not anything that could have been contolled by St Louis', but I do agree with that, it's common sense. You can't blame St. Louis for New York's reaction; but you certainly can blame them for allowing New York to even have a reaction. If you don't have faith in your ability to put an effective first wave into place you can do one of two things; you get help, or you call off the war. St. Louis didn't do either of these things, so either they were totally ignorant to the nature and strategy of war, or they were not ignorant and ploughed on regardless, putting other cities at risk.

The more eagle eyed among you will cry hypocrite at me as the first wave of the STL takedown left quite a few important folks alive, but I should like to point out a few subtle differences between the two wars:

- The NY takedown saw 9 dead members in the firstwave. The STL takedown saw over 30
- Comparatively speaking, there was a gulf between the cities. Note STL's 130+ members with 9 IWP folks, versus the Godfatherless New York
- The post first wave efforts from STL, versus from Chicago and New Orleans.

To further reiterate my Godfather's statement, STL's decorum and 'strategy' after the first wave was, frankly, insulting. Whilst Madara remained alive and there was a threat to New Orleans and Chicago in the STL war, the two cities worked tirelessly to remove bodyguards, prowackers and other high rankers to minimise losses and ensure success. Conversely STL, as documented, fannyed about shooting IA's whilst Chicago in particular worked to neutralise a large part of the NY threat out of self preservation.

Ultimately though, the biggest difference between the two takedowns is this; despite what Madara claimed in his speech, STL did not have the clout, the nous or the power necessary to take out another city.

I still have a home, a boss and a heartbeat - so obviously New Orleans and Chicago have the qualities that St. Louis unfortunately lacked.

Cherry Tango, using your logic, New York really didn't make a mistake, your ancestor made a mistake, and in doing so royally fucked over the rest of NYC. Nicely done.

Reply by: Mr_Cheese at Jan 11, '12 17:47

Do some research before make retarded comments like this please? My grandpappy was the THIRD person to shoot at Chicago out of the ones left. He shot AFTER the RHM of acting Godfather Stallion had taken her shot. So yes... New york DID really make the mistake.Are you SERIOUSLY trying to tell me that he shouldn't have followed orders? Because that's just... trolololol.

Are you another... *yawn* hater by any chance?

Muppet.

I take offence to Mr_Cheese being called a muppet as I'm sure 49 other people will too!

Thank you to the Godfathers for coming out and clearing this up. As CherryTango has said NEW YORK made mistakes. It happens am I bitter that my father died because of those mistakes am I fuck, in this line of business 99% of the time you leave it dead. Sometimes sooner rather than later and for those from both New York and Saint Louis that are whining that fathers, mothers, brothers and sisters died in the wars. Grow a pair and move on with your lives.