PoisonousJelly was having an easy day. It was a Saturday night but he couldn't be bothered with his usual antics. Usually he would have been in one of the local speakeasys by now downing shots and flinging hubcaps at passers by. Not today though. Today was all about the detox and the attempt to make his liver less shrivelled and black. Instead PoisonousJelly was heading to his local coffee shop. Taking a seat outside he opens his ears to the streets and everything that is being said around him by those that feel the need. He would smile now and again while sometimes smacking his palm to his forehead at other times. This was a regular occurence and one that he knew other people shared. He notices a familiar face walking by and demands that they sit down next to him. Smiling and nodding as his friend sits he begins to point over to a street corner.

Look at that over there. There stands an idiot with nothing better to do than try to seek some attention from the decent members of our community. He will try his hardest to cause up-roar and upset within our community and has nothing decent to say about it other than some rather comical bull shit. Now look at the crowd he has gathered there. It's absolutely massive. What are they doing there? They're there purely to ridicule the speaker and tell him how much of an idiot he is and how much he will never get anywhere in life.

PJ then points over to another street corner a little further down.

Now look over there. There we have an avid writer of stories and short tales of their lives or of fictional shit that is better suited to Sci-Fi novels. This person has a relatively small but ok sized crowd. People sitting in awe at the story being woven before them and can often be heard shouting things like "Good Story Bro!" or "Can't wait for the next chapter!!!". Now don't get me wrong here... I love a good story. Who doesn't?

Finally PJ points to a less crowded street corner and sighs.

Now look at this fellow. This is where my problem is. This person here has come to the streets with a decent topic on their minds. Something that is very capable of being debated and new opinions being brought forward with in different arguments to the topic at hand. This in my own humble opinion is what I find is lacking around these streets. Many will of course agree, some will not. However they don't do anything about it. Now look at the crowd this person has compared to that of the other two. There is barely anyone there. There are a few passing by who will stop and have a good listen but barely any to stop and actually give input. Two or three, maybe... but the attention it deserves? No chance. That is what annoys me. Now listen to some of the responses they are getting... "I agree." or "This topic has been brought to the streets far to many times in the past." So what? Really now. So what? I find that if a person is bringing a topic to the streets that has been brought up many times before in our entire bloodlines existence then I always assume that this person has a new opinion to add to an old topic. You will then get "So go add that opinion to one of the old conversations". Uhm, no. If the topic had been brought up recently then sure. Add it to that. If the topic hasn't been spoken about in a long time and/or the person who started the conversation is dead then why drag that back through the streets.

So what do you think my friend? Why is it that the trolls of this world get the attention they are craving while those people that put in an effort to get a bit of spark back in to our lives are widely ignored?

Pharaoh happened to be sitting close by and overheard the conversation.

Sir, I do not mean to interrupt, but I must say I agree with you 100%, from what I have seen and heard since I joined "this thing of ours". I think it has to do with human nature. This is true sadly, for the same reason people in ancient times would watch men mutilate and kill each other in gladitorial pits. It may not have been the best thing they could be doing with their time, but it scratched an itch for them, so to speak. I won't take too much of your time, Sir, but thank you for listening.

Pharaoh lit a cigar, and sat back to listen to what others had to say on the matter.

Ares had been sitting at a coffee shop, drinking his coffee and minding his own business when he heard the Godfather of Las Vegas speak on something even he had noticed even though he had been around for only a few days. He cleared his throat and spoke up.

Sir, I do agree with you, quite completely. There is a rather disturbing lack of mentally stimulating discussion here on these Streets. I thought of this as quite normal until I stumbled upon some of my ancestor's journals and found that there used to be a lot more discussions compared to the present day scenario over here.

I thought about it and I believe the reason why these so-called 'trolls' and the story writers get more attention is because to respond to one of their speeches takes minimal effort. If it is a troll, you condemn him and if it is a story, you appreciate it. However, to reply to a decent topic and to further this that discussion requires a larger investment in time and also in the amount of thought to be put into it. This, coupled with the fear of probable ridicule if one's views on the topic are rather..um..I guess I'll go with..uh.... unaccepted in the current scenario could be the main reason for the lack of encouragement for those who 'put in an effort to get a bit of spark back in our lives'.

Just my views, Sir.

Cool speech bro when is the next part?

John grins facetiously and walks off into the sunset.

Philli listens to the godfather scouse make a quite interesting speech about who speaks today, then chuckles as John Galt makes a smart-assy remark.

"well damn mr. Galt, you beat me to it."

Because people enjoy believing they're smarter than the common-folk, and trolls allow people to feel that way. They're able to build their self-esteem by pushing down on someone clearly less smart than they are, and they can do it in any way they wish because the other person obviously deserves the bashing. It's very simple really, and it's answered in your own message to the people; you're upset by them and are feeding them even now in this thread you created to attempt and make people look away from them and onto more important things that you deem more acceptable to this world that we live in.

The only way to ruin the trolls is to get rid of ego, because that's what most of them feed on, and in this thing we live in; ego is one of the most important tools to survive. It will always be this way and the only thing you can really do about it is to personally ignore them yourself and attempt to start a debate group or some such that comes onto the streets and tries to liven it up. It would probably do a lot more good in my own honest opinion. Maybe then others would follow suit? Just coming from someone that has been on both sides of this battlefield multiple times.

Rev put it better than I could have. Thanks for allowing me to be lazy Rev.

With respect to Rev, I don't even think it's that.

Why do we respond to trolls? Because it's easy. Certainly easier than coming up with a well thought out response to a thought-provoking speech that's going on down the corner. Easier even than going to a bar and getting drunk or engaging in discussions there.

Telling off a troll is easy. It takes little or no thought, and gives you a momentary sense of accomplishment. It's not necessarily about ego, although that can come into play as a way of saying "I'm better than you", it's just easy. You get to score a cheap point and walk away without having to put anything else into it.

Oh, I was just trying to pretty it up a bit, but yes there are a lot of people that only do it for the amusement factor to their own selfs. I was more or less talking about those that stick aroud for a few pages to make fun of the troll. Whichever way you slice it, it will always be a problem. Be it ego or just to getting up your post count; these things can never really be fixed.

That's why I still think if you really want to change it, people are going to need to get together and start making a real effort to start up debates and actual stories in the streets. Else it's never going to be changed. Really all you can do is just try your hardest to make the things most imporant to you more prominent, but you'll never destroy the trolls, and I don't think they're that bad in moderation if they aren't the main thing on the streets anyways.

The opinions received so far are what I was hoping for. I realise I forgot to add what my opinion on the matter was and I agree that I think it's just way to easy for people to sprout short idiotic responses to trolls than it is to come up with a well thought out opinion on a subject that matters.

I realise Rev that these things never change over night. Hell the turn over from the streets being filled with debate to that of idiotic trolls was even a long one. However for me, it is taking far to long to transition back to being filled with debate. I for one can't ever really see it returning. The streets these days are seen as a necessity. Be it for ranking past Wise Guy or for keeping the masses happy with an active street speaking Crewleader. Rather than a place where people come because they enjoy being here and they enjoy offering up their personal opinions and debating that of others.

"I agree"

Here's the thing.  As has been pointed out, the Streets are virtually dead.  They've been almost dead for quite some time.  As PJ with acknowledge, for a considerable period of time, the Kuklinski bloodline was the only show in town when it came to creating a stir in a bygone era.  People LOVE rogue actions, intrigue and suspense.  People LOVE it when something happens that bucks the trend and creates a bit of mayhem.  People LOVE it when feuds spill out onto the Streets.

People pretend that they don't, but Kuku's unrivallered number of readers suggest otherwise.

When Kuku takes a break from the Streets, there's no outpouring of creativity, he's not stifling anything, nothing detrimental is being done.  What he's doing is talking on the Streets.  Which, correct me if I'm wrong, is what the Streets are for?

Kuku has long suggested that any death of a Made or above should be explained in the Streets.  CLs, understandably, want to keep family business private, but is that realistic?  Leaving aside IRC Avenue, which is split into many highways and byways and where prominent members of the community are barred for exposing the sins of a few, the Streets are where the action is at.  Not so long ago, a CL killed a -48.  The drama was played out on the Street and everyone watched with bated breath.  That, my friends, was exciting.  My own bloodline was challenged on the Streets on various occasions as a CL - it's tense, people are waiting for the Strike.  Would it happen now?  Who knows.

PJ, you're an influential Godfather.  With Marston gone, possibly the biggest cheese around these parts.  You can put into motion what you want to happen and mould it to your vision.  I think your vision is sound.  CLs shape this thing - lay down the protocols and get things changed.  You want debate on the Streets?  Announce that no-one will get shot for challenging anyone else - if there are limits, state them and let's watch it flow.

"People LOVE rogue actions, intrigue and suspense.  People LOVE it when something happens that bucks the trend and creates a bit of mayhem.  People LOVE it when feuds spill out onto the Streets."

And your brought NONE of these to the table. People do love all the things you mention but all you've done is TALK. Talk, talk, talk. No rogue actions, no mayhem created, no feuds, just words. Granted the streets are not as lively as they could or should be, but seeing your repetitive nonsense isn't that answer? Your blood tried once and got taken down by a rogue (when you were in DT with the Clown) and never tried again. If we all gave up after one try, we'd be failures... which so far, is all you are.

PimpGravy, a thought experiment, if you will.  I can't be bothered pointing out the many interesting killings my blood has been involved in.

Let's say you rogued tonight, you killed another CL who you had a grudge against.  The main CLs took action and killed you.  Before your death you took to the Streets to explain why you killed hte CL.  The people that killed you rubbish your claims and give their opinions.  Ol' Kuku knows what happened and who was involved and takes to the Streets - given the fact that when he talks people listen, who gets the message out?

Who goads CLs about their behaviour because he has nothing to lose?  Who points out when things happen that go against the grain?  Who has friends across the cities?

The Streets can and should be all about voicing opinions and actions arising.  The Streets have been dominated by the Kuklinski line for quite some time.  Sometimes comedy, sometimes serious discussion, sometimes for effect, always with a bigger audience than anyone else.

Would you rather Prem was killed and nothing was said?  Would you rather dozens of Bgs were hit without explanation? 

You're completely wrong though, if YOU took it to the streets I'd definitely be made a laughing stock, because nobody listens to you anymore. There was a point dude where people hung on your every word (for or against you), then there was a time where only the people who associated with you listened to you and then there is now... where nobody really listens to you, hence why you get a lot of 1 line replies. If you had so many friends helping you, Premeir would be dead... deep down, you know that.

The streets are not dominated by Kuklinski... once in a while your blood comes up with something more thought provoking, but the vast majority of it is you stroking your own ego. There are PLENTY of other threads in between the sporadic ramblings your blood pins to these fair streets, just take a look around.

I've just taken a look around and I can't see very much...  that's why this discussion is taking place, no?

You mean you can't see ILOVEHOAGIE's 55 replies poster?

Or Marston's 68 replies?

Or Ladyfighters 59 replies?

Or Manius' 30 replies?

Blind as well I see.

stphnnllII – 96

manicstreetpreacher – 118 (definitely in the top ten)

GomezII – 45

Avram – 53

And a lot further back…

Kuklinski – 46

KuklinskiII – 54 & 27

READ the replies... They're one liners ridiculing you.

*Hands Mr_Kuklinski some anti-delusional medication and skips back to the HQ.*

I don't expect it to work, but a girl has to try