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| More, more, more! (Less, less, less?) | Started by: Mane on Oct 18, '08 21:06 |
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First off, I'd like to take a moment to take my hat off to all the new auths and personally congratulate them on their achievement. With every auth comes new life and new opinions to the ranks of the crew leaders, and diversity in opinion can only benefit us in recovering times like these. Onto the main topic of my eagerly awaited, first public speech. Since the war, we have witnessed nine people being given the opportunity to start their own family so far, to bring the total family count up to ten but leaving two cities currently empty due to Marietta's plan of authing two families per city. The advantages of such a move is that the more leaders there are, the more opinions can be expressed between the leaders themselves and more ideas brought to the fore. There is also more choice for the newcomers on who to join when they reach these shores, and smaller families so each leader is able to be more personal with his or her crew. However, the disadvantages are that too many crews can cause more chaos than order, too many crews can clutter up cities and there's the possibility of power hungry leaders resorting to force to try and claim their own city. Captaincies become a lot more unlikely, replaced by these smaller independent crews/families and there may be such a thing as too much choice for a newcomer. It will create bigger gaps too with the weaker crews not flourishing as much and the stronger ones just getting stronger. More than likely that I've missed out some advantages and disadvantages, as I've just covered some of the basic ones, but feel free to add some in if you feel the need. What I'm asking you is this: Would you prefer more independent crews and families, or are you of the opinion that less is better? Please remember that your opinions may or may not influence any thinking of the current leaders when it comes to the authing of new leaders, and this is only an opinion which you can feel free to express in a respectful way. |
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| Personally, i like this thing we have going on. If i was a CL who had any say right at this moment, i'd get the two unfilled cities filled right quick with 2 Cl's in each of them. But that's just me | |
| Reply by: Telkin at Oct 18, '08 21:10 | |
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| I'm worried that having this many CLs could lead to small wars. Perhaps even taking place within their own city. 2 CLs fighting for their city. The tradition that my bloodline was taught was, a CL owns a city. That city is theirs, and no one takes it from them, without one of them dying. So, I like the idea of giving the new people choices, but at this point, some of the current CLs have very little activity, and, in my mind, don't really need their own family*. So, in conclusion, I say, as families grow, give them the open cities. But, if some families cease to....exist (actively), then they can be disbanded. | |
| Reply by: Zishla at Oct 18, '08 21:20 | |
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Telkin, I agree with you to an extent sir. My opinion was that I'd like to see this plan carried out to the full, with 4 more auths in total to take place over the next week or two, two in each of the two remaining cities. I genuinely love the idea of having more families. Aye Zishla, that may be the case, but that could be seen as a good thing by some people? I do believe that right now there wont be any wars purely because we are regaining stability and a certain balance to things so nobody really will be looking to war right now. But in the future, then yes that could be the case. However, as I say, that will be one of the things that keeps the leaders on their toes. I don't like to see a leader relax because they're in such a strong position, as it was before with Iris and Daera, the big power double of Philadelphia and New York. |
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| Reply by: Mane at Oct 18, '08 21:33 | |
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I will try and be the least insulting I can possibly be... I personally think that having all the cities filled with a newly made family is a good idea. However, is it really necessary to fill each city with two new family members?? I mean it's good and all for some crewleaders as they have already managed to fill their HQs with mafiosos aspiring to be the next big thing, but how many new recruits are the newly made families going to get? Ten? Twenty at the most? Is that really all you want these families to have? Since when does a dozen people congregating in a building count as a Family? Now Marietta, our bloodline has been companions for many generations so no insults are coming my way but surely enough is enough? I remember a time when it was a priviledge, nay, a honour to be picked to start your own family. That the newly appointed crewleader had aspirations to become the next "big thing", now all they have to worry about is whether or not they can get their family figures into double digits. |
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| Reply by: SuperTed at Oct 18, '08 21:45 | |
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Back in the old days it was the standard for each city to have more than one family. Of course, back then there were many more mobsters running around, too. While there are some who do not like the constant referrals to "the old days", let me point out something...it was the fervor and excitement of mafia life in those old days which led to the rebirth of the mafia in the cities you currently inhabit. Obviously, there was something so great there that it led to the tradition being continued in this new land. They were doing SOMETHING right, so if you do not think those traditions should be honored, you probably were not there, or you just don't know your head from your ass. The thing that was so great, I believe, was the political tensions between a great number of families, the (normally) independence of each family, the variety in styles of leadership, and the diversity of options of families to join. More families means more interaction. This is obvious. Consider if each family was a person, and each person was in a room. More persons in a room means more interaction. More interaction means more politics, and politics is what keeps things interesting around here. There is a greater potential for family independence with more families. As I stated, back in the old days families generally stood on their own two feet. Alliances are retarded, and if you think otherwise, you are also retarded. There, that's settled. There is no reason that when two families go to war, every other fucking family needs to pick a side and jump into the fight, in order to defend their gay ass coffee shop buddies. I don't care if the leader of the family being attacked is your bestie for life. If it does not affect your family, stay the fuck out of it. We are mobsters. Our family is our business, and business is always about personal interests, not friendships and private interests. Once an individual leaves a family to start their own family, ties should be severed. Any other course of action results in a de facto conglomerate, where the lines are blurred between families. The last time we had that type of established powers was during the reign of Anita and Scotland. I don't believe we are quite at that place yet, where we can truly start acting like independent families again, but perhaps this is a start. More families will potentially mean more styles of leadership. Of course, this means the ability to demonstrate independent thought and the ability to stand on your own two feet (see previous paragraph). If a Boss is simply nodding their head and going along with the consensus, or the will of the most powerful leader, then what is the point in being a separate family? They should just rejoin the family they came from and be a subcrew leader. Final point...diversity of options in families to join. My oldest ancestors enjoyed joining all the different families around at any given time. When one would die, the son would almost always join a completely new and distinct family. This allowed my ancestors to meet many new mobsters and their cliques, and to observe and eventually hate them all. It was a great experience, since rather than being stuck in the attic of one leader for all eternity, my ancestors got to meet and work for almost all of the old legends, unlike some who clung to the same cliques all of the time. There is no really good reason why families have to be large. It is only insecurity and fear which makes a family want to continually grow larger than is needed to serve its purpose. If you look at the bigger picture, the interests of La Cosa Nostra, as a whole, are better served with several smaller families. |
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| Reply by: Hi at Oct 18, '08 21:49 | |
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People asked for more variety in leadership. They got it. People asked for more excitement. They have been given the opportunity to bring this about themselves. People asked for war. They got it. People asked for rebuilding. They got it. So far I would say that compared to the Anita reign or CP era things have been pretty damn good the last few months. What's wrong with a little variety? That's what people wanted isn't it? Now all you little warmongers can place bets on which crews and families are going to war each other. Those birds that chirp in ears just to start wars over made up crap or small bullshit have more ears to listen. Once again, you have the potential to change things and all I see are debates about how wrong, once again, the cities are being run. If your hopes, dreams, and plans for the seven cities are so damn perfect, why aren't you in charge? Isn't this what you wanted? |
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| Reply by: tiggy at Oct 18, '08 21:56 | |
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People have always wanted things better than they are until they are the ones in the driving seat. Take your own comments. You are obviously going to feel the last few months were great and better than any other period preceding it as Iris was at the helm. You also probably feel you were being free of bias when you said that, because to you it may well have been great. But one of the strengths of this is that not everybody enjoys the same aspects of this world and whilst some may be happiest when there is rapid turnover of leaders and war, others enjoy a slower build up, developing businesses and pulling jobs. "People" will always want something and never be satisfied. It is probably partly why so many bloodlines continue to walk our streets. Was the old world the idyllic world people like to pretend it was? No, not even close. There were months and months of stagnancy. There were alliances of leaders and repeatedly "safe" auths of the same faces who wouldn't rock the boat. To pretend otherwise is to succumb to nostalgia. However, as Hi has said, there were strong crews and an element of power sharing between large families. Sadly this hasn't been possible in this world for a variety of reasons, which date back to the first crews. Are we really getting back to that situation? Not for a few months at least. Marietta has a dominating influence over the Cities which makes any notions of several strong independent families only something to look forward to in the future. It is also fairly apparent that a family of 60-70 is going to be stronger than a family of 20. The most exciting times in this world are when politics are rife and the actions of Made Men and Capos can plunge 50+ people into a state of war. But that requires an understanding between the individuals at the top, which honestly, most people are incapable of allowing to develop. |
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| Reply by: Numbers4Glory at Oct 18, '08 22:50 | |
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As far as I am concerned people should be coming out here and commenting on what they believe to be going wrong in the world. It should not be in a way that is obviously disrespectful but more of a passing comment. When you are sat at the top you sometimes become blinded by your own greatness. You feel that everything is fine and the people around you say the same. The only time you generally find out if something is going wrong lower down the food chain is when speeches like this are made. Obviously the post maker could have a personal grudge against you and be trying to stir the pot but generally they are just posting opinions. These speeches and those that reply to them are the greatest indication of how well you are doing. Onto the subject in hand. 14 crews will eventually be in these cities with a average of 360 people walking these streets. That work out pretty much exactly at 14, 25 man crews. That'd be great for me. Tight knit close families who have to get to know each other and actually become a family. They will need to work together otherwise another dog would come along and chew their ass off. As has been said it also invites the world to change almost daily. People will argue, become blinded by their own greatness causing their downfall and listen to these 'little birdies' but with 14 leaders in charge at least you should always see diversity. |
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| Reply by: MrMotivator at Oct 19, '08 04:43 | |
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The idea that was implimented before the war was moving us in the wrong direction. in reality family heads would never buddy up unless it had mutual intrest for both families.(usually when another family is encroaching on no man's land) i now realize that Don Iris and Don Daera were allies for reasons I can't and never will figure out. All of the New CL's will be furtitivly glancing at each other and this will create a constant tension that will sometimes boil over, it's a fact of life. I liked Hi's idea that having so many CL's brings families closer together. and when things do boil over if your not involved in it, fugetaboutit. Even if a friend comes to you and asks for help with the enemy family....don't help them, you may make yourself an enemy but at least you didn't drag your family into a pointless conflict that resulted in masses of dead bodies in the street. It's all about family and business. Now things are going good, if we fill up Philly things would be perfect for a while, but can you say that 2 months from now? we will have to watch our backs in the future.....and I'm ok with that Please tell me if my opinion makes sense, i know what i am trying to say but if i didn't make sense tell me so i can correct it or clear it up BD |
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| Reply by: bigdaddy183 at Oct 19, '08 05:23 | |
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This is what we asked for, and I for one like it...plenty of new blood at the top, plenty of interaction between these new families, and the potential for anyone deserving to leave a mark on us. Many years ago we had the system of acting godfathers for each city, where one family would be subordinate to the other in each city - perhaps it is just that I don't mix in the right circles with my humble rank of earner - but this system does not sem to be in place...a world of all equals perhaps? who knows - that's another story for another day... But away from my sidetracking - the way things are right now are great and I would have to agree with Telkin, some more auths in the unfilled cities would be great...nothing beats closely knit families and it gives us the best chance for development. |
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| Reply by: Mr_Bombastic at Oct 19, '08 06:52 | |
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Personally I like the variety It gives new mafioso much more of a choice of families where they will fit in the best which can only benefit our world. And yes, it may cause a few small wars - but note the word small - our world will not be devastated by such as it has been in the past by 2 or more large families battling it out. On another note, you can please some people some of the time but never all the people all of the time. Anything we do will have both pros and cons and will lead to a lot of contentment and a lot of complaining. Such is the way of our world |
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| Reply by: Brianna at Oct 19, '08 07:12 | |
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Give me a break, the reign of Iris and Daera was by far the most frustrating run I can remember in this thing of ours. It doesn't matter what happens now, things can only get better. Regarding the opening speech, I like the fact there are so many families kicking around and Hi is right, alliances are completely nonsensical. |
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| Reply by: Pandemic at Oct 19, '08 07:16 | |
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Alliances are smart if you feel that you are weak. If I felt vulnerable right now I'd be talking to Marietta and Cab_Tufting constantly. Trying to make it so they were on my side. Obviously, for one of those two to get behind you may be seen as stupid but it is sometimes better to have someone like that by your side. Protect them now and who knows what they could do for you in the future. Their life is owed to you and you can call that debt anytime you wish. |
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| Reply by: MrMotivator at Oct 19, '08 09:57 | |
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The erm, "mechanics" of our world cause CL's to naturally want the larger crews. This conflicts with the idea of small tightly bound crews. I think what we need is a sort of "consitution". Plainly stated rules meant to keep this thing of ours from falling apart as it did so many times before. Perhaps that is for another time. While 2 crews per city is "great" I think it would be even better to think of that as a starting point. I would like to see as many as 5 crews in some cities. I'd like to see commissions that focus on the political workings within a city instead of between them all. When the cities lack any sense of their own community we turn to the streets and the most powerful crews throughout all the cities. When the politics of this thing of ours involves so many powerful entities it becomes self destructive. The only way to solve this problem is to agree to limit crews to a small amount and using sub crews as the only method to expand. Some people don't like too many crews. More crews means more people in a position of power that could eventually turn on you. Hi is right about alliances. It is just a label and nothing more. Believing that your own sub division can't turn on you because you slapped them with the sub crew label is foolish. But at the same time alliances will be sort of a balancing act. If a crew grows and becomes powerful, smaller crews may ally up like it's an arms race. We saw instances of this when the two big dons were Iris and Alessia. Every time a crew sympathetic to one side was created another was created for the other side. At that time the cities were basically monopolized by two different forces. At this point we are lucky to have power distributed, but it could quickly turn back into a monopoly if we are not careful. I for one call on all crews with more than 50 members to lower their crews to 50 or less and put the rest in a sub division crew. Sub divisions should be looked at as part of the same parent family and therefore not considered an additional crew despite the fact that it is only a label. This would further distribute power and lower the risk of potential facist states being created. The more of a democracy this is the more peaceful it can be with smaller but more frequent wars to entertain us. |
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| Reply by: Assailant at Oct 19, '08 09:58 | |
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| As you had mentioned, there are good and bad things about having a lot of families. I believe that if we can work together, we can bring great changes and ideas to the community. I remember long ago when there were quite often more than one family in a city, and it worked out fine. You will always get someone that is power hungry, wanting to take over, but I hope it doesn't come to that. I like Marietta's plan, and look forward to seeing it carried out, and how things will work. | |
| Reply by: Hayley at Oct 20, '08 16:38 | |
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Okay i've thought about this speech since it was made. At first I thought maybe I shouldn't comment on it but now I'm at the point where I feel I almost have to. At this current point in time we have 10 families. 3 of the families have over 50 members, the rest have no more than 30. Yes I am well aware that my family is the smallest, that is not what has prompted my response here. If Mariettas plans to have 2 families in each city come to pass, some of those families are going to bee extremly small, yes I undertands that variety breeds diversity but I can't understand now how we have a need of more families. One thing I would never ask is that those families that have over 50 cut down teh size of their familes, the people they have work hard for them and are part of their family. To ask them to leave would be disrespectful to what they have already done. Also while these families have the numbers they have, newcomers to our shores are going to be drawn to them as they are the ones who hold the power. Right now I feel that we should hold back on future auth's an old saying comes to mind, "too many chiefs and not enough indians" Now I realise that this sounds like a plea from a leader who has trouble finding workers but it isn't. It just so happens I'm rather picky about who approaches me and who I approach. I'm not the type to just welcome anyone with open arms, never have been and I'm damn sure not changing who I am. That being said though I do believe that those who are now crewleaders should be given the chance to build their family. Otherwise we may end up at the point where CL's are rushing to get the next person fresh in the docks and honestly is that our way. In my opinion no. |
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| Reply by: Dante_Balboni at Oct 20, '08 16:56 | |
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I agree Dante, in that you don't want people being picked off the boat. I also think that it is a good thing that you only invite people you trust. It will serve you well later not to have people that fall out of line as frequently as they do in the big families. I agree also that making bigger families drop members so they only get to 50 is a bad idea. That's why I mentioned putting them in a sub division crew. Technically they'd still be in the same family but under a high ranking member instead. It helps ensure that no particular leader becomes too powerful and also better distributes members under different organizers. It also lightens the load put on CL's with large crews because let's face it, not only do we have 375 mafioso, they are all active. Managing a crew with just 60+ is a huge job meant only for those with little to no life. If we promote smaller crews it will invite people who would otherwise turn the job down to pick it up and show the community what they can do. |
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| Reply by: Assailant at Oct 21, '08 08:52 | |
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Dante, I believe there is two sides to that coin my friend. On the one side, you are right in what you say: some people will just join the strongest family which (in their eyes) is the one that has the most members. However, the members that seek power are often not the ones you want as they are the selfish Mafioso generally. The ones that come to you are the ones that are seeking an active role in a family, so they join a smaller family to be an integral part of it. These are the more unselfish ones and usually the more loyal members. I am personally all for more families. I like the idea of there being 2 families per city with every city filled. I believe that would create more politics, and wars will be far less costly. |
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| Reply by: Mane at Oct 21, '08 11:33 | |
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The thing is, we're seeing auth's that haven't really shown a great deal of themselves in the streets or elsewhere for that matter, most (and not all) of these auths were just makeshift (no offence) in order to house the homeless, but never-the-less some are proving themselves to be worth choices. Right now we have a range of crews with the aim that there will be 2 in each city and because of this we'll see a great deal of diversity. Some families will run differently to others, but as we know eventually those not having a clue what they're doing will be removed from power. Right now I think this is a good idea, let the different crews build up, possibly become established families and get the place ran how it should be, with power sharing, rather than a singular person/group running the show. |
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| Reply by: muller at Oct 21, '08 13:02 | |
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