PoisonousJelly is walking down the street while his monkeys are on the prowl for soap boxes. He notices one protruding from a back alley and motions for his small monkey army to destroy it. Smiling at a job well done he walks to the cafe on the corner of the street. The kind that had an out door seating area. He takes a seat at a table on the outside of the cafe and orders a coffee from the perky little waitress. While waiting he turns to face the street and can hear all that is going on. His coffee arrives as Fozzie arrives and takes a seat to his right. Fozzie orders a coffee too and they begin to speak. Quietly enough to not let the Civilians hear but confident enough that the Mafia snoops will get a decent enough volume on the conversation.


So, how's it going Fozzie? Not seen you much today, nothing I should know about is there? No? Good. Quiet days are often needed in our way of life. Anyway... You know what's been on my mind recently? I can't seem to shake it. It's past glory, not in the sense that most people use the phrase but more along the lines of empty cities. Those that are void of any Mafia influence and there for no good to any inter city business we may want to conduct. Then those cities are eventually given a proven member of our community who are told to go and spread the Mafia influence and start up business again. Now that, I am all for and have no quarrel with. It's what comes next that I really can't see the point with.


"I/we will strive to bring [insert city name here] back to it's former glory." - "I/we will make this city as great as it once was."

Now I don't know about anyone else out there but that's not what I want for our fine city of Las Vegas. I don't want her past glory or for it to be as great as it once was. I want it to be better. I want her future glory to surpass anything that our city and hell, even our country has ever seen. I want her to be the greatest thing the world has ever seen and maybe ever will see for a very long time. Don't get me wrong here... I respect that this city has seen so many greats since we started to conduct business here many moons ago but I don't want to be the same as them... I want to be better. Should we not all strive for this rather than striving to be as good as? I certainly think so.

The flicker of an ear belonging to the man on the table next to Fozzie and PJ catches his attention. He turns to face him full on and can easily tell he had been listening to the whole conversation. He was also extremely recognisable as a figure of the underworld, PJ smirked, lit a cigarette and nodded to the stranger.

Well my fellow Mafioso... What do you think?


(Note: This is not a dig at those who have recently made speeches regarding Chicago but I will admit those speeches acted as a catalyst for something I have wanted to share for quite some time)

I personally think that people say they want to be as good as someone or as good as something out of respect for what previous leaders/Godfathers of that city have done prior.

However now that you mention it, it does seem a bit odd, why be satisfied with merely equaling what someone else has done before you when you have the opportunity to do that and then so much more.

As mobsters we strive to do the best we can, for ourselves and for our families, we strive to be the best we can possibly be. So why limit our aims, why aren't people aiming to make places better than ever before? Hell, maybe its just human nature.

*While sipping his coffee enjoying a lovely brunch with a lady he had just met Popcorn was distracted by a conversation he had overheard, speaking about something no civilian would know about. He looks over and sees a prominent figure in his 'line of work' along with another member. He takes another sip then fixes his chair to face slightly towards pj and fozzie*

"Sorry for listening in but I can understand where your coming from. Nobody should want to do just as good as someone else in anything they try to do. In this situation in particular there should be an increased drive to push past 'former glories' especially since the past leaders were removed for whatever reason."

*Popcorn pauses as the waitress comes by to refill the cups*

"We all know it is out of respect which is perfectly fine. I myself probably would have worded it the same way if I hadnt heard this conversation. But none the less your statements do ring true."

*Popcorn stops talking abruptly as he notices the lady he was having brunch with gets up to leave because she was being ignored*

"O well. She couldn't last with me anyways."

*He grabs his cup and continues drinking as if nothing happened*

WhereWasI sets down the sniper rifle pointed at PoisonousJelly and walks down the stairs and out the door. He approaches the crowd and begins to speak.

First and foremost, slow days are terrible and I should slap you for ever suggesting otherwise.

WhereWasI slaps a nearby monkey and watches it get mad. He notices it reaching for his gun so he throws a banana at Fozzie and watches it beat the hell out of him and then calmly eat the banana sitting on its victim.

On to your next topic. I believe the point of bringing up past glory is to give the people something to picture what you want your city to eventually become. We all know people aren't simply going to recreate old cities, but what's wrong with trying to paint a picture? And you can believe you'll be better than past cities, but you'll have an easier time getting people to help you if you give credit to the past regimes people's journals speak highly of.

(OOC: I actually agree with PJ, he was simply too lazy to find someone to debate with him, so I may or may not have been bribed to simply play the devil's advocate.)

Ha!

You watch your mouth Mister before I have the monkeys stick you back in your cage back at HQ.

I believe that you can easily pay respect to the past generations who have once inhabited the city and built something strong from it but I also believe you can do this at the same time as explaining that you want the city to become something bigger and greater than it has seen before. The people before are long dead and as respectable Mafiosi we do our best to pay respects to them, I understand that. What I don't understand is the need to match the glory rather than better it.

Fozzie awakes from his slumber in the shadows at the mention of the infamous monkeys

Keep those bastards away from me!! Fozzie aimlessly waves his gun around as if to scare off the monkeys

..Well, now they're gone I can safely offer my own thoughts on the matter at hand. Past glory, you say? I feel such comments are made purely with honourable intention, as WWI has stated its simply to allow the gathered public a picture in their mind for them to imagine what sort of city one intends to build. The real truth is many of us were never around for the previous reign in cities, such is the length of time some have laid bare. So why is it we persist with the comments of this nature? If someone was to make LA their own and made reference to its previous glory, how many people around our streets could tell us the previous Godfather and his/her leaders? (granted, I know the answer, but the point stands not all will)

I believe you've made an interesting point PJ, much like that of your public outburst against the Soap boxes (though we know that was down to the Monkeys, you can't fool us there!) you've found another common oddity in our lives.

Hopefully others will share their own thoughts on the matter..

I always take nostalgia and people coveting the past in a somewhat idolised form with a pinch of salt, as generally it was never a great a picture as is being painted.

People will always refer to the ‘good old days’ and ‘bringing back former glorys’ yawn yawn etc etc...  but were things really that much better or were they really that great? Maybe they was and maybe you will achieve this greatness once more. However I never see any narratives or tall tales afterwards that can help paint a picture to me as to why they personally feel it was so great and magical to them or their ancestors. Short stories of when so-and-so took out so-and-so or when so-and-so once told  this really funny joke which made so-and-so piss his/her pants

Its fake nostalgia, you might of read a book once about a particular city or leader at a particular time but you can’t feel nostalgic about something you might not of even experienced.

People will always refer back to the cliche buzzwords when opening up a new HQ, its easy, uncomplicated. In most cases, change the names and you’ll have in essence what boils down to the same speech over and over again. Don’t get me wrong I know why people do it apart from laziness. It helps create a positive association, a little mental pick me up that reminds people of the ‘good times’. Unfortunately nine times out of ten it will just boil down to empty words with broken promises, all too many times I see crew speeches with grand visions of glory disappear into the abyss, together with the crew leader.

Rather than harking back to the past I would much rather people be creative and do something that isn’t done too often when unveiling a crew, be original and forward thinking. Forget the past, what does the future hold. You only get one chance at making a good first impression as a leader. Spell out what you plan to do in order to achieve this greatness you desire, what will your crew mandate be? whats going to be the cut of your threads

Doing the same things and copying the same blueprint over and over again, expecting different results is the sure definition of insanity. For the cycle to be repeated once more

So... who's next for the straight jacket?

Jax

Each city is unique, and how each grou[ of people will go about building up their city will also be unique, every single person is different and everyone will want to therefore do things differently, and like Jax says actions are louder than empty words.

This is why there will ablways be conflict no matter what people do to make a 'good community', makes things interesting. I'n im not saying dont be unique and follow the crowd, in fact I discourage that, in the end it's what you beleive is good for your city that counts and what will make the difference.

Sam stops feeding the group of monkeys gathered around him, throwing the last of the fruit chunks off into a nearby flowerbed. The majority of the monkeys charge after the flying chunks. One remained glued to Sam's shoulder stroking his bald head with trance-like fascination. Sam petted it gently and joined the discussion.

There have been some solid points raised here by you guys. Nothing much anyone could argue with. And indeed PJ, thanks for bringing a discussion that has genuine merit.

As for my own view on it. I think it is not disrespectful not to aim to replicate what previous regimes had created. Indeed I think it would be disrespectful to the leaders that authed you to take a leadership position, not to try and create something better. Its your job!

As each member of our bloodlines is a little wiser and a little more refined than the one that went before it, so to should be the families and cities we build. If we are unable to do anything but aspire to things that have already existed, then we are devoid of the creativity that should be a benchmark for selecting such leaders in the first place.

I must stress. None of this is to detract from any of the great achievements that have gone before us. Some monumental things have been created and our community has benefited massively from some giant minds and brilliant leaders. What I am saying is simply this... If you don't think you can bring something fresh to the table that will help your city evolve, you should rethink your desire to lead.

We should always strive to be bigger, better, faster or stronger than we have or cities have in the past. For some this task is a fairly simple one, for others it can be exceedingly difficult. The comments made by Mr Jelly are equally attributable to individuals as they are to cities.

For some it would be a simple job to be better than the last member of the bloodline, for others it is a massive challenge. Consider those who have reached the pinnacle of our world the Godfathers it is quite difficult to top that I would say, in fact possibly only one has managed it in recent history.

First and foremost though my blood line reads its family archives and looks to improve each time they come back like I would hope most cities do.

perking his ears up Dante can't help but listen to the exchanges going on around him. He waits until the right moment before adding his own opinion

I feel sorry for those who aspire to bring back past glories, or rebuild cities into what they were. To me that just shows a lack of true ambition, it's down right lazy also. For every city we have someone has set the bar. But that bar isn't there to be reached, it's there to be surpassed.

To anyone who is a leader have a good look around, do you really want to be the guy or girl who was sorta like that other guy from way back when? Or do you want to carve out your own place in history, so that the guy from way back when is barely mentioned when your talked about.

None of you should settle for just being, getting that suit and maybe even running a city, hell even reaching the lofty ranks of godfather. Those are things that have been achieved time and time again by more than a handful of people now, it's not as rare as it once was.

Don't just rebuild a city, carve out your own place in history, do something that certifies that your name will be remembered for more than, oh they had a crew in city x for a time.

fromwining slightly she looks around.

I often find everyone feels their age was the golden age, X was great and led with gusto, or Y offered great mentoring and that made the world a better place.

The truth is we ternd to idolise people based on a previous situation and though x, y and z could of been a total idiot to many to you they were special.  The truth is even more the idea of former glory is so limiting and gives a narrow prospective on where to build and be judged on,  The truth is most people need to embrace the present and improve it instead of thinking i only want it to be like x,y and z were here aqnd of that standard; wheres the evolution in that?