Good afternoon, fellow members of the underworld. I come to you today as an envoy of the REAL Black Hand. Not Richard Harrow's family, but the underground organization that has been both the victims of purgings and the perpetrators of the subsequent revenge killings that have happened ever since the deaths of the Godfather Chairman Spicoli, DarwinRoss and DeanWinchester. It is an important message and I hope you take the time to hear it.

Politics can get real messy. Trying to navigate the dark and treacherous waters of this thing of ours is not for the faint of heart. Every decision you make has consequences. A dozen reactions for every action and a dozen more for each of those. It doesn't take much for things to start spiraling out of control and leave this world in an endless cycle of violent retaliation. We rogue because you purge. You purge because we rogue. Suddenly we all find ourselves in a position where everyone's back is against the wall and the only way forward is through the bodies of your rivals. When does it stop? How do you move forward? 

A clean slate. A truce. A white peace. These are political tools that have been used successfully by great leaders of men throughout history. They were wise enough to see that endless violence is senseless violence. The whole point of this thing of ours is to build. We want to build big families. We want to build strong guns. We want to build big bank accounts. We aren't able to do these things when we are too busy roguing/dealing with rogues every second or third Friday. We need a clean slate. Not the type of clean slate that the late DetroitSimon offered either. A real attempt at peace doesn't involve dick swinging. It doesn't require anyone to grovel and ask for forgiveness. Most importantly, it sure as hell doesn't come with threats.

DetroitSimon was on the right track. He saw the writing on the wall and was wise enough to see that something had to be said or done to try and break the cycle of violence. He just had a strange way of holding out the olive branch is all. Plus the timing was horrid. He hit the streets and made his big speech three hours after one of our dear friends was purged in cold blood. Needless to say, many of us were reading his offer with the taste of blood on our lips. Our friend gets purged and then a few hours later you ask for peace? It's the underworld's equivalent of the kid in the schoolyard who quits playing tag the second he gets touched. Uh uh. No sir. Not like that.

The second issue with Detroit Simon's offer of a clean slate was what you had to do to get it. We were told to approach him in good faith and ask for an opportunity. Ask you if we can live? Perhaps in his mind this was a fair and respectful way to move forward. We didn't agree. It sounded like he wanted us to bend the knee and grovel. We can live if we are very sorry and promise Simon we will behave? That's not a truce between two warring parties. That's not both teams swallowing their pride to do what's right. That's offering amnesty for those who surrender. Nope. Sorry. Not interested.

Finally, we get to the core of what was wrong with Simon's offer. He says "There will be victories for both sides but for every loss to the home team, which is mine in this example, there will be a higher and higher price extracted from the away side". Not only does making this statement completely contradict any attempt at burying the hatchet, it's factually incorrect. His team has lost the lives of seven Godfathers and dozens of other high ranked men in the past month alone and has burned through billions of dollars. Our team has lost rogues and proers who knew they would die and we've gotten VERY rich in the process. The best purge kills his team has gotten are the moderates of our group that have been advocating for peace since this all started anyway. There's hardly a win in that. In the end it was a counter productive comment that made everything he said before and after it irrelevant. An offer of peace holds no real value when it's delivered alongside threats. Someone was never taught that they can catch more flies with honey than with bullshit. Not a chance. Try again.

So what do we do about it? Well, we've got two options. You can continue to shoot and purge us and our friends for rouging. In return we will continue to rogue and shoot you and yours for purging us. There will be lots of losses on both sides and at the end of the day we will all be fucking losers regardless of which team has the most points. It leaves us right where we have been the past few months and nothing changes. OR we can finish writing the last little bit of this chapter in this thing of ours and all move forward. A TRUE clean slate. One that doesn't come with threats. One that doesn't come with anyone having to ask for forgiveness and swear they will be good boys. We offer a truce where the only condition and expectation is that we don't kill you and you don't kill us. Nothing more and nothing less. We bury the past in the past and move forward towards better days. 

Who can get this clean slate? Everyone. How do you get it? Easy! Don't fucking shoot us. No asking for forgiveness required. You stop purging and we stop going rogue. Simple enough, ain't it?

Here's to hoping.

I don't have a magic wand, so I can't resurrect my legitimate half-brother to explain exactly what he meant in his speech. However, from my own hearing of what was said at the time, I think this is all either A) a rather tragic misunderstanding or B) a disingenuous attempt at justification for further betrayals. 

The quote you're bandying around was prefaced by the word "if", meaning that if we had carried on acting as we were, there would be a higher and higher price for those actions. Not that it was currently happening at that time, but that it would get increasingly worse if things continued along the same path, as it did with previous regimes where it reaches the point that knowing person X at some point previously led to the death of person Y ad infinitum.

This is known as escalation and where there is a power imbalance, then one suffers more than the other. This is the the reason that the price would be higher for one side than the other; those at the top can shit on those at the bottom from afar in an unfair fight. The only way this entire system works at all is if those at the top choose to allow those at the bottom to progress. That fact remains true regardless of whomever is at the top and whomever is at the bottom. DetroitSimon, as he was at that time, was at the top. He therefore stated that in his example, another word either ignored or missed, he was at the top. In the future, when the Simons are no more and my own hopefully legitimate children are at the bottom, they will exist (or not) at the discretion of those at the top. This wasn't dick swinging, it was the factual reality at the time the statement was made.

He then went on to explain how the slate could be wiped clean, which was to approach him and ask for an opportunity for it to be so. The reason that it should be those at the bottom seeking out and approaching those at the top is because that is how the Mafia works; a hierarchical structure. It shouldn't all be coffeeshop vendettas and generational grudges, it should be Thug acting like Thug and Don acting like Don. This wasn't intended to be "bending the knee", it was just essentially exactly what NickValentine had already done, which was offer to join the family and be loyal to it putting vendettas etc. aside and showing that the person in question could be taken at their word. Did Nick feel he was groveling when he did that? Did NoCap? Only they can answer that, but I suspect not if they are being honest. My third-party understanding is that they asked, a deal was made and that was the end of it. As did others before them who were similarly accommodated and not subjected to any humiliation, mockery or needed to jump through any hoops at all because that has never been a Simons thing. We leave that to others. 

As to the timing, fair point. It likely seemed antagonistic, but if I had to guess, it was probably that final straw which caused him to make the speech in the first place. In his defence, it is hard not to kill someone you were told was specifically only in the mob at all so that they could live long enough to kill you though, regardless of who their friends were.

Anyway, I don't enjoy speaking for the dead, so I'm not going to bother any more. 

SimonTheBastard, multiple of your statements are lies. Your opinions aren't actually fact and the notion that you don't understand the difference worries me. At best this comes across as you deflecting. I could say so much more but I've come here with a genuine effort to resolve issues rather than argue about semantics. 

Going forward you don't kill us for just living our lives and we won't kill any of you. That's it. Nothing more nothing less.

What of the timing of this speech, just days after the rogues? You're calling someone out for making a speech asking for peace soon after purging, in a speech you're asking for peace soon after roguing. You can't make this shit up. 

None of you are sincere. You will all continue shooting each other's bloodlines and claiming the other side is the problem. It's been an issue for a long time and it's part of the reason a growing number of connected bloodlines don't bother putting effort into the next generation or even returning at all. 

Enjoy killing off what's left. 

Writ scoffs. 

How do I become a member of The Black Hand (the REAL one)? I don't kiss ass either and would like people to stop shooting at me.

Come now, you aren't here just with noble intentions of making peace. Sure it would be a nice by-product, but this is a bit on the nose if that was your only goal. This feels a bit targeted, definitely at my lineage (for want of a better term), if not me specifically. Otherwise you would have chosen language which was not so deliberately provocative. It isn't semantics why this a "cleaner slate", that it followed this format and borrows so many phrases that DetroitSimon used. You wanted to have a nice fat gloat while giving me/mine two fingers in the process, which is completely your prerogative, it just seems a bit silly now that you've got your hands on your hips atop your high horse after doing it.

What do I have to deflect? DetroitSimon offered a clean slate in the manner described within his speech. You're not quoting his words in their entirety because that doesn't suit your purpose. You've either misinterpreted them or are deliberately misrepresenting them. I don't conflate my opinion with fact, I just believe my interpretation of what DetroitSimon said, as the best placed living person to do so, to be accurate and therefore the two are entwined in this instance. If you feel I'm lying in multiple places, show where. Don't hold back on my account, say whatever you've got to say with your chest because from where I'm standing "living your lives" means continually betraying families that you are in, in the most egregious ways possible, despite being afforded every opportunity not to. Your cleaner slate is what, actually being a decent member and not a complete shitbag? Shouldn't you be doing that already?

You are right. I am wrong. You are smart. I am dumb. 

Don't purge us and we wont kill you. Its literally that simple. 

A wise man once said sorry seems to be the hardest word.... 

Seeing as we’re apparently wiping slates clean, I should probably wipe one of my own.

I’m HughJanus, descendent of Comrade Antinov. I currently identify as a member of the all-powerful Norella's lot, and apologise for the deception to date. Though, I assume, anyone with half a brain probably knew too. 

Actions speak louder than words here, on both sides. I myself will remain loyal to Norella until such point I am shot in the face.

The main reason I’m admitting any of this is that I can now finally come into the streets and say, openly and without disguise:

Matty is a cunt.

Not because of politics. Not because of bloodlines. Not because somebody purged somebody.

Just independently, on his own merits, Matty is a cunt.

Anyways, I digress. Perhaps my friend had it right. Sorry seems to be the hardest word. Although around here “sorry” isn’t really the problem. The hardest words appear to be “Fair enough mate, we’ll leave it there.”

What about if everyone agreed to not kill your Real Black Hand associates, let them reach an old age and fully train their guns, maybe promote them to the rank of Don, have two of them be hands to a district head - would that slate be clean enough for you?

I completely agree with this part of what you've said, "actions speak louder than words here, on both sides". So let's look at the actions of those involved and see what those actions are saying to us. From "the cleaner slate" side, let's start with LucaChangretta. He asked for the opportunity to be loyal to his family and he was asked to leave all vendettas and coffeeshop bullshit behind. He accepted this and thereafter he was protected by his Godfather and trusted all the way to being bestowed the rank of Don. He subsequently shot his Godfather, presumably in response to the murder of Merikh some days before, a mobster from an entirely different city and family, who happened to be a coffeeshop acquaintance - the exact action he swore off taking. What does this action say to you? 

Then let's look at Dracula and Thomas_Shelby. They were made RHM and LHM for The_Watcher. They were spoken to by their Godfather who gave them "the speech". They confirmed they had no ill intentions and would be loyal to their family. They then betrayed their Don and murdered, amongst others, their Godfather who had trusted them. The reason for this....? I don't know. Sounds from this like it was because DetroitSimon offered them a chance in a manner they viewed as condescending. Perhaps it was for the same coffeeshop murder as Luca back in July? Either way, I'm not sure what role Mint_Royale played in either of those things to find himself dead nor many of the others. On the face of it, all he did was try to do what's best for his family and give people an opportunity not to be full of shit. What do these actions say to you?

To me, they are demonstrative of a desire to have their cake and eat it. They wish to be given an(other) opportunity. They wish to be part of a family. They wish to have all the trappings that come with being a loyal member of a crew just so they can then throw that all away for their coffeeshop allegiance, which trumps everything else and always will, just like Nick said himself.

And the most hilarious part of this is that is predicated on the basis that this whole thing has been some ongoing tit-for-tat, which is completely untrue because the side they targeted have done what, exactly? "Purging", apparently. Except those three people weren't purged. Nor were many others associated with them. They were all given a chance, which they used as a platform to murder people who gave them the very thing they ask for now, the chance to live their lives. Three Dons nearly 100 days old all of them entirely free to live their lives and not be killed. Why didn't they just do that if that's what they wanted?

This is the same pattern. LA chooses to war Detroit for a flimsy reason, Chicago chooses to attack Las Vegas for an invented reason, and Luca, Drac and Tommy choose to attack their own family and their allies for no real reason at all. Every time the aggressors are "the cleaner slate" and they are either willfully misrepresenting things to make themselves appear as victims or are so blinded by their own arrogance that they truly don't see it. 

The message here is simple, I'm told, just leave us alone and we won't shoot you. Only the evidence suggests the real message is, just leave us alone like you already were and then we'll shoot you anyway. Should we should say, 'fair enough mate', crack on? Again? Maybe I'm wrong though. We can all misinterpret things. Please give me your take on what the actions say to you. 

Whilst I appreciate that this is serious, why is nobody talking about Monarch murdering ArmieHammer?  Also, who is Archy and how/why did he survive all of this?

BarclayJames - you look like Ben

They say what Ive already said.

Every decision you make has consequences. A dozen reactions for every action and a dozen more for each of those. It doesn't take much for things to start spiraling out of control and leave this world in an endless cycle of violent retaliation.

Believe whatever you want. I've done my part. Hopefully in 2 years we can all look back at this thread and think of it as the start of something new rather than business as usual. 

I didn't think I'd have to explain the meaning of "if" either, but these are the circumstances we find ourselves in. 

I wasn't even there for the snowball fight, so don't come at me with that. Any claims of stolen valour need to be addressed to the shit upon grave of LittleSi over in New Detroit.

"ever since the deaths of the Godfather Chairman Spicoli, DarwinRoss and DeanWinchester." 

is an outrage also by the way... This all started with the death of The Comrades. 

Look I hear people talking and i know enough to know The Comrades falling was the prime mover, that basic set he whole thing off. So i agree with Hugh.

And ive heard alot about Simons line, but i'm not one for tales.