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| As The Pig Sees It.Vol.2 | Started by: FlyingPig on Aug 04, '08 16:24 |
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FlyingPig sits out on the step of his apartment in downtown Philadelphia, watching the members of The Java Cartel going from business to business collecting protection money. On another street corner, he sees a group of wealthy men and women standing around doing nothing. He can tell by the cut of their clothing that they are not ordinary goons, but have some sort of important function in some family, in some city. The incredibly handsome Pig begins singing to himself "Conjunction Junction, what's your function? Ba da da dum dee dumm dumm, yeah yeah yeah". So I'm walking through Detroit the other day, right? You wouldn't believe the number of dirty-faced immigrants running around that town right now. It's the most I have seen in ages. It got me thinking about the old days. When I was just a small boy I was running around the streets of Chicago watching the wiseguys doing their work. You did not see any of them hanging out lazily on the street corners like you do today. They were busy earning their keep in the family. If anyone was lazy, it was the Boss. And why shouldn't he be? He's paid his dues, working every position in the family to get to the top. He also put together an efficient and organized structure to handle any problem that comes up. FlyingPig notices Iris rush by in a mad dash on her way to the HQ See, these days it seems like everything falls on the Boss. Anytime someone has a question, they go right to the Boss. Someone giving you a hard time? Right to the Boss. Questions about how to use your gun? Right to the Boss. Questions about your earnings? Right to the Boss. Constipated? Right to the Boss. Just what in the Hell is wrong with you people? Yes, Yes, that is a rhetorical question. I know what is wrong with all of you, and I have told you on many occasions. I guess my point is that I want you to stop and think about what is going on these days, and if it continues, how are we going to deal with the recent influx of immigration? I was talking about the old days earlier. Back then, the Boss could take it easy. Well, easier, at least. And you know what? Having 150 people in a family was not uncommon. I even heard stories about a lady named Maverick who held 400 members in her family. Now how could she do that if each person she employed brought every problem or issue to her? How are we going to deal with all of our family business if we do not begin using the family structures we have in place? Do you want to chit chat, or just shoot the breeze? Go talk to one of your peers. If you are middle management, go talk with someone else in middle management. If you are in a subcrew, go talk with the other people in your subcrew. Do you have a minor issue or question? Go talk with your subcrew leader, or the person immediately above you in the family structure. Having problems with your gun? Go talk to the family Enforcer (also known as hitsquad leader). Wondering about your earnings or how to increase them? Go talk to the family accountant. Need some advice on how to get something out of this life? Go talk to the Consigliere. What I'm getting at, if you have not figured it out, is that we have family structures for a reason. It is to facilitate smooth operation of the family, and as we grow larger, this might become a more important thing to remember. Crew leaders, as someone said recently, should be figureheads. They should be dedicating all of their time to intercrew business and being active in the streets as a representative symbol of the larger embodiment of their family. They are not there to deal with every minor problem and concern of the family. They are not going to become your new best friend. They are BOSSES. There are other people who are SUPPOSED to be handling subdivisions of the family, or managing specialized functions and activities of the family. If these people are not doing that, what are they in the structure for? Wanders off singing to himself...conjunction junction, what's that function? |
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hmm, well I guess I will comment, even though you refused to comment at my speech, which by the way I talked about you. But you just go on being FP and not mingling with us commoner ;) anyway, I, of course, agree with this. I figured I would comment during your speech rather than the speech made earlier by someone with a bunch of inaccurate numbers...talking about "speeches" and what not. it applies to both, and why not give you the benefit of my comments. CL's, Boss, Don what ever you want to call your leader... how much are we SUPPOSE o see these people? They have so much business that they have to deal with..this is why they have Capo bastones and Accountants and Right hands...they are way to important to deal with ever minute problem. How often should a boss come to the streets, some say often, is that an accurate statement...yes I belive it is...should it be? No...i dont think so, yes a CL should be active of course, but how much should the most important person of a family and the biggest target be out in the streets just giving random speeches? Just like Pig usually does I figure I'll play devils advocate and make that little addition. (Pigs may smell funny, but they are the smartest barn yard animal...) |
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| Reply by: SoundWarnings at Aug 04, '08 16:43 | |
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| I mostly agree with this also; however, I do still want to know your best remedy for constipation. I'll hang up, and listen to your answer off the air. | |
| Reply by: Troy_McClure at Aug 05, '08 00:40 | |
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| I'll get back to you on that, Troy. I suspect that you have all the time in the world. | |
| Reply by: FlyingPig at Aug 05, '08 00:46 | |
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| That sounds good sir, my feet will be dangling with anticipation. | |
| Reply by: Troy_McClure at Aug 05, '08 00:48 | |
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| Back home in Ireland, if your were in the IRA, you knew at most 4 other members. You couldn't go to the boss with a problem because you didn't know who the boss was. That was one of the most shocking things about this country and this business. I agree with pig. We're all adults here so why should we keep going to mommy or daddy? | |
| Reply by: Jerry_McDonnell at Aug 05, '08 01:19 | |
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Listening to the airbourne swine, I find myself nodding. "The structure is there for a reason, not just for the Boss (leader, Don or Crew Leader) but it helps those within the crew as you'll get more attention from your Sub Crew Leader, who are responsible for a hand full of people, not a whole city. "I also believe that the Boss and Sub Crew Leaders, RHM, Enforcers etc etc. should be touching base at key dates i.e. Upon promoting someone to Made Man. The Boss can not be expected to know everyone in their family intimately, though Alessia tries wink wink, and as such, they should be able to rely on an accurate report of suitability from their family structure. I'm going to touch ever so briefly on the age old dispute - I do not think everyone should automatically be promoted to Made Man, they are entering the "Family" and as such, should proof themselves to the Family before getting the title. |
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| Reply by: Rhuarc at Aug 05, '08 02:56 | |
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Sandman, a relatively unknown man is passing by when he hears his Right Hand Man starting a pretty deep debate on the street. Intrigued, he sits and listens to the wise mans words. After hearing fellow members of the community pose their thoughts, the Sandman has a few of his own and plucks up the courage to put them out into the open. "Gentlemen, I notice before me men much wiser than my years but my fathers and their forefathers used to tell tales, like Mr FlyingPig mentioned, of families that would dwarf 2 or 3 of the current leaders families when put together. Now i see a correlation here between these facts; "1. Our trade as a Mafioso has hit you might say a recession, we didn't see an influx of new Mafioso's coming over every fall that we were used to. This thank god is on the up. "2. To combat this sudden drop in our fellow country men, the bosses of the world decided to limit the amount of members in ones home. "Thus taking away a few steps of command, or at least appearing to. Tales of my fathers pasts being in a family with 100 members+ are different from those you'd hear today, for example, if he dare bothered the family leader with such trivial questions like, "Can I have a loan?" or "What are the drug prices?" were swiftly dealt with. "But take away 50 or so members and your Boss doesn't appear that far away from you, a low ranking gangster. Also some members of families would make note that they felt like a cash cow and didn't know their boss! I think this is ridiculous and falls to the Sub Crew Leaders and the rest of the family for not doing their job to make them feel welcomed. This is their part of a family not the bosses fault, who has to maintain an image and deal with god knows what politics. "To wrap up this speech, I believe there are many contributing facts to this debate which the likes of Rhuarc and SoundWarrnings have pointed out. But i think people forget that this is WORK also, you are here to earn money for the family not just take an easy ride and just mail the boss asking how his/her day is going. The family you are a part of is an organisation, just like Ford Motor Company, how many employees there see Mr Ford on a regular basis? You have a chain of command use it. To quote a wise man "You have never had it so good", I think sums it up quite nicely." After making a longer than anticipated speech, The Sandman leaves realising the time on his ticket to New York City. |
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| Reply by: Sandman at Aug 05, '08 06:43 | |
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Rubiki stands against a lamp post, listening to the speech, and it's counter arguments. he smiles to himself, hearing the same things he expected; until Sandman comes along. His words perk up Rubiki's ears, as he turns his head to listen closely. When he is finished, he walks over to him and the crowd gathered Sandman, I like the way you think. With a smaller family, it becomes less stress for a leader. But why should that mean that the leader is forced to run away like a chicken without a head? When HQs were 150+ the leader had a structure, and a chain of command. It was followed. Why is it that with less members we also have less structure and less chain of command? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what's happening? You could say leaders are lazy, you could say there aren't enough candidates to trust with important jobs, or you could bitch and moan all day. But in the end, it comes down to each individual not knowing or not understanding the chain of command. I love that phrase so much. The symbolism it depicts. But even in a literal sense, it works perfectly. You could even call it a hierarchy of command (though that doesn't roll off the tongue as easily). There's plenty of people to contact with your problems before you speak to the leader. But now, is this a leader problem; not being clear of who to contact about what issues? Or a personal problem of not using not-so-common sense? |
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| Reply by: Rubiki at Aug 05, '08 13:59 | |
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*Jerry listens intently to what Sandman and Rubiki have to stay but he can no longer remain seated* This isn't just a matter of practicality! We aren't running day care centers here, we're running a business. Just because the families are getting smaller and smaller doesn't mean that the bosses are getting any less powerful which means that they deserve just as much respect. One of the ways we can show that respect is by not troubling them with our petty squabbles or complaints. Peasants don't get to ask the king about a problem they have and there's no reason why it shouldn't be the same way with our thing. |
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| Reply by: Jerry_McDonnell at Aug 05, '08 14:53 | |
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You see running a small family and running a large family theoretically should be the same. As Rubiki said infrastructure will be ever so more important as the family increases in numbers, but if you have the foundations from the start then it should still run smoothly. What i see here is like FlyingPig mentioned everything is going to the boss and not through the correct procedures, its a shame i feel that with the families being smaller that people believe they have a right to become friends with their boss?! In the olden days if you were not a Made Man and you were having conversations with the Boss chances are you were normally going to die.... All i hope for is that as our world grows our homes are not built on sand but built rocks |
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| Reply by: Sandman at Aug 06, '08 06:44 | |
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Noob finishes his cigar and throws it into the bin as he makes his way through the crowd to have his thoughts, opinions, ideas....voiced My first thought would be that half of the people that voiced an opinion are from iris's family, which begs the question how would they know that their leader is getting all this mail from people outside of the structure?... Noob pauses to let the audience think ...Unless they are the one's sending it....but that's me just being controversial....right? I also think that the reason people jump straight to their leader for answers is that they feel no one else will know. Now one reason they would feel this is that they do not interact with other family members, thus assume that they do not know either. If this IS the case then we can not just blame the party at fault, rather the people in the structure who's job it is to address the interaction between the family. On the other hand, there may not be any people from the structure online apart from the "Boss", are you "allowed" to message then now? If members feel they can no longer message their crew leader it makes things very impersonal, and it takes that feeling of being part of a FAMILY away. Isn't that what your meant to be apart of? From what I have heard everyone now saying that members can not message their leaders? To conclude, YES it could be someone jumping the structure and asking their leader if and What's, but it could also be a lower ranked family member trying to feel as though he is apart of the family? Noob heads over to the coffee shops for a drink |
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| Reply by: Noob at Aug 06, '08 15:31 | |
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What kind of family are you talking about, Noob? That warm, cozy feeling of love is the type of family you grow up in, with mom and dad. It's not a mafia family. A mafia family is about loyalty, not love. It is about organization and structure, not treating the lowest associates like they are special and important. This might fly in the face of everything many of you have been led to believe over the years, but I speak the truth. It's just that many have not accepted it because it does not digest as well. As far as the majority of responses coming from Iris' family, well that could be because they are the most active in the streets and it is her RHM who gave the speech. On top of that, we are not speaking in specific terms here. This is not about how much mail Iris receives. We are discussing a CONCEPT in abstract terms. It could apply to any family at any time in history. If someone goes over the head of the person above them, because they feel the leader is the only one who will know...well...what can you say about that? It's stupidity. Why would someone be given a job in the family if they did not know the details of their position? Is someone honestly going to believe that the Enforcer does not understand gun training? That the Accountant does not understand finances? Yeah...moving on. If someone has a question and the Boss is the only person awake at the time, which I find hard to believe and have never seen in a family with more than 20 members, there is still no difference. Is some low level associate going to phone the Don at three in the morning? Come on, man. Use your head. Either the question is important enough to go straight to the Don, no matter who is awake at the time, or the question is not that important, and if that is the case, it can wait. What I'm talking about here is efficiency and realism. It is as simple as this: EVERYONE CANNOT GO TO THE BOSS WITH EACH MINOR CONCERN! End of. Most of the people around here these days know of one way - the Boss with the small HQ of under 100 members. Some of us come from bloodlines that extend back to the times when there could be 200 in an HQ, and back then you FOLLOWED THE STRUCTURE! Depending on the importance of the issue, you went higher or lower in the structure. An attempt on your life went right to the Boss. Other questions of less importance went to a subcrew leader or lower management. That is what a REAL FAMILY is about - organization. Not hugs and kisses. So, Noob, should we just scrap the family structures? You seem to believe that we really only need a Boss. Everyone can go to the Boss for everything, right? That's what makes it a family? Not hardly, my friend. |
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| Reply by: FlyingPig at Aug 06, '08 15:51 | |
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Noob listens intently to FlyingPig as he debates his side of the coin I never said anything about the structure being null or void, thats the one thing that keeps us in touch, lets us know who we are going to get a beating off when we step that one foot out of line. Structures are their for a reason and I would never dispute that fact, but im being more realistic, rather than idealistic. I have been walking the streets on occasions when there have been about 3-5 people in my family here with me. I have spoke to them asking for drug prices and the prices that come back are less than pleasing, so I think to myself, with all my wisdom, I wonder if my leader would mind me messaging her with this question, I come to the conclusion that it's in the name of bettering the family and earning money ultimately for the boss, thus I will mail her and hope for the best. The above is only one cenario of course, and I use that just to illustrate my point. I agree to an extent with what are saying, there is no need to constantly message your boss with mindless chit chat, but at the same time I think that all the family should feel that they CAN talk to the boss. I can appreciate that the family is not a literal one, and thus we are not there to be smothered, but I have served under several leaders, Amber being the most recent where I think every member felt apart of the family, maybe I'm wrong and maybe that was just how I felt? Noob lights up a cigar, then offers them out to the crowd |
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| Reply by: Noob at Aug 06, '08 16:16 | |
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Funny you should mention Amber, a family that one of my forefathers led. Therefore, you should understand that I do believe that families should be tightly knit units where everyone feels they belong there and play an important role. My only difference of opinion is in how this should be achieved. It is not going to be achieved unless each individual in the family utilizes the structure. When everyone relies on the Boss for their every problem and need, it becomes a situation much like a litter of puppies who refuse to stop suckling at the mama's teet. Instead of this paternalistic/maternalistic reliance, the family member should look among their peers. They should mingle with the other family members and form bonds of trust and loyalty from within. They should look to those in the structure who are given their jobs to serve a particular purpose. Let them do their jobs! Of course, everyone should feel like they CAN go to the Boss, but they should use common sense to determine when they SHOULD go to the Boss. If there is someone else who is designated to fullfil a certain function, let that person do their job. A successful family relies on the hard work of several members. It does not all fall on one person. To prevent any further misunderstanding, I do not want anyone to think that the lower echelon of the family should not ever have communications with the Boss. Quite often, a Boss will take the initiative to speak with members of their family to get to know them. This is acceptable and encouraged. The problem arises when each member of the family looks to one person and one person only to answer their questions and solve their problems, when a structure has been implemented specifically to avoid that from happening. |
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| Reply by: FlyingPig at Aug 06, '08 19:21 | |
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An interesting topic, to be sure. The previous speakers have done an exemplary job of breaking down this issue, so I won't repeat the merits of what FlyingPig and others have put forth. But while preserving the structure of the family is certainly important on an organizational level to help the family as a whole run more efficiently, there's another side to the coin. Preserving the structure and relying on men and women other than the Boss also helps mold superior mafiosi. Though the handling of every minor issue certainly helps contribute to the feelings of self-worth and importance of a leader, it also serves to cripple his or her family. When the boss is the only one who ever handles problems, what happens if the boss isn't there? Everyone else would be scurrying around like chickens with their heads cut off, because everyone relies on the boss for all things. In contrast, a leader who has delegated responsibilities to men and women that he or she believes can do the job, is building a strong family that can operate without the presence of its leader. In my experience, the greatest leaders are not those who solve every problem that their family faces, but those who understand that to truly help their family, they shouldn't. |
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| Reply by: Rorschach at Aug 07, '08 00:26 | |
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| Well put, Rorsach. In the Java Cartel, we aren't treated like children and so we don't act like them. It's a good way of doing business. There's no way for a low level guy to get to the top if he can only do things when his Don's around. | |
| Reply by: Jerry_McDonnell at Aug 07, '08 01:17 | |
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