I liked ppp or mugging as we have started to call it when it was first introduced.  But now that the timers are separated, obviously a lot more characters are using the feature.  Fair enough, I dont really mind that.  I require that my family not mug other members of the family, because delaying their flight timer for 3 more hours could be dangerous for us if we are attacked.  That is just common sense.  Would I expect another city to refrain from mugging my members if they chose to pp first?  Absolutely not.  Do you see an issue with the way in which I am handling this? 

I'm not a CL and thus have no say in the rules of any member including myself. Please keep that in mind when reading MY PERSONAL opinion.

While you say that the user who is originally PP'ing is "accepting the risks" I see it differently.

5k does not equal 3 extra hours flight timer and extra time on your PP timer.

If I'm mugged I see zero reason for it. If the money was the issue I'm sure there are better means than violence to resolve it. In my mind the only true reason to mug someone is to grief them because thats what it does.

In my opinion, PPing and mugging are two different things.

If I pickpocket someone, I'm 100% fine with them PICKPOCKETING me back. (As I did it to them, it's only fair)

However, if that person sees me, they do not have a choice to PP me back. They only choice they have is to mug me. This can take a large amount of cash from me, and reset my flight timer.

I don't mug people, and I expect not to be mugged back. Just because i opt to pickpocket someone doesn't mean I am up to mugging. I wish there was a distinguishable difference here.

If I see my attacker, I would like the option to Mug them OR Pickpocket them, and not be forced to Mug them

Someone explained this more clearly to me. I do agree with your point of view.

It is like two consenting adults having sex without any form of birth control and being surprised/mad when they have a child.

Users performing a PP ARE aware of the potential consequences and there ARE ways to avoid those consequences.

You can use protection, Only PP officers or those more than three ranks below you.

Or you can just not PP in the first place.

I do have a problem with being mugged but I avoid putting myself in that situation, generally. Therefor I don't think a user should be punished for mugging but that doesn't mean that I would urge CL's to NOT punish their members for reasons they see fit.

which is a completely different topic in my mind.

An admin changing the game to counter rules set forth by its players. A CL should be able to dictate whatever rules he or she chooses and that shouldn't be dealt with by the admins. The players, if they thought what said CL was doing is unlawful, should take care of that CL.

Though potential coding changes to alter an exciting function in order to better serve the community as a whole? Awesome! I just don't think creating coding change because an admin doesn't agree with a group of players opinions. Though, thats potentially why I don't own my own game. As the rules and agreements states, you have the last say :-) I will always accept your final say but wont hesitate to put forth my two cents.

People cry because they wanted a way to "payback" those they see PPing them.. now people cry because they are given what they wanted.

I look at it like this, if you were in the mafia.. somebody PPs you, would you not give them a beating and take their shit? If your answer is no, you're in the wrong business.

If you don't want to be mugged, don't PP. Simple as that.. I seem to remember a quote "Every action has a reaction" and then one that goes along with it that seems to be a quote for MR itself, "The Action is Yours. The Reaction is Not" ... If you do something, you face the consequences. End of.

You take the risk of PPing someone you accept the risk of taking a beating and loosing your cash & timers being used, don't want that then don't PP.

ADMINS - Please reconsider.

Ever thought that it's your punishments that are stopping leaders from allowing their members to use this feature?

3 hours on flight timer = not worth the risk. Why not try something less harsh? For example... How about just topping the person's time back up to 2 hours flight? Or maybe +1 hour on on whatever flight time they currently have?

If I was bold and someone PPP'd my member and didnt pay back they'd get shot. The PP'er didn't "accept" the consequences to this action at all, they have probably been doing it for months/years, then YOU guys added the feature and FORCED anyone who enjoys using pickpocket to accept this.

On a MUCH larger scale this has similarities of... "You don't have a democracy in your country? Ok we'll war you and make you have one!"

If you PP someone, you are definitely accepting the fact that you may get mugged. If I am PP'd by someone and they haven't asked permission, I will mug them, regardless of what the city rules say. All it takes is a short message "Can I PP you?" to be sent, and I wouldn't mug.

People do have the choice whether to mug or PP back. If you wait 10 minutes, it's not a mug, it's a PP. Wait the 10 minutes after you're PP'd, then PP them. That's your choice.

Before people come out and scream "It doesn't make any sense in an RP sense to ask someone whether you can rob them" consider, from an RP sense, if you were robbed, in 1930's mafia, you'd kick the living daylights out of your assailant.

and how many times did i hear someone say "i wish we had a way to return the favor when we get pickpocketed." now i hear "this is too much, change it"

Squishy has the right of it. Grow a pair, accept the consequences, and quit bitching,

SammyGarcini

Thanks, I didn't know that it was a 10 minute time limit before the system defaults to PPing instead of Mugging. PPing was not around when I played some years ago, so this wasn't obvious. Thanks for the clarification.

Spookinz & Mortuis

Who is crying or bitching? Nobody. It's called having a discussion.

Adamine,

I don't remember ever specifying that I was speaking about anybody who has posted in this said thread. I realize this is a discussion, but thanks for the obviously needed clarification. Anyway. There are frequently people crying and bitching about mugging, if there wasn't we wouldn't be having this discussion now would we?

"5k does not equal 3 extra hours flight timer and extra time on your PP timer. "

It's 5k you have no right to take, and you should be happy that all the mafioso did was pistol-whip your ass for it.

The Ninth Commandment: Money cannot be appropriated if it belongs to others or to other families.

I just want to thow a couple pennies in here. I pickpocket all the time. I NEVER return the money. I expect retaliation. I just realised a bit ago that when I PP a guy in my home town, he has almost no option to return the favor until later. Cause if he does i might complain to the boss about it. Thats the thing, will I or won't I? Do you have the balls to kick my ass after you lose 5 grand or not? My profile leaves you with no idea of what i will do. So you have to know who you are dealing with. The whole thing adds excitement to this thing of ours in my view.

"Now we up the stakes a bit and introduce "mugging" back in, but with a permission system."

By allowing them to choose whether they wanted to mug their assailant or not, you made it into a feature that could be controlled by rules, and the leaders dictate those rules when it comes to their members. In my opinion it was perfectly fine the way it used to be when it was an automated "mugging" if the person happened to fail miserably, they knew the risks with PP'ing (or mugging if we go way back) when they did it then as well, same as now.

You should consider going back to how things were with that feature if it bothers the admins that family members are being punished for their actions, or accept the fact that there will always be new rules when new features that could do some possible harm to a family member are implemented.

PP'ing is also easy to train, and it gets a lot easier when you are able to PP the CA's, so if you went back to the old way then they really only have themselves to blame for sucking when they catch a auto mugging on a player. Adding a random fail/success to that might make things a bit more even/fair considering all the BG's people have these days, at least people would start banking their shit before PP'ing regardless of how many PP's they have successfully committed, and same for the ones who think they are safe from a PP with hundred(s) of bodyguards. That is if the random fail/success isn't already coded in the feature? But from my own PP'ing experience, I've yet to fail any CA or ranked person that didn't have a ridiculous amount of BG's.

However, you might want to consider changing the flight time as well when someone gets mugged, maybe make it so that the higher ranked their victim is compared to the assailants own rank, the higher risk it is for it to be a 3h addition to flight time if they get mugged, and less if they are higher ranked or same rank as their victim? I think that and the amount of money people can take from a PPB is what bothers the leaders the most right now, and which is why rules had to be made.

It doesn't help that the PPB doesn't run on the PP timer either, which means you can keep PP'ing CA's and mugging real players, even if you state that you're not friendly to PP's in your quote, there's nothing stopping you from training it. And that's the only people I've mugged really, people who contradict their own quotes with their actions.. I didn't care about the city rules when that happened, if they can't respect their own quotes they can take a mugging and suck it up.

I agree with ricketts make it auto mugging then people cannot be punished for it as it then is not their faults if it happens.

i have mugged a few people for pickpocketing me quite simply because my quotes say no pickpocketing.  I know even with the varied versions of answers i could use i am never going to see everyone even when saying no pp.  This feature just gives them a warning i remember times past when people were shot just for pickpocketing in the first place on no pp quotes.

I don't see why members should be punished for PPPing, it has been known for my bloodline to kill or have people killed for PPing me so getting a few hours on top of their flight timer & losing their cash instead is lucky for them.

As I see it, this feature was put into the game to be used and I very much like it and make full use of it.

Let's look at it this way, if player X shot at me, would I shoot back? I mean it might kill him! of course you shoot back. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction!

Personally, I do not Pickpocket people. Even though the timers are now seperate I just don't do it. never have, never will. Therefore I cannot be mugged.. If someone pickpockets me and they stealth do they send me 5k back, do they fuck as like. If someone pickpockets me and I see them, I will mug them back. As far as i'm concerned they accepted the risk when they chose to perpetrate a personal attack against myself.

If you don't want to get mugged, don't pickpocket people. Simple solutions people, they're always the best!