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| My Family | Started by: Alessia on Jun 29, '08 10:27 |
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No. A leader should not require constructive criticism. They should be wise enough and experienced enough to not require it except within the inner confines of his/her upper structure. A speech like this only opens one to the masses, from wherein it is safe to assume you will be subject to the dangers of fickle hearts and minds. |
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| Reply by: LostPaladin at Jun 30, '08 11:50 | |
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Yes. We as Mafiosos are supposed to conduct ourselves in a certain way, especially to those in positions of power. If the leader isn't experienced enough, then they will meet their doom eventually. This is why people in general don't like to come to the streets as it is because people get pissed on like they are a bunch of hoodlums. I know we don't get much entertainment around these parts nowadays, but this isn't the place for it, nor are you helping things. If you want change, set the example...not reduce yourself to the person's inability that you are calling him or her on. If you do that you are no better, and most times worse off, because you claim to know better. Now for those who don't adhere to a Code, they can do whatever the hell that they like. But I guarantee if they keep doing it, they too will meet their maker. |
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| Reply by: Kira_Esposito at Jun 30, '08 12:10 | |
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Follow the leader, inappropriate speech = inappropriate response. The masses do what they can get away with. Your "code" is in your own mind as it is as flexible as this world allows it to be from "pouding mothers into beds" to "omg my member died" It is not for plebs to set the standard as ultimately they can only perform to their own expectations and no one else will give a shit. Demanding that the masses step up to the mark is nothing more than lazy influence as it is unrealistic. Presuming those in bold will die if shit presumes those residing over the weapons of their destruction judge them in the same way. Many average leaders have made it to the top through a mixture of luck and basic power plays. Living the ideal world is like riding on the shoulders of giants. Don't be stupid, you're going to fall off. |
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| Reply by: LostPaladin at Jun 30, '08 12:53 | |
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| LostPaladin, if I may ask. Well get a response. Who was your father or some of your fore fathers? | |
| Reply by: ConnorMcManus at Jun 30, '08 13:25 | |
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I'm not here to brag about the past, I'm here to contribute today. Unless there is a valid reasoning for this wondrance? |
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| Reply by: LostPaladin at Jun 30, '08 13:28 | |
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| There is a valid reason, but maybe it'd be better to discuss in public. Also, if you are who I think you may be go ahead and brag about what you're fathers achieved because its not what you achieved it was them. So if living threw your fathers lives is all you can do then its sad. | |
| Reply by: ConnorMcManus at Jun 30, '08 13:29 | |
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| I mean't *not* in public. Sorry. | |
| Reply by: ConnorMcManus at Jun 30, '08 13:36 | |
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Everyone lives through their past, denying that is to deny friendship and business acument. Surviving on your past achievements only is something different. |
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| Reply by: LostPaladin at Jun 30, '08 13:47 | |
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| How is LostPaladin living "threw" his forefathers Connor, when he has actually refused to name them in public? Looks like you made a bit of a boob out of yourself there pal. | |
| Reply by: IronMan at Jun 30, '08 13:51 | |
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Basically... Anyways, everyone is living throught there past since it's given you experience, friends and other things everyone does. |
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| Reply by: Tony-Papalony at Jun 30, '08 13:55 | |
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He refused to name them because a lot of people wouldn't agree that his past isn't worth bragging about simply because they weren't liked. Then again who is liked by every single Mafioso. I don't live in my past Paladin. Otherwise I never would have survived as long as I have which still isn't very long. As far as past achievements and living on them and such. Mine I'm not afraid to say were mistakes that put my fathers and mothers in their graves. There for giving me the knowledge now to hold onto and prosper in our world. IronMan as far as living threw his past. Who is he to tell a leader what they're to know and not to know being a leader. Yes his fathers may have been leaders, but he has not. He has no knowledge. I came here because Alessia is a friend of mine and Mafioso who should have no word in telling her what to do. I didn't come here looking for a fight. If that's all you people want then I'm sure you can find someone else. I'm a man of peace. |
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| Reply by: ConnorMcManus at Jun 30, '08 14:30 | |
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That's all nonsense so I'm going to ignore most of it. I wasn't telling Alessia anything, she has rank,she has headquarters, she has my respect. I was merely pointing out the etiquette of leader, mob, social dynamics. It is clear that certain improvements may have to be made to improve logetivity and I stated the principles. That Conor, is kindness, consideration and intelligent discussion not misconstruction and insult. If I was you, I'd write that down. |
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| Reply by: LostPaladin at Jun 30, '08 14:41 | |
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| I wasn't pointing the finger at you. If that is what you're truely saying then you're obviously not one of the mafiosi I'm speaking of. | |
| Reply by: ConnorMcManus at Jun 30, '08 14:53 | |
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| Well you named me but ok chief, whatever you say. | |
| Reply by: LostPaladin at Jun 30, '08 14:55 | |
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This speech is a perfect example of why I love this place so much. Where else can you have a "lets see who can be the biggest douche bag contest". She makes one clear statement just trying to protect her family and everyone jumps on her like a pack of wild wolves, I love it!. walks around chanting Jerry Jerry Jerry |
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| Reply by: Yelir at Jun 30, '08 15:17 | |
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First of all, I knew you were going to drive this conversation down the path of talking about leadership, LostPaladin. When I was simply pointing out that when one disagrees with what someone has said, he or she can do so without completely bashing the speaker. Especially when the person is in power. Next time please address what I was saying, thanks. But in answer to your comments... "Follow the leader, inappropriate speech = inappropriate response." We aren't sheep nor children, so if someone says something that is less than stellar, that does NOT give us permission to act like we are on the playground. As I said, if you are quick to criticize someone, then act better, not worse, than the one at which you are throwing stones. "Your "code" is in your own mind as it is as flexible as this world allows it to be from "pouding mothers into beds" to "omg my member died"" Yes, I guess respect towards others is all in my head, and not at all useful in business dealings of any nature. "Demanding that the masses step up to the mark is nothing more than lazy influence as it is unrealistic. " Or maybe people who believe that sentiment are just lazy? People who are natural born leaders would think setting the example in their everyday actions is just automatic. "It is not for plebs to set the standard as ultimately they can only perform to their own expectations and no one else will give a shit." Every leader was stationed as a "pleb" one time in their life, sir. It's the ability to think further than just a pleb mindset is what causes them to move on to bigger and greater things. Mindset, in other words. "Presuming those in bold will die if shit presumes those residing over the weapons of their destruction judge them in the same way. Many average leaders have made it to the top through a mixture of luck and basic power plays." Yes, and they are the ones who lower the standard of what it means to be on "top". "Living the ideal world is like riding on the shoulders of giants. Don't be stupid, you're going to fall off. " To make it big, you have to think big. If you lower your expectations like you are implying that people should do, you will never make it anywhere. And sure you might fall off, but then again, you might not. But you will never know if you don't try. And as I said, my point was that when we disagree, we don't have to resort to name calling, regardless of who it is that is making a speech. Our choices and actions define our character. If you want to make this about something else, feel free to start another discussion on how people are sheep or we have to insult people just because they say something we don't like. |
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| Reply by: Kira_Esposito at Jun 30, '08 17:47 | |
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We all make mistakes, but as we have seen in the past a simple mistake can lead to the takedown and slaughter of entire families. A leader must be careful and must be prepared to represent their family to the best of their ability. We all can have a bad day and get emotional when we lose someone we care about, it happens and I think every mobster can understand that, but in our line of work every mistake you make when you are in the public eye - is remembered and noted and is part of the legacy you leave when you pass away. Shrugs shoulders about the whole thing.. and goes back into the Casino to play some slots and make some cash for his family.. |
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| Reply by: Alonzo at Jul 01, '08 05:36 | |
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It is not our place to act better or in a more dignified manner, Kira. We're not even made members. A repeated sentiment throughout this speech is that we must not rest on our laurels and cruise through life on the back of a father's name; but to me your opening statement suggests we should draw on the knowledge of our fathers. Were I to do both of these it would be a double standard on my part. It's no secret who my daddy is, but I don't shamelessly brag about it at every turn, which allows me, I feel, the right to learn as I go. I am no my father or anyone else, I have to learn my own lessons in life. I am assuming LostPaladin over there is of the same persuasion, and after all the natural thing to do is to copy and try to emulate a leader as they are supposed to, by definition, lead. Perhaps person 1 say X doesn't give person 2 the right to say Y, but when all is said and done, that is the logical thing to assume, at least in my opinion. "Or maybe people who believe that sentiment are just lazy? People who are natural born leaders would think setting the example in their everyday actions is just automatic." This is the only statement I strongly disagree with here. In my opinion, people are not natural born leaders. There is no one who perfectly fits the mould, and even those who come close are guided by personal experiences rather than born with the logic and intelligence to run a family. For instance, I can think of leaders who were superb when dealing within the confines of their own city, but woefully ignorant when it came to the community as a whole, and then vice versa with other leaders. Though, if we view natural born leaders as people who's bloodline has has lead before; I still wouldn't say setting an example with everyday actions would be automatic because as I've just implied, different leaders' strengths lie in different areas. |
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| Reply by: IronMan at Jul 01, '08 08:23 | |
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IronMan, if you were here for the beginning of this speech, I said that everyone who made insulting remarks should observe what and HOW to speak when you disagree with what someone has said. Lost Paladin was the one who spoke about leadership, and I said even though that wasn't the main idea of what I was saying, I would address his comments. And here you are bringing up the leadership aspect again. "A repeated sentiment throughout this speech is that we must not rest on our laurels and cruise through life on the back of a father's name; but to me your opening statement suggests we should draw on the knowledge of our fathers." Where did I say or suggest that? Or are you just looking for things to make your speech relevant now? "I am assuming LostPaladin over there is of the same persuasion, and after all the natural thing to do is to copy and try to emulate a leader as they are supposed to, by definition, lead." There were 2 leaders who spoke; I basically said to follow the example of the one leader I mentioned, and from what I'm hearing, you are basically saying to me, "No - I want to follow the example of the other leader even though I disagree with what was said or how it was said." "This is the only statement I strongly disagree with here. In my opinion, people are not natural born leaders. There is no one who perfectly fits the mould, and even those who come close are guided by personal experiences rather than born with the logic and intelligence to run a family." This isn't the nature vs nurture debate here, Iron. If it were, I would say that people's environment has a role in enhancing or downplaying one's characteristics. To put it simply, the ability for one to be a leader lies in both the qualities that they were born with, as well as the environment that shapes them. Have you ever observed children on a playground? There are always those who think of the games to play, and there are those who follow them. So you see how you assume? I wasn't even talking about leaders in "this" aspect, because for the umpteenth time, I was not focusing on leadership, just on behavior. And you keep talking about bloodlines...are you sure we are even on the same page here? |
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| Reply by: Kira_Esposito at Jul 01, '08 08:51 | |
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Don't the group of leaders create the right type of phenotype so as to breed balanced and well trained leaders? That in itself is nurturing, genotype plays little to no role. In this world nature only plays a defined role as with the right type of nurturing anyone can be competant. Everyone is probably thinking of exceptions as they read this but that's just poor management and a lack of desire to fix something which doesn't work to it's fullest potential. |
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| Reply by: LostPaladin at Jul 01, '08 13:57 | |
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