Sam had enjoyed a fulfilling morning. After breakfast in bed was brought to him by a particularly tyrannical lover he'd found in a jazz joint late the night before, he read the morning paper, scanning the obituaries for news of his own demise. Realising he was still very much alive, he clambered out of bed and embraced the statuesque goddess that had brought him late night satisfaction and early morning fuel. What a woman! Sam dressed in his finest grey suit, tweaked the oversized collars on his ostentatious shirt and shot himself a playful wink in the mirror before heading out the door into another day of excellence.

A pleasant stroll through the park accompanied by the small birds and furry creatures that would routinely gather and follow him as he went, was followed by a coffee in one of his favourite haunts. The warm leather booth and large cups of flowing coffee set his mind thinking. As he casually scanned the morning paper he became aware of all the advertisements. One after another claiming to do this and that. Absolute guarantee. 100% proven. Never fails. Sam was taken aback at the quite remarkable collection of boasts and wondered if these companies could deliver half the things they claimed. He finished his brew, set down his paper and headed off toward a local square he usually liked to frequent.

As he went he thought about all the mobsters he had seen make claims about this and that. He thought about those that did and those that didn't deliver on their promises and decided to seek some feedback on the question.

I have always advocated that a person should do what they say they are going to do or at the very least, make their level best effort to do so. Whether that be some altruistic goal for the betterment of our entire collective lives or the shaking fist of bitter promise that vengeance will be meted out, doesn't matter. The point is, I always felt that if you make a statement of intent then you should do all you can to follow through on it. But it seems my views are old fashioned.

We see so many people around saying they will do this and that and then doing nothing of the sort, what does it matter? We have seen people promise to always be loyal before switching sides mid fight with seemingly no consequences. We have seen a city head killed for being mute by a mute who I dare say won't say too much in future. We have seen people talk about rules and then break those exact rules with no consequences because of the power they held. We have watched as misinformation about loyalty was spouted by a city leader to divert attention from a greater plan to take the city down from the inside. There are all kinds of examples of dual standards throughout our history. Really, the list is almost endless. Indeed, it must be tempting to bend the rules.

So why walk the walk? What is the real benefit of being a stand-up individual? Why bother being reliable and brave if you end up dead anyway?

I am curious to know where you stand and why.

Sam took a chair next to a cafe and ordered a drink.

Is it your place really to question what other people do as long as they don't do it to you directly? I'm surprised to hear you use pretty real and recent examples in your list of cardinal sins to coherence and moral high ground.

Many people often feel the need to remind us that this is the mafia. It sounds like a cliché, but then again, speeches like these make me feel that some people need to be reminded of that.

I'm not sure bravery really enters the mix. I think we need astute people more than brave people. Reliable? Well, if you plan to get ahead and occupy an rather important role in your crew, you should prove to be reliable or you will be always one of the people from the low tier.

Betraying people just for fun or without apparent reasons will get your bloodline labeled pretty quickly but several people have done a few big questionable moves at one point or another and it all gets put in the past because it's the nature of the business we are in.

That's my take on this anyway.

Chris listens to yet another rant by a disgruntled mobster and is tunned by the words that come out of his mouth

Firstly Sam i dont recall any Family being taken down for being mute reciently, Unless your refereing to the recient mob violence that happened in Philly if thats the case i beleive Corbin feared for his familys safey and acted accordinly.

Though i dont see alot of crewleaders coming out here everyday talking why? Because they dont have to we are not here to come to these streets everyday and talk we have our very own coffee shop for that.

Secondly if you are going to disrespect crewleaders you are not showing your crewleader any respect at all and saying that you are thinking of breaking the rules hence rogueing is a quick way to become fish food thats my take on this.

Now, now Chris, I think you've got the wrong end of the stick if you've concluded that he was threatening roguedom or rule breaking...

He was simply questioning the motive behind being a 'Stand-up guy' i.e. an man who is loyal until death, a man with the presence and charisma on the street to inspire others, when it seems to him, that over history, people that fall short often rise to the top...

Who says we're all loyal? There are a large number of people looking for some semblance of power in this thing of ours. Pretending to care about your leader is sometimes the only way to assume said power because you can't do it on your own in this thing of ours. Everyone needs allies. This is an interdependent community, the leaders need money and hitters, but those members would be dead if they weren't able to hide behind one of the big guys in bold.

(OOC: if you're asking why do people keep coming back to the game, I'll let you figure that out for yourself. As for the topic, this applies to RL too, Taking everyone's promises as though they can't be broken is foolish, and of course there are double standards. If you know someone's bloodline hits great heights and is loyal to yours you'll do whatever it takes to keep them alive. Assuming your leader loves you all the same is idiocy, especially because the people who think CL's should treat everyone the same are the ones who couldn't be bothered to get to know their CL.)

Viva la Muppet Revolution! The Streets will run white with puppet stuffing!

I hate to shock you Sam but everyone's gotta die sometime. It is a fact of life, no one can escape the Reaper for ever!!!

I would like to think there is a real tangible benefit in being a stand up guy. I happen to think that even though Betsy_Poke wears a dress every now and then. That I would class Betsy as a stand up guy and that is just from my dealings with Betsy both being a member in the same crew, a RHM to Betsy and being a crew leader in the same city.

If you look around closely I think out in this world there are plenty of Stand up guys. Granted there are some who will jump ship at a moments notice without looking back but it is then up to whoever takes them in to decide whether they are deserving of their rank or whether they should be held back from further promotions.

Oh Sam, 

I must acknowledge your magnificent dedication to the advocacy of upholding the populace accountable to their declarations, that’s quite the impressive task you’ve undertaken, I wonder how you came to bear such a considerable duty, perhaps it was a chosen vocation or maybe a divine calling. This is merely conjecture but I’m thinking this sanctimonious and narcissistic attitude was formed over many years of solitude while one was masturbating themselves into obscurity, only to one day find themselves sticky, unsatisfied and bitter at the world for moving on, again conjecture. 

My point? The route of moral superiority is as lonely as the life I described above, once you become accepting that individuals are fallible and unpredictable life becomes a lot more pleasant. 

Oh and if I find you’re speaking disrespectfully about my leader in public in the future I’ll kill you in a heartbeat, that’s a promise I’ll deliver on, in this life or the next.

Civ walks over to Sam slowing leaning againts his cane... his old bones just arent the same these days... it hurt a little but he managed to get to where he wanted.

Sam? Is it?

Well, i have to say that is a well though out speach. But... the thing is, yes we all die. Otherwise there would be no such thing as life... we are born and eventualy we die. And i have great respect for a man that chooses how he wants to die. Does he want to be a follower and die as a coward, or take matters in his own hands. CorbinRussell felt philly was unsafe with Sinfest leading it, so he decided to do something about it. You accuse him of beeing a mute? and yet i have heard quite a few speaches from him and also remarks. Maybe not as many as it would take for you not to call him a mute. I would call someone a mute if that person never talks in the streets. I dont think Corbin fits into that categorie. He even mentioned a few days ago that he wanted to show more street presence. I would say he was showing loyalty to Sinfest and not out-shine him in the streets, well... up until the take down of course. It is probably why he talked about Sinfest's absence of streets presence. I can see now what he ment by it. We will probably see more of CorbinRussell from this point on i would say. I would never call him a mute. Anyways, from all i know... i may be a mute to you myself... who knows.

While out for a walk Jordan stops to listen to a few people talk on the street as she normally does every day.

Sam, as you said duel standards have happened often through out the history of this thing of ours. It’s no surprise to me when a man says one thing and does another. I’m generally a trusting person. I’d like to believe when a man gives his word he means it at the time. I also know how we work and how often things change. Shit happens in our business that makes it virtually impossible to keep our word every single time. We are put in situations often that force us to make hard decisions, such as taking out friends in another city or breaking our word. I’d rather not do either of those things, but when it comes to what’s best for the family and our city my choice is obvious.

Ok there seems to be quite a lot of heated responses here. Some possibly getting the wrong end of the stick a little bit.

Alistair  I wasn't proclaiming anyone to have committed any cardinal sins. Nor was I questioning any individuals. I gave examples in order to present a topic for discussion in the hope it would yield some varied opinions from people and the various experiences they had and the views they held. I am perfectly aware that we are in the mafia and I am also aware that what some people consider underhanded, others consider cunning. My question was simply put to give examples and attempt to gain differing perspectives.

Chris, I have not come here to offend anyone. Crew leader or otherwise. Nor am I disgruntled in any way. I have no real opinion on any recent events or past events anywhere. That's kind of the point. I presented examples of things that have happened and asked for opinions on that based on people's varied experiences and opinions.

WhereWasI I appreciate your point of view. That is certainly a perspective and outlook on the world worth considering. Thank you for contributing. In regard to your point about people returning to this life generation after generation, that was not something I was asking. I feel I have a reasonable grasp on why bloodlines stick around.

Romeo, being one of a long line of mobsters I am well aware that we all die. That was not my question. As for your opinion about being a stand up guy, I appreciate your input and opinion. Thanks for contributing to the discussion. I've seen Betsy in a dress, I must confess to being slightly alarmed at how well it suited him! He's got pretty good legs for a big man.

Oxane. I have at no point claimed to hold a moral high ground. Nor have I claimed that my view on life was correct or better. I was asking for varied opinions from varied experiences and perspectives. As for the rest of what you said, it was the very definition of pointlessly offensive. I have a thick skin and can take my share of abuse but if you are going to make wonderfully articulate attempts at pubescent mud-slinging, try to have a point, it makes it so much more interesting for the listener.

The_Civilian  I agree with you. I too have immense respect for any man who chooses the nature and means of his own death. My comments about lack of street presence was not a judgement, it was an observation. . If you think Corbin's reluctance to speak as he wished was a reaction to Sinfest's presence and a measured attempt not to outshine him, then I would thank you for that very interesting perspective. A valuable insight into why one person my chose to stay back somewhat in order not to overshadow someone above them in their structure. Corbin has, as you say, stated his desire to speak more often in the streets and I look forward to that as much as anyone.

It must be said that if he had decided not to do so, that would have made little difference to me. It is up to him what he does, as it is up to anyone what they do. Again, that's the point of the initial question. Its about each individual's perspective and opinion. I was not having a go at anyone. If push comes to shove, I honestly don't care who does what. I was merely observing in order to create a point of reference from which to draw opinion. No offence was meant to anyone.

Jordan, thanks for your input. That does highlight the quandaries people often find themselves in. Whatever the individual's moral polarity, there are invariably situations that arise that cause people to make difficult decisions. Some may find themselves forced to compromise or even rethink their previously held beliefs. Life is after all an organic thing and sometimes a change of perspective is unavoidable in order to move forward. An interesting point indeed. Thank you for your contribution.

At this point I would just like to add that I have never cared who does what, who holds what belief or perspective, I don't care if someone talks all the time or never at all. None of it matters to me on a personal level. This is just a discussion. A meeting of opinions, experiences and perspectives, nothing more.

Sam, dress it up however you want, but when you say "We have seen a city head killed for being mute by a mute who I dare say won't say too much in future." you must KNOW what thoughts you are putting in people's heads. Hide your hand all you want after throwing that rock, but your are not being as subtle as you think. That is not a way to present an objective fact. So you may say you don't have an opinion yet that seems like the most opinionated sentence I've seen in quite a while.

I do recall you saying the same line not long ago in a speech aimed at CorbinRussel, And by the looks i am not the onlyone here that came to this conclusion Sam is Corbin the only leader that dont come to the streets? Why dont you start counting all the leaders speeches in the streets. 

Betsy walks into the street hitching up her skirt.  Behind her trails a gaggle of young men.  Handing a small haggis to Romeo she pats him on the head.

Thanks love, you say the sweetest things.

Sam, Sam, Sam…great to see you in the streets.  Last weekend you told me I was the only one for you.  I took you to your word and I even had “Sam’s” tattooed, well you know where and look at you today, referencing tyrannical beauties and statuesque goddesses.  When will I ever learn?

Anyway, I digress.  Duplicity is what makes the world go round.  People would find it hard to bear a grudge if everyone did exactly as they said they would and this life without grudges is a little bit duller. 

The benefits of being a stand-up guy are plain for all to see.  You gain a reputation for being reliable and who wouldn’t want that?  The only problem being, stand-up guys rarely get the girl and always finish last.  Should we say what we mean?  Yes of course.  Should we mean what we say? Absolutely but unfortunately there are very few true absolutes.  You can rationalise anything.  If among this rationalisation excuses are made that sometimes find their way to the streets.

Of course that means mistakes will be made, usually when dealing with family and especially when dealing with friends.  It takes a very special someone who can stay true to what they mean and say and I have come across very few in this way of life.

Alistair you are right, it was quite a pointed comment. In hindsight I should have chosen to word that a little les directly as wording it the way I did has only served to cause distraction from my intended debate. I'll endeavour to consider such things more extensively in future.

Chris, I did make a comment in another topic. I do hold a personal opinion on the matter. I do not presume that opinion to be either the correct view or a more relevant view than anyone else's. Its just my opinion. Like everyone else's. As for watching other crew leaders, I watch everyone in the streets and take an active interest in all facets of the community. It interests me.

Betsy. I may have encounters with various beauties but you are the gal for me. There is only one pikey bare knuckle boxing babe to hold my heart and that's you, you know this. On an altogether less tantalising note, thanks for your contribution. A very valid point. Food for thought there.

Jordan quietly speaks to one of her colleagues away from the crowd then rejoins the conversation.

It seems like quite a lot of people are taking this speech as a personal attack. This isn’t the first time a situation happened in our business that resulted in speeches and debates. When we see people jump ship we hear speeches about traitors and loyalty. This type of speech about the topic in general is nothing new.

In New York we encourage our members to be active in the streets, to debate and disagree, as long as it’s respectful. Big_Sam came out here with a speech about a topic and asked for opinions. Regardless if you agree with him or not he has been respectful and we hope to hear more speeches from him.

Neutrality, that’s the line you’re taking, really? Clearly that skin isn’t as thick as you’re claiming otherwise you’d stand by the offending comment regardless of the potential consequence.  

I know I certainly stand by my words, offensive as they may be, as generally that was the point and I don’t mind saying so, it’s provocation with an understanding of the consequences but simultaneously with a clear conscience. 

You’ve offended me and I’ve offended you and perhaps one or two others by the sounds of things, but honestly I’m not breaking a sweat anytime soon, perhaps to my own detriment but I’m sitting comfortable over in Philadelphia, content in the knowledge that I’ve stood next to my own, jeopardizing them in the process granted but that’s what it’s about, being a stand up guy means exactly that, you take a stand, ready to fall. 

I am after all, old fashioned.

Betsy does make a valid point about duplicity creating a driving force for many in our community and can create some interesting situations. However there always has to remain a balance between the duplicity and those who can be trusted. Absolute distrust can be every bit as frustrating and boring as absolute honor.

It's not true that the stand up guy always finishes last. I come from a long line of them. I had a relative who once found himself in this thing of ours after his father died in the take down of the great Deimne. At the time there was a man who was in Deimne's crew who had found his way safely to another city and this relative of mine was very vocal in his displeasure of this man's survival. Through a very strange twist of fate my relative ended up finding himself working for this man who's death he was such a vocal proponent of just a short time before.

Alas, he was driven by his own integrity to remain loyal to this man despite how he felt about this man's survival and despite how he disagreed with how he came to be there. My relative stood by this man through several wars that seemed hopeless only to come out the other side as victors. That loyalty was rewarded with the chance to hep build one of the greatest empires this thing of ours had ever seen and eventually my relative ended up as the Godfather of his own city.

He also got the girl at the time too.

Duplicity and disloyalty is not the only way to find yourself in the most intriguing of situations. It's not the only way to get to the top. It's not the only way to win.

Oxane, I honestly don't care. I have my opinions on things, I have not denied those opinions or backed down from them. I have not said my opinions were the absolute either. They are my views, I hold those views. People can agree or disagree with them, thats the beauty of it. I respect your steadfastness. Holding to your beliefs and standing by your word regardless of consequence is certainly a mark of strong character. That is commendable in any scenario. You making pubescent comments for no reason than to piss me off, well its only going to get one response. But you knew that as you said it.

It might be a tad alarming to the rest of your city that you claim to be content to put them all in potential jeopardy for the sake of speaking out on a subject. Whether that be this one or any other. I'm all for speaking out but I would be certain to stress to my family and city head that my life is not worth the threat of action against our number. With all the fuss I have said as much to them this very day. Family and city come before my own life in my priorities.

But then, I am after all, old fashioned.

Zombie awoke from her slumber and yawned. Last night she was treated an exciting night out with Al_Bundy. Of course it was strictly platonic eventing. The man had a wife somewhere! Zombie attempted to turn him onto the fine are of eating brains, when that failed, she took off with one of the waitresses. The morning after, Zombie finds herself sitting in a dumpster. Various body parts are scattered around her. She had even used the torso as a pillow. Who knew those things could be so comfy?

She hopped out of bin, onto the cracked pavement of the back ally and suddenly found herself on the ground. Her wrist bone sticking from her flesh, her hand turned the opposite way it should.

What the...

Zombie cursed silently to herself, picking up a banana peel with her working had. She looked around, trash was over taking the ground, it was everywhere. Now, she usually had no problem with trash, heck she often slept in it, but as long as that trash was disposed of in it's proper place. Zombie picked herself up off the ground, twisted her hand to be angled the proper way, popped the bones back in and relocated the bones. By the time she stumbled out of the ally the injury was almost healed, but her vision was now the problem.

Maybe it was because trash just tried to kill her, but all of a sudden it was much more apparent. Old newspapers caught in the sewage drain, cigarette butts nestled between cracks in the sidewalk, homeless people begging her for her change. A block down Zombie stumbled into a crowd that first lifted her spirits of the world she was damned to return to, but then after listening to a few speak up after she was filled in of the initial speech.

It seems I'm a bit late to the party, but I sense much animosity in the air. Thankfully this nice paper boy next to me filled me on what everyone seems so defensive about. What's my trick? I told him I wouldn't eat him.....right now.

She flashed a quick grin.

First things first. Was there a secret message that I missed. Last time I checked the streets were a place where we could all come together and discuss things, like opinions. No wonder it never happens, if you bring your opinion to the streets, address something you've viewed or have a question for the general public you will be hunted down by a mob and nailed to a tree.

Alistair, it's all of our business and we have the write to question anything in our world. Curiosity is human trait. Just because a situation doesn't effect one directly does not mean it does not have the chance to effect indirectly. If I were to pick up all the trash I saw on my stroll to join you happy folk and put it all in your neighbors yard. I'd be creating a problem for your neighbor, but what if the wind picked up and scattered that trash into your yard. Are you going to a have a problem now as well? The act wasn't done directly to you, but it effects you. Maybe you won't even care about the trash that litters our streets, but man, even us, the dirty scum of the earth, the criminals, the mobsters need a clean planet to live on. On an ending note for you, pull the stick out of your ass. Big Sam came back and gave you a thoughtful reply and you are just throwing the same issue you had with his initial speech back in his face. That's not productive.

Zombie sighs and turns her attention to the next on her list, but then stops for a moment, taking her own boss into consideration.

Mr. Flannery,you'd rather hide yourself away on IRC avenue then actually dive into our world, into our streets and discuss matters here? I understand that some things should be discussed behind closed doors, but if what if everything was discussed in secrecy. There would be no activity, there would be no voice. You're my boss, my mentor, I look up to you as do others in the crew and you're telling us that everything should go down in the coffee shops. To deprive our streets of life.

Zombie looks away from her boss, disappointed.

Oh Oxane, your particular demeaning opinion is unconvincing why you are trying to tell someone else not to do what you are doing? Do what I say, not what I do sort of thing? Oxane, you are obviously not a stand up fellow. Threatening Sam, promising you'll take his life if he speaks ill of your boss again. Wouldn't that place you in the same area of disrespect you've placed Sam? Possibly worse? You don't need to answer that. You have no problem being obnoxious in the streets, shooting off your mouth and giving your crew leader a big I don't care how I represent your family in public. You haven't even once touched the original point of this discussion. Instead of being full of yourself why don't you give me your opinion of why sometimes people break promises in our world.

She takes a deep breath and exhales.

Don Civilian, if you'd like to debate about the late Don Sinfest take it three blocks down. Go eat your heart out. But if you'd like to contribute to the original point please, stick around for a while, grace us with your knowledge and your opinion of the current subject at hand.

Zombie rolls her neck from one shoulder to the other.

I completely agree with what Jordan said and it was very nice and refreshing to actually be able to see that some listened, didn't take extreme offense and can share their knowledge and experience with us. I also enjoyed listening to Betsy_Poke, Sammich and Romeo and I'm sorry if I forget anyone else - I owe ya a brain.

Now and finally, time to throw my own two cents in.

Along with what Jordan has already covered I believe we also live in a world with those who make pretend promises. WhereWasI lightly covered this before breaking down in some strange foreign language to my ears. These people have no intention of following through with what they claim they can do, what they will do and how they will do it. It's all for show, maybe to grab that empty city for themselves or to become an advisory to their boss so they can feel all fuzzy inside knowing how they got to their goal was all a big scam.

Besides the blatant souls that believe false favors and manipulation will get them places I believe some people say things they feel they should say only because they feel the pressure of society. Since the topic of crew leaders activity in the streets has come up multiple times here and over the last few days I'll use it as an example. Crew leaders may feel pressured to visit the streets more often then they'd like. I think a crew leader should have a healthy street presence and this is not judged upon the quantity of street replies, but on the quality.

Recently, Mr. Russell out of Philly has pledged to all that he will be in the streets now that he has taken over the reins of Philly. I look forward to this, I always look forward to listening to the opinions of the leaders of our world. But I am not going to scoff at Mr. Russell and say "you aren't holding true on your word" if I only see him once or twice a week. Or any other crew leader for that matter.

It's nice how all the rude people and the people that like criticizing other people's decisions (even if it's none of their business) like to also claim that the streets are where we can come and discuss and say... apparently whatever the fuck we want.

Since I have now removed this stick up my ass, feel free to shove it up yours.