actions of a rogue why are they just killing for fun , they get caught and need to make new account why do all this maddness

I've often thought that money should only go so far. A rogue from a family kills two of your wise guys? He has to offer up two of his.  Blood in, blood out.  Make things interesting.

Thoughts?

The actions of a rogue member risk the business everyone is involved in.. You can be damn sure a city or leader has enough rogues and those on top will think twice about who they are letting decide who ranks or not. Of course this is a thin line, but it is reality and you can be damn sure it has happened in the past and will in the future.. You can be damn sure one way or another that enough reckless stuff happens and a few brows get raised, which can be real good or real bad for a city..

Sitting in the corner gently sipping his coffee in the cold evening air he watched thoughtfully.  The steam the only thing that stood out as the thick cold air chilled to the bone.  Pulling his coat tighter round his tall thick frame he let of a sneeze; watching heads turn he decided it was as good as ever to throw in his two cents.

Lurching forward his hands passively by his side he looked at the group and let of a gentle sigh.

 Rogues are bad for business and may appear due to friendship, boredom, vengeance or shits and giggle; sadly it happens.  The truth is we can't simply say X must die due to Y screwing up as in the past have seen allegations of cities placing rogues in others as a mean to dispose of that city and i am sure with the wealth of some could be handsomely rewarded.

Taking a sip from his coffee he frowned

All a city head or family leader can do is keep members motivated and try and stop the boredom.  Unfortunately, this will not always be enough as someone who wants to do something will do something.  The truth is, it is not even as simple about being a rogue anymore; look around the obits, how often do you see leaders not wanting a witness or speaking respectfully of their dissapointment in a member? the disease or rot is through multiple ranks of our business and sometimes easier to spot from a harsh word or attitude during ranking.

Looking on at the crowd he hopes he is keeping some attention spans.

The truth is the rogue, associates of the rogue or rogues and supporters should all be executed as a sign to leave a message for those commiting such acts.  The question only should remain on a city and rogues if is a regular problem or is not felt the city is doing enough to remedy a problem.  At the end of the day rogues are like a disease prevention is always better then cure, as i know i wouldn't want to lose any of those around me just for someone's last hurrah.

Walking back towards a crate, he sat back into it, sipped his coffee and wondered who would speak next.

Wonderful speech and a subject that is always interesting to comment on. I myself have always had the stance on crazies will be crazies. Sadly, holding people responsible for others actions can be destructive, much more then the actions of that single individual alone. Recent events show as such. Liza and Brandy's actions were extremely rare for the mobsters they are known to be. If such Cl's were held accountable then hundreds would lose homes and an entire cities accomplishments would be no more. Which in turn would cause to be rebuilt. Many of hard working, honest and loyal Mafioso's would have lost their lives for actions that no one would have seen coming. Granted, if it was a repeated situation within the Family then something would need to be done. And if that's the case then it would be up to the other cities to decide on what to do. However, it can't always be resolved and sometimes you just have to trust those you have power over, whether or not they abide is completely up to them in the overall aspect of things. Something none of us can control.

Clearing his throat, he chips in once more as he wipes the coffee grains from the bottom of his cup

Could we also take into account future possible rogue creation through what many would feel a harsh destruction of a city? I am sure in one of these fancy science mags i heared an article mentioning every action has a equal and opposite reaction?

He pauses thoughtfully looking for his book of matches

Personally I believe if you make someone a button man then you should sure are hell trust them with your life and your families life. How can you give someone a rank that could come back and bite you in the face without having a deep trust in them. Ive read in my family line journals about families that promoted there soldiers to mademan purely on the fact that this person would bring a better defence to the family. or more cash flow seeing as back with the rules in that time you could only carry as much narcotics as the position you held.

I have not been around much now,as I have been away many a days on out of town business.

As for mutliple rogues from a same family? If I was in power they would be shot dead. First and foremost to promote a button man its someone you trust. To have many rogues from your family? I can no longer trust your judgement. Therefore to protect my family and city I will remove you and the possible event of another rogue coming from your family.

Again I come to the street and see an interesting discussion and although I have a lot to say about the topic, I am only a wise guy and well - I'd rather not ruin my opportunity for advancement with personal opinions.  However, similarly to my speech in the street I recently made, I will read aloud some sentiments my late uncle expressed in his memoirs to hopefully find some wisdom from an age old Mafioso...

And then there is the subject of Rogue leaders... I've found this phenomenon of men to be the most paramount example of what decadence and habitual grind of a shithole our cities become when many weak leaders and static characters sit atop the leadership slope.  

They can be divided into a couple of classes, one we may understand and maintain.. The latter not so well:

1. The Rogue Leader - Typically defiant that their name has never been called to a position of leadership and their personal feelings of entitlement vindicate their choice to establish a threatening HQ in the middle of someone else's backyard.  Sure, some of them in past years brought up valid points and to some extent, probably could have achieved greatness had they had their legitimate opportunity.  Unfortunately, nobody seemed to value their opinions and over time these individuals grew sick of the bump and grind and decided that going out with style early in life would be a better alternative than growing old with never having been so bold as to take leadership rather than having it handed to them.  

Its ironic that we look upon rogue leaders with disgust because I personally view their existence to be ninety percent our collective fault.  If we valued the right things and always had the right men in charge or take charge, there would be no definition of a Rogue Leader.  The history books would instead, remember them as bold initiators of change over complacency.  Doers rather than do not-errs.  As the saying goes, it is better to err and do than to not and still err.  

I am not in agreeance with the actions of rogue leaders by any chance as we have our rules and way of things that must not be undone.. However, if we had more leaders in this thing of ours instead of managers, we would have fewer rogues or none at all.  But the second an individual views their opportunity for advancement, achievement, or accomplishment are all but lost in the infinite wave of high ranking bullshit monotony... The second that individual goes rogue and smiles upon death as a beginning rather than an end.  It is up to us to make the conditions for wise and honorable men to have the patience and calculation to maneuver their pieces on the board rather than to decay into intolerable and misunderstood Rogues.

2.  Rogue killers - to say the least, these are the most dangerous men in this thing of ours.  Their intentions are always selfish and self-glorifying and always endangering to the innocent and guilty alike.  Who we define as rogue killers are men who do not have much care to be in the position of leadership unless it allows them more opportunity to murder those whom they believe stand in their way of personal glory.  They want to tear down the establishment and replace reality with one they conjured up in a basement with pictures of helpless victims hanging on the walls.  In a way, they are psychotic and the definitions of irrational and rational clearly address this - a rational man adapts himself to the world; an irrational man expects the world to adapt to him.  It's only when that man demands and attempts to force the world to adapt to their conjectures that we may know them as psychotics and rogues.

There is no clear answer as to how we may eliminate the conditions for rogue men to come into being.  I do know however, that with all of the killing of Mafiosos that have fallen out of favor (Durdens, MIAs, RIAs) we have a lackluster appeal to a trigger happy, button mashing bump and grind population with no real satisfaction of eliminating any real threat, safeguarding any worthy cause, or achieving any level of memorable greatness... And this appeasement has only heightened the danger and intensified our internal decay.  We have substituted true accomplishment with equitable debauchery and monotony and this has allowed Rogue Killers to take up arms rather than alms on favored holidays and left us with so many senselessly slaughtered victims we once called friends.  

Years ago there were 10 to 1 rogue leaders to rogue killers, but now this has been reversed.  To call this progress would be a greater injustice to those whom have been killed in years past.  If only wiser men were pulling our strings, what happy puppets we may be....

Ok I hope this brings a little more clarity about the "old ways" you all seem to be referring to and my uncles words you may find enlightening once more...

Rogues are a plague on our society. I am pretty sure everyone here will agree with me on that. As for holding the CL or GF accountable, I, for one, believe that a certain amount of accountability must exist. They sheltered that person and stopped the hitters who walk these streets by the dozen from blowing him/her away just as their 48 hours ran out. Not only that, they trusted that person enough to bring them into their inner circle. Also, they must be in almost daily contact with their members and unless it is one of those Rogues with an 'agenda', I have found boredom to be a very noticeable trait.

With that being said, I would also say that the extent of accountability should not extend to a point where the CL is killed or the city is wiped. The Crew Leader or Godfather as the case may be has worked very hard and through the proper requisite channels to get to this position of power and to take it away just because of a rouging seems a tad harsh to me.

Want to make rogues unpopular?

Let's say Rogue A attacks family B.  Family B demands two deaths from Rogue A's family in reprisal.  Rogue A's CL chooses the sponsor and anyway he was friends with.

Let's bring accountability into this.

Leaders are already held accountable for the actions of rogues coming out of their families. Always have been, always will be. In fact, Bosses are held accountable for every little thing that they do that is related to their family. The question is not whether or not they should be held accountable (they already are), the question is, "How much power do other families have to make the Boss in question feel the retribution and how severe should the retribution be?".

It's meaningless to "hold someone accountable" if you don't have the power to do anything about it. If you do have the power, you are likely already holding everyone accountable for their actions, whether that may be by keeping a mental checklist of all their offenses until you've finally had enough, or by immediately wiping them off the face of the Earth.  If you do not have the power to do something about it, you are still holding others accountable. You're just doing it with a closed mouth, keeping mental notes, and waiting for the right time to unleash your wrath.