For supporters and detractors from the original tapering suggestion that is now in the Player Commission, I thought I'd toss around my own idea that I think would bridge the gap between the two groups, in the form of expanding our shooting range to be used by all accounts - with tapering still included (Someone with a several hundred kill gun would gain a paltry amount of experience for 6 hours of flight restriction), but with the retaining of wackback for shots made on accounts.

This achieves a couple of things - it allows the ability of bridging the gap between the two extremes in a risk free (and, unintentionally, anonymous) way, at the expense of flight restriction and limitations on how many you can do in a day, and it removes (actual) cash out of the game, especially for the higher ranks. It allows you the opportunity to choose between risking death by a quicker and more convenient way to wack, or a slower, assured way that wouldn't put your account at risk.


To be clear, as I mentioned earlier this wouldn't be a feature that could be utilized by the larger guns in a very efficient manner. If tapering was also implemented, the very top guns in the game would receive merely a fraction of a kill in exchange for several hours of flight and wack delay than they would be by killing accounts.


Finally, for those who are worried about the ramifications of using the shooting range if a crew suddenly finds themselves in a war, there would be an option implemented that would allow you to cancel your range visit. You will get neither a refund nor a stat increase, but your flight (and aggression) timer is reset if you have been using the range for over two hours.


Thoughts?

How would flight restriction limit me with a day worth of shoot? Ok, I take one shot its adds a hour for every shot I'm guessing. That just would make more players want to sit in the largest spawn site. It would lower my chances getting IA but it could be my lucky day and I get them all. I don't think flights need to be touched because you will have that handful of hitters that will sit out in hour cities with fewer IAs giving them more of chance to get those while everyone else is trying for the others. After a while people will get smart and just mimic the other player that is getting the IAs which ultimately won't lower gun..It could possibly making building them a bit harder but you will have a few that won't be affect by this much.

You said bigger guns would get a small fraction of a kill. How do you define a big gun though..Are you suggesting that as time goes on and after you reach X(being the number that your +1 gets reduced to .75 etc etc) If you did add this then I would like a reduce flight time and allowing the 1hr timer for attack to remain untouched.

I don't know how I feel about you allowing someone to cancel 'Shooting Range' I know there are times when war just happens but you shouldn't be allowed just to cancel it and have their timers reset.  Thats being greedy tbh.. I like the fact you gave them no stats increase and no refund but allowing them to re-open their timers is silly. I think this can possibly be added but with the game it is right now on things it can wait for a while. 

I meant in terms of flight restriction due to using a range as opposed to the traditional way of hunting inactive accounts. The contrast I'm trying to paint is that there is one path that will allow you to train conventionally with the risk of death still intact, as opposed to a slower, but safer alternative by using the range - which delays your flight and delays your aggression timer. Tapering would be implemented as it would be in the current suggestion's form, by affecting a very small percentage of the user base.


As for canceling the range, if the suggestion is implemented, I think it'd be a necessary evil with the vastly increased usage of the range. Perhaps it could be cancelled for a credit amount based on how much time is left, (like jail) but if a war breaks out and half of a city is asleep using the training range - you can see how costly it could end up being.

This suggestion has merit and deserves discussion. To maintain skill level with a gun, you have to shoot. Utilizing the range more is the best way to do it. Its a feature in the game that rarely is used, but serves a very worthwhile purpose.

Would something like this be considered by the coders?

Death WB is now gone so the idea of safe/unsafe ways to train is now gone. I don't think range should be allowed after maxing as there is only so much that can be gained from a shooting range in real life compared to actually killing a person.

Also allowing someone to train say a 300 kill gun without a single witness statement going out is just wrong & the pricing structure of the range would have to be altered as ranging would be cheaper than buying a credit to shoot an MIA as well as droves of people not wanted to get made just so they can range at a cheaper rate while still boosting their drug units so they are earning as much as someone who is made+.

I disagree with the idea that a shooting range would only get you so far, (as law enforcement is frequently encouraged to hone their gun by going to a range if only a few times a year) but I'll table that and take up issue with the WS perspective.


You haven't much elaborated on why someone with a 300 kill gun (without ever sending out a WS) is wrong. That route is already available to people who have mastered the art of BG wacking on Tyler crews. But, if we're using real-life logic to dispel the realism of consistently using the range, it is inherently more realistic in the real world to not know who the enemies are on the other side of the fence. War planners will still have a pretty good idea of who to remove first, just by checking their protection level, and if anything, this would make the game more exciting from a war aspect as we simply wouldn't know if there are larger guns lurking behind an opponent's family.


Also, a 300 kill gun made solely on ranges would take over 3 (and more realistically, 4 or 5) months to achieve if the account does nothing but range on the dot, every dot, in 8 hours. Time-wise, I'd imagine it offers the same speed as doing MIAs cumulatively, though.

I see where Flash is coming from and I see where you are coming from Solastalgia.

I don't think you should allowed to do more ranges after you maxed out for the reason of what Flash-Fire said on "allowing someone to train to say a 300 kill gun without a single WS"

Yes, RP stand point active law enforcement do actively visit a shooting range to hone such skill but from the shooter side I'm doing that by shooting IAs,tylers,etc... I don't think we need another way to actively build up guns because you say it takes over 3 months to make 300 but really I would take 2.5 months for someone to reach without trying to much with the resources we have now. If we allowed ranges with a varibles that could alter wackbacks such as the big one death then sure. Lets see each shot is worth 0.05% increase onto a wackback and it gets decreased by the 50/50 chance and to lower it even more to visit the range then this could easily remove cash flow from the game. Credits shouldn't go up nor down. I mean there is multiple ways I see we could alter the fear of death by a malfunction of a gun. The issue is that I can see is..you have people that throw money into the game to achieve these things then say "this shouldn't happen" well it should because you its a risk. Removing death from this side of the game just completely kills the fear of shooting. I don't agree that someone that is just starting out should die instantly but from RP side it would be a common thing. The player is young and not being a master at the art, so he should run into some problems like  jail,gun loss and even death. It sucks but its understandable and reasonable. 

I think we have to understand that there's going to be some form of risk-free training in this game seen by the apparent disabling of wackback - that's a fact, as the coders are apparently not budging until a solution allows wackback to be taken out of one of the forms of training your gun. The debate is what we're going to use for the vehicle to train these inevitable risk-free guns, which is why I think the range is a suitable suggestion.



It's a lot like investments - you'll have the offer to invest in something with a quick, high-reward, but potentially risky investment that can cost you, or you can choose a slower, lower-yielding and safer investment - like a government bond. They don't pay out much, but you'll get a return on them, and the risk is next to zero.


As for the stealth aspect, the constant information gathering of various HSL's has made warfare pretty predictable in terms of what's going to happen when you target certain people. They'll catch witness statements, they'll put them in a file, and they'll have a name on the chopping block for when it's time to fight. Throwing a wrench in that option by allowing people to train anonymously would inevitably bring a flare to the game in terms of war planning and it would once again throw a bit of unpredictability in the game at a time when wars have slowly, over time, changed in landscape to be an almost laughably predictable affair.

Interesting view I must say..I don't know how I feel about somethings but I do understand your views. If we added the ranger being a risk-free solution do we get the full +1 or something else? I mean after all its risk-free so how do suggest this one?

It could be tinkered with by the PC, but the basic idea is that you'd get +1. For those who would be experiencing tapering under the measure, they would receive what they normally would have gotten under a tapered kill. (Tapered gun A gets .10 from a kill - if he decides to range, he'll now also get .10 from a range, now)

I like this idea, it needs to be worked out in regards to pricing, how many ranges allowed in a day post-max and possible Witness Statements, Y saw X walk into the shooting range, but it is workable I see nothing wrong with this idea as a middle ground between keeping tapering and WB death.

New scenario: You have tapered kills so you can go out and get kills but risk WB death for the equivalent of .4 of a kill (or whatever it is). Alternatively you can range and get the same .4 of a kill and avoid WB death, however, the return will be slower than actively shooting.

This suggestion has the benefit of slowing down the building of guns, the prevention of people running off building nukes and still keeps the element of choice. I can do this and be safe or I can continue to shoot and risk WBing.

I don't see the need for this to have W/S and I see no reason not to go with this. I'd just like to know discussing it won't be in vain.

I wouldn't mind seeing something like this be put into play after thinking things over...

I think somethings need to be a little more iron'd out but its start in the right directions