It doesn't really matter. At the heart of it, this suggestion has the intended effect of limiting certain threads to the eyes of people who are, in the eyes of the crewleader, essentially trusted - and it's generally accepted that if you're Made Man or above, you've attained that trust. I really don't see the issue in compromising and at least giving the right hand the ability to view the posts - they can already peer into the crewleader's mail, HQ, give guns, invite people.. seeing this from inside of a crew, does it seriously matter what rank the right hand is, at that point?

I like the idea and I also like the idea that it should be read by the RH and LH irrelevant of rank. I would imagine it would be something quite easy to code as well.

ralph, the system we currently have circumvents the hierarchical structure of the Mafia and by allowing the RHM further responsibilities that his rank doesn't merit, we would just be perpetuating a leader's poor and inappropriate choice of second in command. This shouldn't even be an issue. It is ridiculous that we are even discussing the idea of needing to make allowances for nobody Gangsters in the wrong roles.

If this suggestion is for Made Man+ to have access to more restricted content, I'm all for it as it is reflective of what they have earned. If this suggestion is for Made Man+ and non-made RHM/LHM, I'm not for it in the slightest, which is a shame.

While I agree that it's probably a poor choice to make, I don't quite see this as "perpetuating" a bad choice. It's the crewleader's prerogative to decide who he wants as his second-in-command, and the fact of the matter is that outside of (shrinking) group of people, the difference between wise guy and made man is nothing but a stepping stone on to the ladder of increasingly higher shot and defense boosts that increase rank after rank. The meaning of rank is where the community takes it, but that's beside the point. Regardless of what rank they are to the eyes of someone viewing their profile, they're still second in command to a crewleader's HQ. It's not our job to decide what choices are irrational or ridiculous when it comes to what decisions a crewleader may or may not make in the course of his run. There are now (8) votes that are in favor of letting at least a right-hand man view all threads in a crewleader's HQ, so you may possibly be in the minority on this point of contention.

I still think it should be confined to Made and above, however, I may be inclined to support a vote that is Made Man + RHM. But I just don't think it's that big of a deal to make a hand wait 11 days to view a thread IF it came to that.

I would say it is exactly our job to decide what choices are irrational or ridiculous and to steer to the game on the course of realism wherever possible. If the community decides Made Man is pointless, it is our job to ensure that the game rises above the incorrect thinking of the players.

If the vote falls in favour of letting the right-hand man viewing the threads, that's fine, that is why we have a vote and not just one individual making the decisions. I'll be sad to see that happen as it is enabling a wrong decision by the leader in the first place, but it will be what it is.

Part of the reason for this suggestion was to add more meaning to the rank of made man, if you are able to hand pick who gets to see these threads it completely negates that.

Reply by: Sandor at Sep 18, '12 07:56

I don't understand why some of you are vehemently against it being Made Man and up only. Especially some of you who think rank has lost it's meaning. The hands will be able to eventually see the forum when they rank up. Maybe this will be a bigger incentive for them to rank quicker than they might normally rank. Also, as I've stated several times previously, it's not as if the CL can't or won't discuss with them what is in the forum. It's really not going to be THAT big of a deal if they can't view it for a week and a half.

Are we ready to vote on this or would people like more time to make further comments?

Cassi, with the exception of some, most people don't make their minimum times. As I've stated in the other thread, I don't necessarily equate rank with authority when it comes to the other two most powerful (structurally) members of a crew. But, I've already stated my piece on that matter, and there's no need to argue that further.

I wouldn't mind casting my vote, though I would ask that there be a separate vote on whether or not a RH/LHM should view these threads as well, as there are quite a few of us in favour of that option as well.

We will do an initial vote with the idea in its current form. If that passes, there will be no second vote. If it fails, we will do a second vote for the idea without RHM/LHM view regardless of rank.

{There are arguably enough votes that favour the idea of allowing a LH/RH to view threads irrespective of rank, so I'm not quite sure why you're inhibiting that from being judged on its own merits? You're providing a second vote for delay-resservations on the death knell feature, so I can't really see the issue, here.}

{I'm not inhibiting anything. I'm saying that we'll do an initial vote on the idea as it is, which is allowing RHM/LHM & Made Man+ to view the threads irrespective of rank. As I think that will pass anyway, why then would we do a second vote if it passes? If people don't want the RHM/LHM to view, they will say no to the first vote. Then, if that first vote fails, a second vote will be called with the modification of RHM/LHM not being able to view regarding of rank. That seems to be the best way to me, I'm not sure how it inhibits anything either.}

{I apologize, Grin - I read and responded to your post in reverse. The perils of posting at 6 in the morning.}

Voting is now open for this suggestion.

As the original vote passed there is no need for a second vote.