| Sep 23 - 17:28:12 |
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| Standing Up | Started by: OhCrap on Aug 27, '08 15:25 |
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Dear Doctor, Adding to your very well stated points, -Maximum- IS relevant to this conversation in more than one way (RIP), otherwise, well stated :) |
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| Reply by: Barbarossa at Aug 27, '08 18:18 | |
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Richard, to answer your stupid question, no, it is not ok for you to do that, because YOU are not in a position to make decisions as a representative for your family. YOU are not a Mademan, even. We are not all equals here. Rank plays a part in things. I am the RHM to The Java Cartel, and as such, I am able to make decisions about the actions my family will take. Whether those actions are right or wrong is irrelevant. I do have the authority to make them. ForsakenAngel, I would also appreciate you not lecturing me. It is not your place to do so, either. Alessia, this episode does not involve your family. If you do not want to particularly get involved in it, why are you? You should pick your battles more wisely. This one was unnecessary for you. You will get no benefit from involving yourself in it. |
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| Reply by: FlyingPig at Aug 27, '08 18:31 | |
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| Ok thanks Mr.FlyingPig | |
| Reply by: RichardKuklinski at Aug 27, '08 18:37 | |
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FlyingPig, to clarify, I was voicing an opinion on the topic being discussed, you were that topic so rather than talk about you, I talked to you, it was out of respect for a higher ranking mafioso. I would ask you to heed your own words, you appear to be telling the Don of Chicago that she should pick her battles more wisely, something which comes across as slightly lecturing in nature. |
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| Reply by: Forsaken_Angel at Aug 27, '08 18:41 | |
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| It is good advice, not lecturing. If a leader is going to stick their neck out and criticize someone who represents a powerful family, they should have something to gain from it. If their is nothing to gain from it, what is the point? | |
| Reply by: FlyingPig at Aug 27, '08 18:45 | |
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To quote a great leader: "Opinions are like arseholes, everyone's got one." Alessia, and infact everyone in this world is entitled to voice their opinion, whether it prove beneficial to them or not is irrelevant. |
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| Reply by: Forsaken_Angel at Aug 27, '08 18:49 | |
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| I'd go one further, what's the point in any of this public discussion? Private family business has been outed, I personally consider that bad form, even if alone in these sentiments. This was a matter for the Bosses, by bringing it here, we allow every Tom, Dick and Harry, including myself as Joe Nobody the Gangster, to comment on things way above our heads. | |
| Reply by: Famine at Aug 27, '08 18:51 | |
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Exactly. I do not have the power to take away someone's opinion. Whether or not they voice them is completely their prerogative. That does not mean that everyone has to tolerate someone with a big mouth. Every once in awhile the masses need to be reminded that they are mafiosi. Mobsters do not conduct business according to Robert's Rules of Procedure. Those with power decide what is to be done. The mafia is not about rules. This way of life is not about following a prescribed course of actions. It is about making decisions. You can decide to do whatever you want. Every situation that presents itself offers a choice of decisions to be made. There is nothing forcibly holding anyone back from any certain decision. There will be a reaction to your actions by others. Looking for fairness or a predictable methodology is a futile search. |
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| Reply by: FlyingPig at Aug 27, '08 18:54 | |
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I'll be honest, I wasn't expecting that. When talking about whether a Don's opinion was valid in this conversation, your retort was:
That is a direct quote so as to prevent any misquotes. In my opinion, someone who is a Don and a family head voicing their opinion should be heeded. The very fact that they are where they are in life gives their words more worth than your average mafioso. This is something we have to tolerate, they are a Don, we are not. This does not mean they are a "big mouth" just because someone else disagrees or questions the validity of their opinion. |
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| Reply by: Forsaken_Angel at Aug 27, '08 19:09 | |
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The point is, that despite of her input it wasn't exactly called for and was infact probably not a great help to the topic at hand, especially while there are people who would love to see a bit of entertainment. I appreciate that everyone may have an opinion but the words "lead by example" come to mind and so by inputting her own 2 cents, others like yourself are bound to follow and beat this dead horse even more so. The big mouth comment I can only assume was aimed at sticks and not at Alessia. |
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| Reply by: DocHoliday at Aug 27, '08 19:23 | |
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WRONG, ForsakenAngel. Validity of opinion was NEVER at issue. What was at issue was whether or not an external family leader should be involving herself in it, regardless of validity of opinion. Whether or not the words carry weight is also irrelevant. Is it a wise choice to proffer those weighted words when providence would suggest it is better to mind your own affairs? Your interference is also becoming tiresome. I am not on trial here. This was a dispute between two families, and your family was not a part of that dispute. The dispute has been settled between those two families. Any more you have to say about this is nothing more than trying to stir the shit, and I STRONGLY suggest you do not do that. It is not welcome, and it is not your place to interfere. Yes, that is more advice, and my advice should not be taken lightly. |
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| Reply by: FlyingPig at Aug 27, '08 19:48 | |
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I knew a man from the old country. He always said when asked of the affairs of others; "I'm not interested in that which doesn't concern me." I've always felt that these are words of wisdom and if followed, would do no-one any harm. If we step away from this specific example and the events of today, I fear you are drawing a parallel between respect for title with respect for behaviour. My actions primarily dictate how my peers see me, not my title. My title is won through my actions, how I act after acquiring my title is an entirely different story. If I make a point of entering into a business discussion, the manner and fact of my entry alongside the other personalities in the room will determine the reaction, not my wealth, power or the cut of my suit. These are outside factors that I'm sure the other personalities in the room can consider at their leisure. This discussion is one of family business, on a level I can only dream of reaching. Nonetheless it is inter-family business, with no significant disparity between the main participants. As such, the families determine what is right and wrong, not an abstract protocol. |
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| Reply by: Famine at Aug 27, '08 19:52 | |
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Lol. Sorry, I had to. |
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| Reply by: CarbolicSmokeBall at Sep 20, '08 19:50 | |
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The bottom line here is that a Wise Guy shouldn't be getting snippy with a Consig of any family, especially when he's under suspicion. Least of all, it's even worse to get snippy with an RHM Consig. WG = expendable/non-family member. Not truly trusted, not earned his button. Consig (and RHM) = truly trusted/fully part of the family (and way more than a Made Man, I might add.) So let's just say that it's sad that the WG got killed (somewhat) but what would you expect? Another point I'd like to make is that he tried to mug Premeir's bloodline, a bloodline which hasn't exactly been known for utmost trustworthiness. Not to say anything bad about Prem_is_sexy but his past ancestry hasn't exactly been the most loyal bloodline ever to walk these streets, and that's a known fact. So FlyingPig had plenty of reason to do what he did. One 'so called' WS yelled into the coffee shops doesn't prove anything..... at least not to the man who was pissed off enough to kill someone. |
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| Reply by: Mozart at Sep 22, '08 02:57 | |
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