I don't see anything wrong with ranks. The godfather crew is more like the dominant crew in the city. The other crews don't have to necessarily be connected at all, so there's no reason they'd fall into one rank line.

I have always thought it was weird that you can be a hand before being made though.

Ccoffee shop friends. ouch But yes its like that.  If someone was to offer a hand job to me I would pretty much tell them they had no concept of what they were asking and didn't deserve to be in the position they themselves were in. Responsibility and trust are inseperable.

Ultimately both positions could simply be removed and so leaders could create their own "authority council" within the crew.

The topic of whether a hand should be made or not has been brought up before...and I'm not even gonna argue that one.

But with the new district systems coming...think about a bigger picture. Here is the thing. For example...

In a real mob the GF of NY who may reign supreme over Manhattan, Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island the 5 districts/Burroughs of NY. That single GF must control most of that NY territory to be considered its GF. Now in a perfect world he would control all the districts/Burroughs...each one controlled by a CL. How the structure really is at this point could be, GF has a UB who controls the rest of the city heads. These city heads are the CL's running crews out of the other districts. Now each one of these CL's in the mob would be considered a Capo. But I'm not going into that either...not gonna try to redo the ranks already built in.

But for the sake of argument, these CL's in the rest of the districts work for the UB who works for the GF. Now these CL's could also have captains...other Cl's that they control.

If it works like that then you have a sys similar to the mob. Where the loyalty and muscle of the GF comes from forming a consortium of families across a state/territory.



But now if we had 5 GF's in NY...that whole structure goes out the window. That would mean that every district would have its own GF...and in order for a GF to reign supreme over all the districts he would practically have to ensure no other mobster makes GF in another district.

And I say 5 GF's because this game allows us to rank accordingly...in the real mob those 5 GF's would be considered CL's at war till one rises to the rank of GF!

Tither I understand your idea about that but it simply can't be done with our player base.

I mean think about it, if you've got 5 godfathers in new york, and they've all got 1 underboss and then there are 3 captains that's 9 crews of which you would have to give out 18 hand jobs.

so that's 9 CL's and 18 Hand jobs per City, if we keep 6 cities that's about 54 CL's and about 108 hand jobs total.

Can the player base really support that type of upper structure? That's an inordinate amount of CL positions and hand jobs I think. (more than a third of the userbase?)

In all seriousness, I know you guys think it's funny {cause I damn well meant it to be} but I think the trust needed for a right or left hand man is being seriously underestimated. You are leaving not only your entire account in the hands of these people - but your entire crew as well.

I mean realistically it would be like just giving someone your account and saying 'okay take care of this while i'm gone' (even though it's far more work than that normally) so when you're wondering why somebody has had the same right hand for the last 10 years you may want to think to yourself.. Who would I trust with my entire account? And the accounts of all the people in my crew? And my reputation on this game?

Not ONLY that. But it's no secret that a Right Hand caught with serious rule violations can cause his CL and at times entire crew to be admin wacked. Given all that valuable information I really hope that you can all come to grips with the fact that giving a hand job to a stranger is the ultimate no-no.

NOW, seeing how that wasn't really even the base of this idea. We really really need to clean up and sharpen up the official structure bit. Of course you can role-play that piece but LaMotta is right. We have these huge intricate criminal networks that technically span the entire country with hundreds of corrupt officials in their pockets - but there's no way to assign official underbosses or anything like that! This will be much needed for districts as well I really hope to see the managment abilities of Godfathers go way way up. (assigning CL's to districts, managment of city finances and or fronts etc etc etc)

I forgot one thing! What would you think if hands were auto-ranked to made man after 24 hours??

That would settle the role-play bit.

How would that work? They would have the same units they would as a young thug, but it would say made man and they would be getting the respect a made man should get which seeing as they are right hand men they should get anyway.

And of course they wouldn't be able to get past made man until they reached their normal level and time requirements.

{as for gun stat, RH's already get a bit of a boost and are obviously going to most likely min-time made man so I don't see any reason that would be a problem}

Im sorry you got the wrong message Whitey...

I wasn't proposing having 5 GF's in one city. I'm a proponent of having 5 Cl's controlling their districts under ONE city GF.

I was just simply contrasting the two systems. And your argument just further supports that view even more.

I just read through all this thread as the ranking system is a part that has lost it's position in the game.

But apart from that. About the RHM position, Whitey has hit the nail on the head about a solution. Auto promotion to Made, units stay the same (what ever their current unit count is) and can't rank further until they match Made and above.

Brilliant idea.

The one thing that I keep seeing people arguing is that you would know that child's bloodline and therefore already be aware that you can trust them. But let's look at it from an RP/real life point of view.

Little Johnny's Father was a RHM with the Corleone crime family in NY. Little Johnny's dad is murdered for whatever reason. Little Johnny decides he wants to follow in daddy's footsteps and joins the mob as well. He's starts as a wise guy, snatching purses from old ladies, and then the Bossman says "hey I knew and trusted your dad...wanna be my RHM?" But wait a minute! What about poor Tom Hagen? He's been busting his ass for the family for years! He's a made guy, been earning and selling drugs and running rings of whores for the family and he gets passed over for some fresh off the boat kid? You can understand why Tom would be upset. It just doesn't make sense. I don't know how many of you have read Mario Putzo's work(who incidenteally came up with GF as a mafia rank...genius I know) but one of the grievances many footsoldiers had about Michael at one point when he faced a mutiny, was that he never worked as a soldier commiting crimes for the family and what not. He just came in murdered a cop and took over the family business.

My point is, you shouldn't have a wiseguy as a RHM even if he's the only guy you can fully trust at that position....."wait but the family will be vulnerable" No not really. I mean in reality, I'm sure that there is someone in your family you can trust to look after things for a short amount without worrying they'll fuck your enitre shit up.


Also just pointing out that the rank/position of GF isn't a real thing. Someone already posted this but the way it works is that there is a Don of a family. The Don has an Underboss who has Capos under him. The Capo has soldiers who work for him in his own crew. Obviously the Capos and up are already Made. On these shores we'd need a RHM just because when you go to sleep you need someone awake and watching over your stuff. The Capo can have a right hand if they choose but in that case it wouldn't matter if you're made or not because everyone in the Capo's crew would be a regular soldier (until they've made their bones and given a chance to run their own thing...in reality the books were rarely opened to make some one into a Made Man). You can have a city with 5 different dons but Don A is the strongest. They might follow his "suggestions" because he'd be able to wipe em out but is he really their "boss" I think that if something like this were implemented in the new district system....this game would get much more lively really quickly.

I do agree mostly with the idea of hands having to be a specific rank (and not that a new player can just be handed a made man rank). Granted I would probably make a lousy leader, I will admit this. I am not aiming to be one, and I agree it is not the best position for me.

But I have no doubht others that want to try such positions can not because the position is filled already. Then when the holder of that position dies, it is filled by their descendent (who just came out of nowhere so to speak). What about that guy who has worked hard, and never been given the opportunity? So you say - I need someone I can trust. If you can not trust this man how did he ever rank above made man? You might say but I do not want someone with no experience. Then why have you not trained him? This is the mafia, did you really think the last RHM would live forever given the people he is stealing from?

Most "new fuckers fresh off the boat" are the children of the former hands. Are we really saying that in a real life mob those children would not to be known to the deceased's former family? That's kind of an unbelievable theory to me.

I would agree they are known, but they are citizens, they most likely lack the knowledge and the experience. Their fathers never trained them because if they did they would come into the game as Made Men or Capo rank players surely?

I have seen Crew leaders with RHM/LHM that have dropped the players right after a war so a former crew leader can be placed back at the top with power again. How is this the case? I really trust you and you have served me well as my RHM, but the son of a well known gangster in a rival city we just wiped out is in town so we want him instead.

I think if you were to limit hand positions to made and up only, people would just not have a hand until the people they actually wanted in the spot ranked up. 

What is wrong with that? They have no hand until someone proves their worth, and not by just saying I am a decendent of a higher up. If they chose that no one is trustworthy then that it their choice.
 
I see the argument here that others are wanting chances, but sadly PC has several players who are high up, and probably want to get that RHM position should they die. So I would not count on it passing. Are the current RHM/LHM the best for the job? Maybe but then again if others are not given the chance as has been discussed how can you expect them to improve?

lol Am I only one who is sick enough to find phrase "hand job" funny :)

Anyway Michael is right about reality in ranking , but then would be far less ranks and I think its better to stay this way, but still I agree with him Consigliere shouldnt be name of rank it should be the one which fill position in family but also I was thinking with those districts done it would be cool that each city could have its Capo di tutti capi ( I mean as new rank ), so if there is just 1 Godfather in city or if other Godfathers of that city accept him as CDTC, he became something like leader of whole city, thats in case that city wants to have just 1 leader and to be more autocratic and if city leaders deal to be democratic they just leave it as it is and have few Godfathers running completly indepent their districts so its city leaders choice... I thought it would be cool...

I hate reading but since we have levels now cant rank just be superficial? Only given to a user by their CL's to signify their rank within the family? I thought that was the plan when levels came around. if not then what in the hell is the point of levels?

I'm going to throw my ideas on the topic in here.

I propose a number of changes that would result in an organised, fair family structure. During these times of peace, thereis clearly an abundance of ranked characters. I have recently returned to the game and the sight of so many ranks can easiy give the impression of "Don't bother trying" Being as I have played before, I know this is a result of on going peace. To a new comer, it might seem a little pointless as to try.

My proposed Structure for ranks and a characters ability is as follows

1. Rank has no meaning, it is superficial as mentioned previously. It indicates a persons position in the family, which will be covered by point number 2. 

2. A family is restricted on a number of ranks. This would mean a Crew Leader has a number of slots he can fill, and those slots come with responsibility. Also they would give the person empowered a feeling of achievement and pride, unlike now where Rank is just another bit of the profile. 

3. To compensate for Point 2's restriction, rank should not restrict a characters ability to progress. As it currently stands, a Wise Guy begins gaining Felonies and later, Organised Crime etc. I propose that since Rank has no meaning, it does not restrict a persons ability to be come a feared, dependable member of the family be they a Wise Guy or Don. They can earn all the perks of being a high rank on the current system, however they do not need a "Rank Up" to achieve them. A person can become a renouned somebody and stay a Wise Guy for most his life.

4. A persons Level is private to them. This goes in keeping with point 3, in that a persons ability and progress should be their own secret, and a rank be an indication of their position in the family.

5. Maintain required number of days to attain a certain rank. Nobody likes to see two day olds being given the rank of Consig, this allows for other members of the family to take positions higher up in the structure.

6. The process from Thug > Wise Guy remains the same. 

To explain point 2 in further detail, a family structure that is used across the board must be agreed on. Please see the below example, where "=" would mean "For every 1..." Unless otherwise stated:

1 District = 2 Families

1 Family = 1 Godfather

1 Godfather = 1 Consigliere/2 Dons

2 Dons = 3/5 Capos

1 Capos = 5/6 Made Men

Made Men = Remainder of Crew: Associates (Wise Guy and below)

And now an example of this all.

Billy joins MafiaReturns. Billy is recruited by a Made Man, who has the ability to recruit new members to the family via the Associate function. Billy ranks up to Wise Guy via the standard method. When he reaches Wise Guy, he then continues to earn money, increase his personal & Private level + the number of units he cane carry, obtain the ability for new Felonies and Organised Crimes etc. When a Made Man is capped or promoted in the family, Billy is recognised as being worth induction into the ranks of the Soldato's and is Made. He reports directly to a Capo, and assists in the recruitment process by taking on his own associates. 

Again the time comes that a promotion is available, and since he is not restricted by rank, he is already a hardened, well equipt member of the family who has maturity and experience behind him. He is promoted to Capo and now assists in the control of the Made Men. His former Associates are re allocated to a new Made Man under him, if not promoted themselves. Billy now reports directly to one of the two Dons (RHM/LHM). The time then once again come where a position is open. His fellow Capo, Timmy, has leadership skills and a keen grasp on the concept of War, and is made a Don, reporting directly to the Godfather. Billy however, has been noted as being wise and helpful, assisting the younger members of the family and a general source of council. He is promoted to Consigliere and reports to the Godfather, assisting the Don's and Capo's as required. 

Hopefully that makes sense, any opinions?

I doubt any change will take place, mainly due to nostalgic players.