This same conversation has been held I'd wager on a dozen different occasions; different names, different times. If you want things to get 'better' you don't look back, you look forward.

OK, but look forward to what?  To who?  Aren't we all doomed to repeat ourselves?

Let's just go ahead and bring back DiscoDuck too.

grrrQUACK!!!!

Oh Johnny, can I call you Johnny? I'm starting to get that same feeling I get in my stomach when I can overhear my nana's soap opera's from the tellie.

Honestly though. Our deceased friends Roman and Prem left a big footprint and had an impact on nearly everyone else's lives. You don't need to bring them back to get the same results or to usher in progress. You need only look to yourselves. Giants of old are gone and are just dust and bones in the ground - but look at the tools and the techniques they used to succeed and let this be a memento as you embark on your own legacy.

Nicola, since you have nobody specific in mind, could it be we are just repeating what other people say that they know of a guy who knows a guy who, etc... Like I said, I have never heard of an example of a really good bloodline being held back repeatedly under different regimes and cities.

Sure one person may hold another back, but then they commit suicide and their son does well elsewhere. That could happen, but the fact that somebody can't make it ANYWHERE? No, I don't buy that.

I wasn't aware I was repeating anyone actually.

Fair enough. But if you are not repeating rumors, then what makes you think that there is even somebody being held back? You said you didn't know anybody and that you're not repeating anybody. Then what made you contribute to that side of the debate.

I hope I am not being too picky or making you uncomfortable. Please believe me, I am just trying to debate here and I am in no way trying to argue or fight.

I like to think hypothetically. Hypothetically, I'm sure there are people who are finding it significantly harder to progress. Maybe they're shy, maybe they just don't know anyone, maybe they're quiet.

You look forward, forward to another Grin, another SpaceMountain, another visonary who is willing to rock the boat and work towards taking down the big boys. I can only hope that there are still visonaries out there who wish to really rock the boat.

Abel I can think of bloodlines who are repeatedly held back, I think maybe they are waiting for one day to excel when nurtured properly instead of being shit on from great heights.

I can also think of blood lines who repeatedly get a chance in a bold suit and continually fuck it up.

Actually I can think of a saying that refers quite well to it. "Same shit, different day".

Whether you hated them or loved them, tha brothas did it "right." They had tha power to do as they pleased, and they ruled as they saw fit. You can sit there all day and say "oh they did this, they were unfair" but this is the life of crime my brothas and sistas. The only rules is WHO rules, simple...as...that. They were in control for one of the big eras in this thing of ours and, personally, I'm lookin' forward for this one. It's time we all, and I include myself in this, to stop lookin' at the past, focus on the present, and start lookin' towards the future. Dwellin' in the past ain't gonna do any of us a bit o' good.

I am, I will admit, surprised that the unsettled times we have lived in since Roman and Prem, and then Chade in Vegas, fell have been allowed to continue for so long.

Have we all forgotten about deimne? Now that man had a legacy. He ruled the game for years, lets not forget that.

But we also have to remember, that new people have to take over, for new ideas to be brought into play, and improved upon.

So to relate this back into the topic, no, we shouldnt bring Roman back, nor premier. The new leaders should be given their chance to shine, but they should remember, that nothing lasts forever.

I am sorry to say that no one has ruled better than Marietta in the last 4 or 5 years. Yes there have been some powerful people here in that time but she was the best.

As to bringing people back, no i dont think we need to bring the same people back over and over. This is the time for reconstruction and new leadership

You know what? It might well be *all* about who you know. That's a fair comment, people in my line have acquired a scintilla of power because they're buddies with the big boys. That's not a bloodline friendship though, that's because I took the time to regularly speak to those above me. My crewleader at the time, RH at the time, LH at the time, HSL at the time, and all of the aforementioned positions from the GF family. You speak to these people, you do become friends with them and you do get noticed. There is absolutely no reason why anyone cannot speak to those in power. I'm sure they are busy, but just taking a second to chat to them in some free time might go down a treat. So, as much as it's about who you know, it's about making the effort to ensure that you know the right people too.

Hop to it.

I dont think taking a step backward is the way to fix a problem.  Looking at the problem and seeing if is a solution is a start, and atempting to shape a small mound of it even if in Vegas is sometimes the best way to change it.  The truth is looking round society there has been long term problems with it but there is a mix of how people react to it some go for 1%'s, some rogue often innefectively and others try and rank quietly.  For any form of resistance or change it takes time and luck as people dont arrive on these shores, join a crew and next day shoot down a godfather.

In regard to nothing happening NY, PHilly, SL and the deaths in LV mean nothing then i am quite sad for the perspective on the world.  The drop in total bg numbers, income and talent that could of had a bright future is always a tragedy to see.  Especially when the talent never had a clue what happend or why, as a proportion of the population understands is the risk of the business though.

In regard to gaining positions in a family, some jobs are gonna be linked to people of a certain bloodline coz the trust issues between their bloodlines.  It can be incredibly frustrating to be denied your chance but what i have noticed since my line last walked these streets is often the lack of patience.  We see ranks popping up regularly which once seemed unasailable, we see families rise and fall and the empty cities seem the biggest impediment to opportunity for some.  Within my first days in Las Vegas i have tried my hardest to volunteer for certain tasks to try and make a difference in my city, i hope with time this helps me to progress further but i dont expect to receive it all quick or be denied either.   I think with so much talent squashed into the limited numbers of family, and the bloodlines who have served a family so long is even harder to walk in and receive the respect some people think they deserve.

I look out and see often suicides, requested kills as words whispered at funerals and think there has to be something to give these people the hope is worth continuing, instead of what some i have talked to in coffeeshops who feel this infinite doom or an easy way out to hope their children have the skills they wont work to gain.

Nicola, I'm not sure I follow your comment. What do you mean "allowed". By using that word, you mean there is a higher power able to stop the wars. However, it was the strongest city in here that started two of the last three attacks. Unless you disagree with their motives, I don't think there is nothing to be allowed or disallowed. sometimes, a leader's hand is forced and wars need to be initiated.

Yes, some people attack out of paranoia or perhaps stupidity, but some attacks are initiated to ensure the safety of most of us.

And Dimitri, Deimne did have a legacy, but let's not get carried away... "years". He may have made it for a year if he made it that long.

Abel, he was around for around two years, longer than most can say, and longer than anyone since has been able to keep power. The cities prospered under his rule, other than las vegas, who was run by a complete and total idiot.

A first brief point before I attempt to make longer, maybe more detailed, probably as uninteresting one. We will always end up repeating ourselves. nothing really ever gets better. Just slightly different. Reading family journals, I have noticed the many times where excitment rules the waves as the powerhouse(s) of that time are taken down, only for 2/3 months later, those same people to be moaning about the new powerhouses(s). Then another takedown occurs and everyone is excited for the future again. Then again, 3/4 months later, we see a repatation. The fact is, nothing will ever change.

Under every regeime, there will always be those who feel that they have no future. Those that feel they are looked over. Those who long, and bitch for, change. Then when that change happens, they might get their chance. But again, there will be some who feel neglected. Unwanted. And it repeats. We are in a circle and it will always go round, and they only way of breaking that circle is death. The only thing that is certain.

So be careful what you all wish for. If the next regeime comes in and all holds hands and does nothing, people will be moaning about being bored and the place stagnating.

To sum up, those at the top will alway be criticsed by many for the way they run the world. It has always been that way, and will always be, that way.

I think you mayBe onto somthing there FattyFats a peacefull regeime that only holds our hands a gifts us flowers and maybe scolds us if we missbehave, But alas i just cant see that happening so Dimitri you say the citys arnt prospering are you forgetting there where 3 very quick wars? That costs the lives of 100s of mobsters Philly,New York and St L gone. Chicago is prospeous New Orleans is prosperous New york looks great haveing just rebuilt and Animal has stabalised Vegas i think considering all the Gangland violence its starting to look pretty bloody rosey Oppurtunitys are there for the taking for those that want to work hard and inpress the powers that be it looks very very good indeed.