I would like for us to consider bringing Mugging back in some capacity.

The problem I guess is leaders preventing people from training their mugging skills and then the skill will die out. However, to combat this, I was thinking that we could remove the personals screen for CAs and that way if people mugged CAs there would be no way of preventing people from doing so and they could train up on them without harming anyone.

I think a Mug should use the attack timer, the same as a wack, as it is an attack and then people would have to make a conscious decision to work on their mugging skills rather than their wacking skill.

I think it could bring an interesting dynamic back into the game in terms of people trying to ground targets for several hours in the same city, which could be a very good tactic in wars or dealing with rogues. They would also be able to steal more than the 5k that a PP gets and they could get whatever someone has on hand depending on their ability to mug.

What are people's thoughts on this? I know that people may still try to ban training on CAs but if there was no mugging w/s or CAs personal screen, they wouldn't be able to do that and a dedicated mugger could build up their skill level instead of wacking.

When the timers were split I lost some desire to PP as it meant everyone and anyone could do both shooting and picking pockets without any sacrifice to either skill set. It devalued PPing for me a little. I think your suggestion would bring with it a new desire for people to hone a skill set that not everyone will be perfecting.

Im intrigued by this idea, I like it. Though I agree there is a danger of certain rules preventing its use, but I think such potentials are of no concern to the idea itself, id like to see people discuss the idea and any pros or cons, rather than think of the stance that leaders may take.

Anyone got an opinion on this?

Mugging without being PP'd first will just be banned by the leaders and not used other than war times or times of rogues where people have nothing to loose. Also being able to mug CA's will make training the skill pointless as it would be too easily trained.

Did you read the suggestion?

This would propose mug comes back onto the attack timer. You would have to choose to train your mugging skill and then choose to use it in times of war or rogues. Currently it can only be used in retaliation in a string of worthless circumstances.

Yes I read the full suggestion and my statement still stands, even with it on the attack timer it would still be instantly banned by leaders. Do you have any idea how much arguing there is about PP & PP Payback, this would be 10 times worse.

It would be banned on real people, and that's fine. You can choose to train it on CAs instead making the ban obsolete, thus making the arguing about PP & PP Payback irrelevant in this instance as mugging would be banned on real people.

If people have to forego a kill to train their mug skill, the vast majority of people will not bother to train that skill. Look at how few people bothered to train PP skill to a worthwhile level before the timers were split for an example of this.

Having a trained mugger in wars or when chasing rogues could be an extremely useful tool at the disposal of a family or for just a huge dickhead looking to rob some money off people before they die. All these options are an improvement on the current system as they create a new/old dynamic that no longer exists.

Some current CA owners have this stance that if you PP their CA, they're welcome to PP you, regardless of your PP stance. The same thing would occur with the mugging. Even if it where banned, CA owners would just check their personals, see their CA was mugged, then ego trip about it, despite the fact that you get nothing in terms of cash from a CA. That being said, I'm all for being able to mug right off the bat, instead of waiting for someone to PP me.

I was thinking that we could remove the personals screen for CAs.

I missed that tibit at the bottom, I should read a bit better next time. Good suggestion

If you remove the personal's from CA's you would also have to remove the ability of them catching witness statements.

As for the whole "PP my CA I PP you" argument that will only get those people mugged or shot.

That was a contributory factor in suggesting the removal of their personals.

Are you now coming around to this?

Anyone?

I really like the idea. It's a shame people are dismissing it on the grounds of 'the current leaders won't like it/allow it to happen'. Surely that can't be a legitimate reason for not including a good change into the game?

That being said, another alternative is to have mug as a definitive skill which shares the wack timer - as does the PP skill. Mug can then be trained either by doing muggings or picking pockets (both are the act of stealing off 'live' players). Obviously it would take longer to train by pp than by mug, but still an option surely?

Another consideration is that a way of training your mug would be when the Durden spawn comes rolling around, no?

Noah I'm sure your well aware that mug was removed from the game for that very same reason, it's not a case of "the current leaders won't allow it" it's more no leader's past, current or future would allow it outside of war and even then a pro wack would be more useful than a mug in 9/10 situations.

Although I thought at one point Squishy was looking at re-introducing mug with the ability to take on hand drugs & gun.

How would leader's past, current or future disallow something they have no means of controlling?

Mugging would be a trainable skill. Leaders would probably ban it as it is harmful. People can still choose to train it on CAs which lose the rather pointless personals screen. Those people who choose to put the work in gain a valuable skill. Those people who do not, do not.

I don't really understand your objection to this anymore?

I don't really like the idea of getting rid of CA's personals. And I don't really see the point in introducing a feature that is more than likely to get banned anyways. Maybe if the suggestion were... I want to be able to mug CA's, then it might garner a little more attention or support. But wanting to push through an idea that you are pretty sure is going to get banned, seems like a waste of time for the PC and the coders.

How would leader's past, current or future disallow something they have no means of controlling?

By shooting those that ignore the rules that would be set banning mugging. Also mugging CA's would probably be banned to as you could be preventing them from flying which would make a difference when it comes time to killing them.

CA's personal's are not pointless but work as another set of eye's to inform you attempted attacks.

Perhaps I've explained this poorly. I'll try again.

I would like for us to consider bringing Mugging back in some capacity, because it has the potential to be a very useful tool in the right hands.

The primary objection would be that it will be banned on active players. To combat this I'm suggesting that CAs and now that Noah has suggested it, Durdens, can be used as targets to train this mugging skill. This would circumvent any ban on active players and before this is dismissed on that basis alone, keep in mind that wacking of active players is also and has always been permanently banned. The potential ban alone shouldn't therefore constitute justification for ignoring the entire feature, as there are NPC characters available upon whom this skill could be trained, just as with wacking.

If we wished to maintain the CAs personal screen (which I personally dislike as I don't think you should have another set of eyes to inform you of anything) then perhaps the odds of stealthing a CA could be raised, whilst still carrying an element of risk. Should it be banned, it would then be at the discretion of attacker to choose whether or not to mug as it carries the risk of being caught. Those who want to train their mug can then do so.

I am suggesting the re-introduction of a feature that previously existed and could function within the current climate. Given that the code existed/must exist in some form, I can't imagine it would take too much time to code, but I will be corrected on that. Given that the PC's role is to discuss suggestions and formulate them into something workable, I don't believe asking them to do that on this suggestion will be a waste of their time.