Kurtz, I'm not even saying that an announcement is a bad idea. If anything, I'm disagreeing with the fact that people claim that it is the ONLY way. To be honest, I would enjoy hearing these announcements and I would probably even make a congratulatory comment in some of them.

The problem I see is some people believing their way is the ONLY way. I'm fine with hearing somebody say their way is the "best" way. Like I've said before, we are all entitled to opinions.

I'm sure there are indeed some places where we are safe from the public eye, but I still don't think standing on a soap box and holding a "press conference" of sorts is the best way to go, but then again, I'm not really against it.


And to you, my dear Shepard. I'm so glad you think so highly of yourself that you feel you can attempt to make multiple mockeries of people in (an)other crew(s).

"I understand sarcasm. Your problem is you're just not very good at it."

How would you know? I haven't been sarcastic. I'm not the one trying to make a mockery of other people's opinion's. I guess people who disagree with a speech have no place around you.

"Of course you had enough information, because you're part of the upper structure of a crew, THEY were so courteously notified while us peons simply go by what's said on the streets. I guess it's just my fault for being one of the hoi polloi and not be born with a silver spoon in my mouth."

You're talking about the last few examples and I'm talking since this new method has been implemented which goes several generations of my bloodline back. And not all of them... wait, actually, none of them were born with silverware anywhere. They always worked hard for what they achieved. As you can clearly see by my millions of bodyguards surrounding me since the day I was born, I was clearly born into royalty... Yeah, you're right, I do suck at sarcasm. I'll do my best to avoid it. If only to try to show you how one can disagree with somebody without trying to be a smartass.


"Roman's dead, you know. You don't have to keep kissing up to him, it's okay. As my family line was one of the bigger critics of Roman around, even I can acknowledge good things that he did. This was not one of them. Sorry you'd rather idolize a dead leader than pay attention to the living population."

You really made me laugh here. I never kissed his ass. Actually, a Don in my bloodline was shot just because of not kissing his ass in his joyous one year birthday. So my conscience is clear in that department. All I was trying to illustrate is that it worked well for a long time so even though your method may be better it certainly is not the ONLY way to do things around here.

"So, you believe a leader shouldn't be forced to come mingle with us common folk when making big changes to their city? I guess that's one way to think. An arrogant, egalitarian, egotistical way to think, but a way to think."

Correct. No leader should be FORCED to anything. You may make a VERY long list of things YOU think a good leader should do/have, but nobody should be forced to anything. And again, don't project your own thoughts into mine. It's not arrogance. Maybe not the way of communication you prefer, but the announcement was always made, just in another way.

"Oh we're smart enough to figure out if someone is a rogue or not."

You prove my point here. An announcement may be highly desirable but it's not indispensable.

"But without an announcement, well. If I had shot, for instance, SmallBlackMan before he was ever announced as a leader, and I claimed that I was fearing that there was a rogue about - even if that was a blatant lie - could you really blame me?"

Lie or not, I think everybody should be held accountable for their actions so shooting a leader without authorization from your own leader would surely qualify as a grave offense and I would hope to see punishment.

"In fact, to any shooters out there in this world, I encourage you to do just that the next time someone sets up without an announcement thread. Should be an interesting social experiment, to say the least."

So now you encourage rogue shooters to prove how dangerous rogue leaders can be? So you prove how dangerous something is by putting it in harm's way on purpose? Well, yeah, I guess that's one way to do things... Not the best, but certainly plausible.

"It's sad that the Left Hand Man of a crew is encouraging people to be silent on the streets and not ever speak up. I, however, would encourage people to speak out - even if it's only a "congratulations, sir" message - because then you can take them and help guide them into people who will speak out more often on more various topics. I guess your ideal world is a desolate, silent place. Which is a shame."

Not such a great job at trying to twist my words. I think I left myself much more open in previous comments than here. I'm not encouraging silence at all. I'm just preemptively criticizing all those that will come out of their slumber ONLY to say "Congratulations, Sir." never to be heard of again. Until the next auth speech, of course!

I would prefer to coach people to post in the HQ Bar and then the Business District and then, when they built up a style and a persona would I like to see them in the streets. I don't think a "congratulations, Sir." improves anybody's image.

I'm sorry, WhereWasI, I thought the Streets were a place where you could voice your opinions and start discussions - and make no mistake, this is a discussion, not an order to every CL to do it this way or ELSE so you can stop playing the victim card anytime, it just makes you seem really sad - on a variety of topics. Having been inundated with many MANY topics about pickpocketing over the last few days, I, for one, was overjoyed to see something different appear. Apparently you feel the opposite, that we're not allowed to voice our opinions, that being allowed to do so is only for a privileged few. Where do I get the feeling that you're full of yourself? From you being full of yourself.

Our crewleaders take care of us as well, despite your disingenuous assertions to the contrary. We simply believe that when authing someone new, a small statement of support and acknowledgement from the head of the city shouldn't be too much to ask for. Again, it's not LA's place to announce a new auth in NO. It's NO's place. As for your trigger happy claim, if it's being trigger happy to protect my family from a threat, real or perceived, then so be it. But I will do so gladly, because seeing someone set up without authorization means one thing and one thing only "Rogue". If you don't want your new auth getting shot at, take the time to make an announcement thread. Otherwise... shit happens.

"Again, it's not LA's place to announce a new auth in NO. It's NO's place"

And NO does announce it. To YOUR city head. Maybe ask yourself why it is you are not informed if you are such an esteemed member of your city and/or such a dangerous criminal we all need to make sure YOU know that they are not rogues so you don't get them shot.

Oh, and thank you Spider for not addressing me directly. I would have felt too intimidated by you long history and not feel worthy of replying to you.

Any chance we could all debate instead of flinging "witty" remarks at each other?

"How would you know? I haven't been sarcastic. I'm not the one trying to make a mockery of other people's opinion's. I guess people who disagree with a speech have no place around you."

Funny, I could have sworn you accused me of not understanding sarcasm in your first response to me. Yet, now you're claiming you weren't. Why, then, would you accuse me of not understanding sarcasm? Perplexing, unless you're simply lying now.

"As you can clearly see by my millions of bodyguards surrounding me since the day I was born, I was clearly born into royalty..."

As I can, actually, clearly see, your bloodline is one of the many that goes around trading on your ancestors names in order to get ahead in this world. I quite assure you, I saw you do it before, and I see you doing it now. So do many many other people. You mock being born into royalty, but make no mistake, that's how you see yourself, as though you're simply owed things.

"All I was trying to illustrate is that it worked well for a long time so even though your method may be better it certainly is not the ONLY way to do things around here."

My "method" is the way it worked for ten years. It's not a new method, it's not some radical idea. It's how things were, and the fact that we moved away from it simply shows the laziness that has pervaded our current society.

"Correct. No leader should be FORCED to anything."

A crew leader who doesn't spend time on the streets mingling with the people is the worst kind of crewleader, and should, quite simply, have their opportunity taken away and given to someone who won't squander it. It says a lot, to me, that you prefer mutes in leadership positions.

"Lie or not, I think everybody should be held accountable for their actions so shooting a leader without authorization from your own leader would surely qualify as a grave offense and I would hope to see punishment."

Sorry, I believe it's perfectly acceptable to shoot rogues, and without an announcement thread... that's all someone is. A rogue. To be shot at will.

"So now you encourage rogue shooters to prove how dangerous rogue leaders can be?"

No, I am encouraging people to defend their families from obvious threats of rogues. How much clearer do I need to be?

"I would prefer to coach people to post in the HQ Bar and then the Business District"

Oh, so you're okay with them speaking up in private, rather than letting them have their own views out in public because... they might embarrass you? Sad. You take someone who's shown a willingness to speak in public and teach them how they can do it better. Not just hide them away in a back room.

Shepard, apparently letting Cerberus reconstruct you means you missed most of what happens in the streets. You missed a great competition thrown by Valmont, some good creative pieces, and a couple of auth statements to say congrats in. You've also missed my little comical bits that people like to join in on. You could also come up with your own topic, all it takes is a little effort and creativity.

I never asserted your crewleader did anything wrong, I called out your inability to trust he's looking out for that and simply asking if you really are concerned. Again, you can state that privately because taking matters like this to the streets can be embarrassing for leaders and I'd assert they'd rather handle these things privately.

Also, every day someone lives and breathes with the capability to kill one of your fellow family members they're a potential threat. You want to shoot at my members for being capable of shooting you too? If every member is determining who's a threat and who's not we'd have a lot of bodies piling up quickly until we realized that idealogy was ridiculous.

Next, it's not your place to tell another city how to run anything about themselves. You can politely ask, but pettily bitching about the way they did something doesn't help in any way, shape, or form. And "shit happens" is never an acceptable answer no matter how much of a hard ass you think you are.

As for your comments to Aidan, You might not like that some Crew Leaders don't like the streets, but don't mind the ones I know that don't for not givng a shit about your opinion. They find other ways to communicate because it's really not that hard to find other ways to communicate. The important thing is that they communicate.

Firstly, WhereWasI, I have to ask... what's a Cerberus, and... what does that have to do with "reconstructing"? I can only assume that while you were skipping your OOCitis shot, you also manged to miss the fact that I did create a street thread of my very own, that was promptly ignored and passed over for the current deluge of pickpocketing threads. So I do appreciate your snide tone towards your assumption that I lack creativity and effort.

In case you hadn't noticed, my crew leader shares my feelings on this matter. He said so himself. So... I do trust that he's looking out for us all. Because he's come out and made his opinions clear.

I guess, in the end, what disappoints me the most is that both you and Aidan are Left Hand Men in your respective crews, and yet you're out here advocating that your leaders be allowed to be lazy, to sit in their offices all day long and do nothing, you believe that public speaking should never be required for a leader and that only communicating in mails is what makes a true leader. I believe the exact opposite, that the main priority for a leader is to, well, lead. Be out there at the forefront, not hiding behind passive-aggressive "but I mailed the other leeeeeeadeeeeeers" statements. They say the hardest part of leading is showing up, and clearly... that's true.

Now clearly I'm not going to speak for PoisonousJelly or whats-his-face over in New York, but I have to say that if I were a leader and you were my Left Hand and holding this position of passivity... I would be embarrassed. Embarrassed that my #2 man in my family was going out on the streets advocating leaders be lazy, and not responsible for their cities. Embarrassed that my #2 man was going out on the streets and advocating that leaders shouldn't speak publicly. Embarrassed that my #2 man was going out on the streets and advocating that leaders shouldn't have to actually lead. Embarrassed.

A crew leader who doesn't spend time on the streets mingling with the people is the worst kind of crew leader, and should, quite simply, have their opportunity taken away and given to someone who won't squander it. It says a lot, to me, that you prefer mutes in leadership positions.

Well first off, I'm not one to come to the streets often such as yourself and talk.  I do wonder them though.  Watching the kids play stick ball in the streets.  Mafioso's setting up a scavenger hunt.  And also, this, "debate".  If you want to call it as such.  Yes I'm usually one of your "mutes" and when I was a crew leader I did in fact refrain from speaking.  But fear not young Shepard, just because we do not share an interest in arguing a never ending circle of topic propaganda with you doesn't mean we haven't work hard for what we had/have achieved in this life.  Point being, the streets are not the only thing this world offers.  And side question, isn't IRC Ave a part of the "streets"?  What constitutes the right for people to only allow the streets be the only way to make a name for yourself, such as yourself, using this thread as a tool to promote your propaganda of "laziness" against some current and past leaders, for just an example?  Are not "men" of honor if we communicate other ways?  Do not judge our street presence but rather our intelligence.

No, I am encouraging people to defend their families from obvious threats of rogues. How much clearer do I need to be?

I do agree with this if the crew leader was in fact a real rogue.  However, your hiding behind your "unknowing" that the CL is a rogue. For what?  A reason to kill?  You know damn well as does everyone else that the person being set up isn't a rogue.  And if you're unsure, I'm sure your CL could shed some light for you before you even thought to ask.  Assuming you know your family's due diligence

Please excuse my missing of words as my batteries are not charged and are running low at the moment. 

"I do agree with this if the crew leader was in fact a real rogue. However, your hiding behind your "unknowing" that the CL is a rogue. For what? A reason to kill? You know damn well as does everyone else that the person being set up isn't a rogue. And if you're unsure, I'm sure your CL could shed some light for you before you even thought to ask. Assuming you know your family's due diligence"

And why should MY family be required to do the due diligence for New York? Why can't New York stand up and say "We're authing SmallBlackMan and we're very proud to do so, please, welcome him to our great city."

Is that, I don't know, too difficult? Are you NOT proud of him? Did you have laryngitis and simply couldn't speak? It's not LA's job to announce auths in NY. It's NY's job.

"And side question, isn't IRC Ave a part of the "streets"?"

No. Never have been. Never will be. IRC avenue is a separate place and is, in no way, the same as going out and speaking publicly. It is simply assumed that as a leader you're active in your own family coffeeshop, because if you're mute there as well...

"What constitutes the right for people to only allow the streets be the only way to make a name for yourself, such as yourself, using this thread as a tool to promote your propaganda of "laziness" against some current and past leaders, for just an example?"

Propaganda? Asking leaders to make announcement speeches when they decide to auth someone is "propaganda" now?

"Now clearly I'm not going to speak for PoisonousJelly or whats-his-face over in New York, but I have to say that if I were a leader and you were my Left Hand and holding this position of passivity... I would be embarrassed. Embarrassed that my #2 man in my family was going out on the streets advocating leaders be lazy, and not responsible for their cities. Embarrassed that my #2 man was going out on the streets and advocating that leaders shouldn't speak publicly. Embarrassed that my #2 man was going out on the streets and advocating that leaders shouldn't have to actually lead. Embarrassed."

Right, you want to make this personal, dig your own grave pal. I'm not looking to follow you down that idiotic path. I've earned my position by doing things you'll most likely never hear of. Just because people don't fit your stereotypical leader doesn't make them lazy and you're too stuck in your ways to see other people's opinions or talents. Have fun living in the past.

Embarrassed that my #2 man in my family was going out on the streets advocating leaders be lazy

Firstly, I'm the fucking #2 around these parts. Until WWI and his gang of Monkeys take me down, he'll remain as #3. Just had to clear that little bit up.

Secondly, I'm not going to bother with the pissing contest thats going on, I find it completely pointless. If you guys want to measure your dicks in public and argue about who's right and wrong, feel free. None of you are making your point of view any better for it.

And side question, isn't IRC Ave a part of the "streets"?

Jesus. Christ. Did I hear that right? Really? Thankfully my opinin on that is No. Never has nor hopefully ever will be a part of our Streets. The Coffee shops on IRC Avenue are a place where us criminals should go to get away from our life, sure there are some specific coffee shops where fellow family members hang out and these are more related to our life, but in general the Coffee shops should be seen as a place to chill, not an alternative to showing your face in public.

And why should MY family be required to do the due diligence for New York? Why can't New York stand up and say "We're authing SmallBlackMan and we're very proud to do so, please, welcome him to our great city."

If New York wanted to do that, I'm fairly sure they'd have done it. Why are YOU thinking your in a position to question their decision making? Really?

I saw the notice on PJ's desk that SmallBlackMan was setting up shop in New York. That was enough for me on that occassion. However, I'm not going to lie, I share the opinion that an address to the masses is something that I feel should still very much be a part of our society. Not because of the idiotic trigger happy mentality that we can apparently use to shoot down leaders who don't announce themselves to Tom Dick and Harry, but more so because I think it should be considered an honour for both the new leader and his City Head to announce such a thing. I remember seeing the joy on relatives faces when their Boss took the time from his busy schedule to present them to the masses and ensure that they were given a good start in life.

.. However (I do like that word), I absolutely HATE seeing people gather at such announcements and saying nothing more than "Congrats". If thats all you've got to say, fucking drop them a note. Seriously, THAT is lazy. If you are an aquaintence of this person and all you can muster is congrats, take a long hard look at yourself. If you've never met the man/woman before in your life and you simply state your appreciation of their new found position, why? Really, if you think they deserve a simple congratultions go visit them in person instead of simply muttering it in the middle of the streets.

For anyone that wishes to understand the manner in how to approach someone and congratulate them on their efforts, look no further than Marston and Kurtz. These two men know how to vidicate someones success. Everytime i've spotted them shaking hands with a new leader in our world they take the time to express at length how much they truly believe that person is deserving of the promotion and also normally bring along a gift for them. Can't get better than that, really.

Slash scratches his head a little

Ok, so I seem to have possibly got a little bit side tracked by the Circus here. Anyway, my main point of stopping by and joinin in with this "discussion" was simply to offer my point of view, hopefully i've managed to do so in a manner that people don't find Lazy..

And incase you missed my point amongst my babbling; Should City Heads announce their new leader? Yes, I believe they should. Do they have to? Hell no. Should we shoot their leaders if they don't? Good luck with that one, you'll find a grave beside them shortly after. Do pissing contests in the street make anyone look cool? Not really. And lastly, but most importantly, Will Monkeys ever take over the world? Watch this space.

The 'new school' crew leaders, as i refer to them, are trained in the way of the mute. They where mostly raised by mutes, so it is all they really know. Sit back, lean heavy on your earners, your currupted police officers, and boom, you're a succesful crew leader. I believe they dont even know that speaking and leading from the forefront is what helps to establish themselves as a good crew leader.

A sidenote to all of this, Shepard is debating his points without insults WhereWasI,you should follow suit. It puts a negative shine on your slanty suit when you toss around childish like insults.

OK, so this was fun at first but I realize you have the time and desire to bicker and twist my words until the end of time, so I'll try a different approach, I guess you're no fun to argue with because you just look for a way to sound smart regardless of if what you're quoting is true or not.

"As I can, actually, clearly see, your bloodline is one of the many that goes around trading on your ancestors names in order to get ahead in this world."

Nope. That is not true. I may have advertised my ancestor's names on myself when I showed up my face in this world, but only so people could find me easily nothing more. Many of my ancestors, who didn't do this, would bump into friends of my ancestor's fathers and they would go "Dude! I didn't know you had joined this way of life. I wish I had known sooner." or similar variations of that. So instead of showing up and spamming people who may or may not hear about my father's next of kin, I just let people know who I'm related to and they can decide if they want to contact me or not.


"I quite assure you, I saw you do it before, and I see you doing it now."

No. Never have, never will. The only times I would draw on my lineage is when my bosses ASK for us to tell them about our genetics when applying for a position in the family. Of course that those few times where my lineage gave me a tiny edged I cashed it in. But I never asked for anything due to who I'm related to. My bloodline has never been BG'd up and they have never been promised positions at birth. If I just happen to be in the right place and my bosses trust me to be the LH of the crew... should I turn down that role to prove I don't want to bank on my family's successes?


"A crew leader who doesn't spend time on the streets mingling with the people is the worst kind of crewleader, and should, quite simply, have their opportunity taken away and given to someone who won't squander it."

Again, your PERSONAL opinion. You are entitled to it.


"It says a lot, to me, that you prefer mutes in leadership positions."

Please tell me when I said I PREFERED mute leaders. All I said was that leaders shouldn't be FORCED to have a street presence.


"Sorry, I believe it's perfectly acceptable to shoot rogues,..."

I agree with you. Too bad you are about to twist this argument to either be difficult on purpose or to justify your bloodlust.

"...and without an announcement thread... that's all someone is. A rogue. To be shot at will."

Correction. That's what someone WAS. Back in THOSE days, a leader without a public announcement was a rogue.


"I am encouraging people to defend their families from obvious threats of rogues."

If they were so obvious, then they would have been gunned down already. What kept people at bay? Knoeing they were NOT rogues.


"How much clearer do I need to be?"

Oh, no. You are as clear as day. Even more transparent than you probably think, since we can all see through what you are trying to do twisting people's words.


""I would prefer to coach people to post in the HQ Bar and then the Business District"
Oh, so you're okay with them speaking up in private, rather than letting them have their own views out in public because... they might embarrass you? Sad. You take someone who's shown a willingness to speak in public and teach them how they can do it better. Not just hide them away in a back room."

OK, maybe I thought you wouldn't need to be explained the example in such detail but I'll accept my responsibility. You seemed capable of understanding what people say, but I should have known better.

I was referring ONLY to those people who just come out to say "Congrats, Sir". And yes, those are the people that I would prefer that they start building up their confidence little by little since MANY people are intimidated by the streets. You see, there are people who believe there are some out there picking on every word and twisting what people say. I know! I'm shocked as well! How could they think that?

I'm not sure when I talked about embarrassment either. Unless we are talking about the "one liners" I referred to already. Yes, those are pretty embarrassing...

Building up is not the same as hiding away. Those that already have views and opinions on their world, it goes without saying, are more than welcome to throw their hat in any street debate they feel like.


"you're out here advocating that your leaders be allowed to be lazy, to sit in their offices all day long and do nothing"

I'm still surprised at how short sighted you can be when you have shown a level of education capable of putting long sentences together. You seem to be measuring activity exclusively through street presence. It doesn't matter if the guy coaches each one of their members in private, and that every member of his crew is a capable hitter and proficient earner. The end all and be all is to have a street presence.


"you believe that public speaking should never be required for a leader"

Correct. Nothing should be required from a leader, except for what his Godfather expects of him. Whatever you think makes a good Crew Leader is in his benefit, but it is not a requirement. Convenient and desirable, but not mandatory.

"and that only communicating in mails is what makes a true leader."

Nope. But I've already established that.


"I believe the exact opposite,..."

Good to know that you believe a leader should NOT mail his people, that he ONLY should be gracing the rest of the world with his presence in the streets. That would be a fun crew, being ignored by your leader because he's too cool for us and needs to be seen by others all the time.


"Embarrassed that my #2 man in my family was going out on the streets advocating leaders be lazy, and [...] advocating that leaders shouldn't speak publicly."

Again. When did I tell my leader to stop talking? When did I say that it was a bad thing to have a street presence? For the nth time, all I'm saying it's that it's not mandatory.

Well since you're not understanding what I'm saying or purposing trying to cause trouble (rogue potential within it's self) I'll dumb it down for you a bit here.

When I say propaganda, I mean what you're saying about crew leaders being "lazy" is nothing but propaganda to stir up trouble and that, my friend, is why we even have "mute" leaders to begin with.  It's beneath them.  Since I'm not a CL anymore I feel I can now state my opinion with out fear of my entire city dying because some ignorant comments.

Also, I never said it was LA's responsibility, again this you not caring what we are saying and are just putting words in people's mouths.  I'll dumb this down too for you.  If a rogue crew leader were to set up and assuming that leader isn't already dead, your CL would send a mass mail about it (due diligence) informing you of such.  Again, assuming you know how a family works.  But no, go ahead, shoot at a newly auth'd unnanounced cl and see how far you get.

And if IRC Ave is not a part of this world what so ever, then why do people die for what they say there.  If it were truly not a part of this life I could call a CL on there a bad name and I wont die.  But that just isn't true now is it?  I suspect that you Shepard will also twist these words around as well so there's no point in talking to someone that's rogue material themselves.

In an effort to draw a close to what was rapidly becoming a farce, Kurtz interjected.

I don't believe for a second that Shepard meant leaders should only speak in the streets and not employ the various interpersonal techniques you refer to. I know his words may have said 'I believe the opposite' but its pretty obvious what was meant. At that point I honestly feel you are just being pedantic for the point of continuing this profitless agitation. I believe the point he was trying to make was that in addition to all the normal traits you listed, his belief is that a 'complete' leader should also maintain a strong street presence. Regardless, I honestly think this has run it's course and in an effort to preserve your dignity, I would ask you to stop it now.

Taking a quick nip of brandy from his silver hip flask, he put the container back in his jacket and went on.

In regard to a more general point, I would like to share a point of view.

I think its an extremely sad state of affairs that allows leaders to remain silent and have no street presence. It has become the acceptable norm but I believe it establishes a dangerously corrosive precedent. Silent leaders create silent crews and silent crews make for silent streets. Seeing as the rich strength of the streets in this world have been the very thing that set our world apart from the tedious monotony of so many others I could mention, I'm inclined to fight hard and long to promote street activity in all its forms.

Granted the streets can sometimes be volatile and sometimes confrontational. Arguments like this do occur but that shouldn't discourage anyone from voicing opinions. How boring would our world be if we all agreed with each other? Tedious in the extreme. There are a multitude of ways to be active in our streets and the rich heritage we have should not be dismissed. I know personally I will do all I can to help restore the traditional values of the streets and encourage the colourful vitality they promoted as entertainment, enlightenment and topic debate for all.

Call that living in the past if you like. It is my view that it is the only way to secure our future.

"I know his words may have said 'I believe the opposite' but its pretty obvious what was meant."

That same argument could be applied to certain words he chose to interpret whatever way he wanted.

"At that point I honestly feel you are just being pedantic for the point of continuing this profitless agitation."

Wait, haha... I know he's from your same crew and all, but am I being pedantic? Really? Compared to Shepard? Come on, at least be consistent and nag at us both if you're gonna criticize the way I'm talking when I'm just replying in kind...

As soon as my words are not manipulated any more and I'm not accused, attacked and criticized you will surely see a much nicer side of me. I just enjoy the banter even though I admit it's pointless because it deviates from the main point. But I just can't help to see my words twisted and misconstrued and having to reiterate what my original intention was.


"I think its an extremely sad state of affairs that allows leaders to remain silent and have no street presence. It has become the acceptable norm but I believe it establishes a dangerously corrosive precedent. Silent leaders create silent crews and silent crews make for silent streets."

I agree as long as we know we are only talking about the streets. A "silent crew" makes me think that nobody talks to anybody ever. Which is not true in most cases. MAny crews have a leader who won't come to the streets and the crew is always very active within the HQ walls.

Of course a street presence is desired and valued, but it shouldn't be the only way to measure the success of a crew. Its size, and to some extent its defenses (BGs) after some adjustment period to allow people to suicide from not liking the crew, should be the true measure of a success of a crew.

I meant both of you.

Stop it now.

Really.