How about opening the books a different way.  We could make getting Made mean something - something big.

There could be a set day, every week/2 weeks/month.  On that day, and only then, will people finally get their button.  There could be a proposer - someone Made or above and s seconder (Capo and above) who go to a Godfather to get the blessing.  If a Godfather isn't available, then the city Don has to confirm it.  A record is kept somewhere very safe with the Godfather councul.  That Made man rogues - then his proposers/seconders die and the city is fined.

Let's turn this thing round.

Let's make getting made mean something.

And, as an aside, this will make *pre-getting made* rogueing more common - which will make life a lot more interesting.

Your thoughts?

How about letting a Crewleader decide how to run his or her crew? Odd concept I know, but thought i'd put it out there.

Getting Made has always been a big deal to many people on these streets. It might sound crazy, but someone already proposes when the person gets their button, their leader. He/She and they alone are responsible for their member, passing the buck to two other people to take the blame if that person goes rogue is a cowards way out.

If someone in my family is a Made Man, then I trust them. I take full responsibility for their actions.

Can I just clarify you want to see more pre made rogueing to make our lives more interesting!!!!

Are you quite mad??

I presume you also know that the gods have made it possible for someone with sufficient experience to obtain the rank of made man without the permission of his CL?

That sounds like way out there......So basicly you want to pick to saps to take the fall for sombodys idiotic actions if some clown is going to rogue they dont care how many they takedown with them, No matter how many you have there watching them once they decide that cause of action its done.

AS Animal said its the crewleaders job to decide when somebody in there crew gets there button.

Pre rogueing am i hearing yopu correctly? i think everyday a wiseguy or earner finds themselves taking a dirt nap for rogueing as that tital is handed to the fools that get there jollys off shooting bgs ect i cant beleive you have sugessted this i really cant.

Not to repeat what these clever people have already said before me, something else I found in quite poor taste is how you parodied an event related to this. I think you could have at least made your idea seem unique and unrelated.

Every crew considers the Made Man promotion a big deal. Every crew does it their own way and we don't need to make a public spectacle of it.

This idea would have been much better suited to suggest within your own HQ or to your own Crew Leader. Not here for everybody to comment on.

I commend your initiative in trying to bring some life into the streets, but maybe you need to think a bit before you bring a topic to the streets. I'm sure there are plenty of people who can help you decide if a topic is worth bringing to the streets.

I believe that the late Roman tried something like this before... He would give the crews 'points' or something along those lines, and they could only promote so many people with these 'points'.

This was an innovative idea, but allot of wise-guys hated it, and quite a few of the people who had their button did too. If someone can progress at a good speed, say they put in enough work, spend enough time here in america, and get to know their boss and his Hand men well enough for the boss to want to promote him or her, then he deserves to be promoted when the boss thinks hes ready, not once a month or so.

But this is my opinion, and if a crew thinks it is a good idea, why dont they just do it privately?

I also personally dont believe any major changes will benefit our up-aboves at the minute, let them rebuild more, become more stable. They can only instill major change if they have the power to enforce it.

The initial idea of sponsorship that I can see from my family journals was put forward by the group known only as CP. During their reign which was approx 4 years ago they suffered greatly to rogues. In an attempt to stamp out this phenomenon they introduced a couple of radical ideas.


1) The sponsorship of all made man promotions. To get your button you had to supply 3 references if your turned out to be a bad egg then your sponsors were shot.

2) The mass removal of guns when a rogue appeared. Anyone not involved in the chasing of a rogue would have their gun removed so as to not be possible to pro wack the person.

I must admit everyday i scroll through the obits and see how many rule breakers, bg whackers and random whackers appear.  To some this may be a small amount but on what feels to be a shrinking community littered with post war members at stages who are just bored or angry about their uncle, brother or fathers death the last thing we need to hear is someone promoting rogue crews. 

As for the excitement of rogue crews, it is not excitement for someone who loses everything, is not excitement for the family who's name it tarnishes and is not excitement for people who invested hard work in members after seeing what they believed was a hint of potential.  How many rogues have you seen that are even effective? many get pro and sit there or shoot and die.  To a large degree i can understand methods 1) and 2) mentioned by romeo to protect members however frustrating it is.

Dimitri, back in those days of Roman that you mention, wasn't it that each city was in a way limited as to the amount of Made Men you could promote? (OOC, a limit imposed by the code) In that sense he just tried to figure out a way to decide who would get them first.

If I'm mistaken, then feel free to ignore me.

I believe your mistaken there Abel. There were no God imposed restrictions during that period.

Our CRew being Made is a big deal, underlink work they ass off and tribrute to be look at! We welcome mademan with high price cigars and booze, sometimes hookahs.once u come mademan, you feel like somebody important in the family!

You are touching on a very interesting subject JohnDavidson and I have no doubts that you are bringing it up with good intentions, yet the way you wanna fix it is bad, as mentioned by other people here. It's been tried before and that system failed miserably, being hated by the majority of the people. If anyone should try to change the practices and is in fact capable of doing so, that's the Crew Leaders. Let them decide who is worthy and who is not. In the end of the day if it's not happening in your crew, what right do you have on even voicing an opinion on it? What would be next, trying to set a standard on how high the taxes should be?

My main worry would also flick on loyalty and work ethic if people knew they couldnt be promoted till X,Y or Z date..  Making there work load more a sprint then a marathon in cases, plus the affect on inbuilt defences for loyalty set by the the city architects.  Next would be the typical idiot who comes out on the street anouncing dates if known and standards to be made in some cases as we have seen in the past which may persuade some on which city to join if it was not the same date for all cities. 

Ultimately, like I said before, this is not a bad idea in itself. It's just for each Crew Leader to decide how they handle their promotions. Nobody has any right to even suggest how people from another city should be handling promotions, but if you approached your Crew Leader respectfully with this, you may get a chance to be heard.

Looks on and smiles at Animal

Speaking as someone who has put in work and risked his neck for his city and Boss to how ever large or small a degree I have. It would frustrate me if my fate was left in the hands of someone other than my boss. I work, risk jail, pay taxes to one man/woman. Why should I have to prove to anyone else I am worthy of being brought into the family. After all that is what it is called a FAMILY, not a COMMUNE...

Lorna steps out of the shadows and into the street light to speak.

John, it has been my plan since I came into this world that if I ever got the chance to run my own family I would do something similar to what you said but different.  I would not have a once a month thing but I would promote my members on three sole basis.

1. You have the required rank
2. You have two Made members or above speak for you to me
3. I trust and know you

That would mean it wouldn't matter if you have enough experience, you would still have to have to have my trust before anyone is ranks and the approval of two different made or above members.  I would state in the rank requirements that if you don't like my way of doing things then suicide and find another family.  That way they know what they are getting into and WONT rogue later on.  I'm not for rouging but I am for realism and my idea is to make it as real as possible. 

On a side note, I would also set up the crew structure to work as such:

Boss
/\
RHM/LHM
|
Consigliere (A council man for the upper structure)
/\
Hitman(HSL)/Boss(In charge of keeping members in line and reporting good or bad things about members)
|
Family Bartender
|
Soldiers (members)

This of course is my idea alone and does not reflect my families business on how things are done.  Also I don't feel I'm breaking omerta by saying this since I don't have my own family.  So in nut shell, yes John, I agree with your idea somewhat.  But not fully.