If, for one second DrNeoCortex, you are suggesting that Countdown or anyone else for that matter shouldn't have the first reaction of wanting to remove a threat to myself or any other member of their city, then I say without a moments hesitation, you are wrong!

It isn't that Countdown wanted to kill someone, it's that he wanted to protect his family, his city and to be quite honest the members of every single city including yours.

Common sense and better judgement would, without doubt, have led Countdown to believe that anybody going bold without a prior authorisation speech being made was in fact a rogue. There was no sudden urge to it, that is what happened and would always be what happened. I'll also be the first to say that while Countdown and I are the only ones saying it in public to date, there were dozens saying it behind closed doors at the time.

Now. You might wish to take a moment to figure out all of the details of what did happen here. Perhaps listen to all of what Countdown and I have had to say on the matter, which may even be enough the clarify the former. Consider the fact that what you've said would suggest that you're telling Countdown that his first reaction shouldn't be the wish to protect his family, his loved ones, his city and every other innocent member of this thing of ours. After considering all of that, perhaps you might not feel the same? I'd certainly hope so.

"Don't get me wrong.. protecting your family is always top priority. If you felt that way then so be it. You did. However.. I still don't understand and yes I've listened to all your replies.. how people of this day and age can be extremely hasty with assuming rogues. A mail to upper structures went out.. a few minutes later a thread was announced. I see no 'real' urgency problems here. Adding onto that.. Soprano was setting up with his Army of BG's. That also has a tendency to scream rogue or not. But perhaps will the economic collapse of the hiring prices for BG's I can sort of understand why you may not take a persons BG status into account anymore."

"Also.. I didn't get the +1 comment from your bloodline. I barely know your bloodline if I'm perfectly honest for I have been here and there in our world across the years. I make this comment based on the fact that our world has slowly become a place where the +1's mean everything. If you have taken that comment offensively then I apologise."

"So I ask one more question. In one of the other speeches one of you mention our new postal service compared to the old. Would it not have come to common sense to simply mail the leader of the district in which Soprano set up.. which in this case was Cpt-Harris. To ask him if Soprano was a rogue or not? I'm quite confident you would have had your reply reasonably quickly. Or.. if someone had of contacted Cpt-Harris in the coffee shops.. you'd have gotten an even quicker answer there. I'm sure Cpt-Harris wouldn't take offense if you'd have mailed asking. Nor would I believe any other leader if a speech hadn't been made straight away."

DrNeo has a quick breath.

"At the end of the day.. no one is dead. Lessons can be learnt for everyone here.. not to be so hasty or to ensure speeches are made quicker. I have seen many auths recently with next to no speech made at all and a simple upper structure mail has been enough. Either way.. I'm sure this isn't the first.. and it won't be the last time these kind of 'misunderstandings' will come around. Now if you don't mind I'd like to go and get a drink at a local bar. Care to join me?"

I'm just going to put this out there, it seems to me as if some people are overreacting. Anyone who would just assume someone wearing a new bold suit was a rogue is obviously not a very knowing person of our way of life. And if it was of such concern to you, and if Godfather Harris was online, could you not have just mailed him? Would it not have been better than coming to ruin a friend of mine's celebration? Could you not have gone to Godfather Harris and just said, hey, maybe next time you could put the thread up a little sooner. I have seen in the journals of my ancestors read of numerous crewleaders who set up with nobody knowing. Guess what my ancestors wrote about what they did. They asked the city that person was set up in if they were authed. Was quick, alerted everyone to the fact that there was a possible rogue if the person was rogue, and then I would spread it about the crew like wild fire. Maybe I'm just a more social person. I don't know, but if I see a bold and no speech up, I'm gonna ask questions before I shoot. And that's my main point. You should always check before you shoot, has that not always been a rule around our parts?

Has it not crossed your minds that I did ask someone from your city and that is where I got the final confirmation from?

I would consider Soprano a friend of mine too Man_Go, considering what his son did for me, I owe him a huge one. Don't get so hungup about where this is being posted. Soprano isn't a self-centred person, he doesn't need a whole torrent of "omg congrats", especially if the subject we have veered off into saves numerous lives in the future.

Who knows... what's been said here may even save YOUR life if you get chosen to go bold, Man_Go.

A mail to upper structures went out.. a few minutes later a thread was announced. I see no 'real' urgency problems here.

I do. Huge ones.

In the time between the gentleman setting up and the public receiving confirmation of the legitimacy of his authorisation, he could have killed someone. He could have killed me, a family member of mine, my leader or my Godfather. You may not care enough about your family for that to be a problem, but it sure is one for me!

There is an extremely simple way for someone not to get mistaken for a rogue. A simple authorisation speech made to the public before the bold suit is donned removes all issues surrounding it. It removes the risk of the auth being shot, it removes the risk of a shooter mistakenly shooting someone with no ill intent (though I would argue they have more than enough validation for the shot) and removes the problem of future rogues being given a larger window in which to operate in the future if we start accepting random people setting up in our cities without a clear public authorisation to do so.

I make this comment based on the fact that our world has slowly become a place where the +1's mean everything.

Regardless of why it was made, the comment was a false one. It wasn't the lust for a kill that struck the thought, it was the wish to protect others that caused it. A reaction that was shared by myself and numerous other residents of our fine cities.

To ask him if Soprano was a rogue or not?

If the value of a new leaders life isn't worth the time to make a public announcement in advance, I shudder. It shows not just a disregard for the new auth in question, but for each and every member of our community. It puts each and every one of us at increased risk of future rogue attacks where shots are fired while people scurry around in confusion sending mails to see if it's legitimate or not.

Anyone else remember when there was a Godfather named Roman? Yeah, he was pretty great. Some would say he was one of the most powerful and best Godfathers ever known to our way of life. I remember reading about times where there was no auth speech for someone to set up for several hours after they received their bold suit. And nobody from what I can tell questioned it. Why, because to them, they didn't act hastily. They knew what would happen if they did act like that. And by the way, once again, check before you shoot is my main argument. You say you did so, and I say to that, then why the big deal? If everyone knows that as a rule, then why could they simply not do that? 

Read Satanta's reply Man_Go as I can't really add to it. The part about giving ACTUAL future rogues a longer window before anyone knows they're rogue is where my focus would be.

And to that I say, if the rogue hasn't targeted anyone, then it isn't that big of a deal. And honestly, in the first few minutes of him being bold, there would have been an obit, if not before he ever went bold had he been a rogue. I know how our way of life works. I've been around long enough to know that arguing with people so set for or against something is pointless because they are blinde to any other option other than their own option. It's obvious you guys are one of those kinds of people. So close minded. When if you would even care to look at what has been said. 

This has never been a topic that I've EVER seen or read about in the journals. Which means, why bring it up now? Because like I've already stated, I remember a few occasions where someone would get auth, and then not put a thread up for a bit. And there was nothing sent out other than a mail to all upper structure. And that was enough. Why the sudden urgency for a speech. I mean, in a war you take the time to find out who is shooting you do you not? Well, same thing goes for this. You take the time to find out if they're rogue. Even if it means losing a couple more lives, just to make sure that you don't end up losing yours too soon. 

That's all I'm going to say as you two seem to be pretty determined to make my Godfather out to be a bafoon. So have a nice day.

Even if it means losing a couple more lives...

*Shakes his head and walks away, wondering what ever happened to honour and being willing to do anything to save the life of a family member*

Katniss approaches the building as the upper structure for the Suburb emerges, an already growing group of men and women gathered around outside. With her eyebrows knitted together and her lips drawn into a straight line, she plasters on a somewhat confused smile as she steps around the gathering. Turning her smile onto Soprano it becomes genuine as she bows her head and takes the man's hand in a friendly handshake.

"Soprano, it warms my heart to see you get this opportunity, and I am happy that all of your hard work for the city of Chicago has finally culminated into this greatest of honors for you. You will do so well in your new role within our city, and I cannot wait to see the amazing things you and your new family will achieve together!"

With another quick smile the young girl turns toward the rest of the crowd and frowns slightly. When there is finally a pause in the conversation she clears her throat politely and raises her eyebrows.

"In regard to the rest of this conversation, which has turned into a somewhat spiraling debate, the only thing I can really say is this: I can only hope, since you all seem to be such excellent, observant, and protective members of the community, that this same amount of stress, anger and frustration was granted toward the last string of Mafiosi that were authorized as was given to my friend Soprano here."

Katniss pauses to take a breath before continuing.

"For you see, this is how the last several authorizations have been handled. A mail was sent to the upper structure of each city, and later on once the auth had been settled, a street poster was hung or a speech was made. There was no debate as to whether or not those individuals were rogue, there was no derailing of authorization speeches before this one. Were you all just as concerned when you saw those other men, four in particular within the last month that I can think of, went bold?"

"This is how things have been done. And true, Satanta, years and years ago it may have been handled differently, and trust me when my bloodline returned to these shores it was a weird adjustment to make. However, since the rest of the cities did it, and seemed to have no problem with it, why shouldn't our city be allowed to do the same? We take the lead from Philly, from New York, from Detroit: each city has had their own authorizations within the last month, each handled in the same exact fashion."

"Regardless of whether or not Bosses or Godfathers have been active and awake in our world when authorizations have happened has not been an issue. Regardless of your position in this thing, this has been the system and situation that has gone on for every auth since I have touched my toes upon these shores after a lengthy absence. Again, as many as four other auths from other cities have been set up, with a one-hundred percent success rate, I may add, within the last month. None of them were challenged as rogues."

"As an aside, speaking of rogues, I can tell you from experience, too, that even regardless of position in this thing I have had to do my own research in the case of legitimate rogues. In the case of the last actual, legitimate rogue I was present for, I actually had to go out of my way and ask the Godfather of the city the rogue was originally from if the individual was, indeed, a rogue. I would think that would be a more pertinent mail to be sent out, or a more pressing speech to make?"

"Yes, I agree that posters are imperative, and, as we are all standing around here discussing this now, we can agree that a speech did get out. If this entire situation is truly the large issue you are all making it out to be, again- when it never has been before this point, then I would suggest that you take your concerns to the place where you will have the most effective change: your own Godfather. Your Godfather can then speak to the other Godfathers, and perhaps they can come up with an alternative way on how to handle new authorizations in the future. As this isn't an issue that should be pinned purely upon Soprano, nor on Captain Harris. Every single Godfather and Underboss has used this system, and therefore should be held just as responsible and culpable."

I'm not sure where you're getting this information from Katniss, but the last several auths have not gone down this road at all... the most recent one I remember was Mudkip and his auth was announced in the streets before he went bold. How is that 'handled in the exact same fashion' as this one.

Some MAY have gone down this road recently, but I wasn't around to notice it... this one I was. This has not been the norm for me at all... for the ones I have been active for (online at the time) new bolds have ALWAYS been announced first.

I don't get why there is such a problem with me bringing this out here onto the streets. I'll take my views to whomever I want, or to the streets if I feel the need to. I didn't feel I could get enough of/a diverse enough range of opinions by individually mailing people and as I already stated I had no access to the coffeeshops.

I brought this subject up because it could possibly save lives from being wasted in the future... so I'm unsure as to why people have such a problem with it apart from it being a place where people are supposed to be congratulating Soprano (which I have done). The fact that it turned into a bit of a debate is surely a good thing, no?

Or should we all just whisper behind closed doors and go back to the not-so-long-ago era of Roman where people were afraid to speak at all and the streets died a horrible death?

"I get the information from my own two eyes. As you have stated you may not be around to see every auth, but I have been around for a few recently where people have gone bold before any information was released to the public- and it wasn't a problem then, as the upper structures were informed with a mailing... per usual. And you're right, the last few auths have not gone down this road at all. In fact, no one seems to care when someone goes bold before their auth speech anymore- just when Soprano and Captain Harris do it."

"The problem isn't that you're bringing the issue to the streets, the issue is that you're trying to pin an entire faulty system upon the city I work for. Does the process need to be changed? Sure. Does that need to fall solely on the shoulders of Soprano, who literally just took auth this very evening? No. He's not a mover and shaker in our world yet, and doesn't have the authority to overhaul an entire, what, years worth of how things have been done?"

"I'm not suggesting that you don't debate about it, nor am I suggesting that you 'whisper behind closed doors' about it either. I'm just saying, if this is a huge issue, then certainly someone of your rank and understanding of our world knows that standing in the middle of the streets yelling about something is the least effective way of getting things done. Surely, someone as long standing as your bloodline knows by now that if you want to see a change you make the change? And what better way than to start by speaking to your own Godfather- a man capable of leading his city therefore capable of perhaps starting this change throughout our world?"

"And again, I understand you are being altruistic and completely selfless in your vision of wanting to save lives that could potentially be lost in the future, but if that were the case, why does no one seem to care when people actually go rogue? If we want to change the way this system is done, thereby ensuring that there is absolutely no room for error (which again, I haven't seen... any? Since I've been here?)- debating here with myself, or DrNeo, or Man_Go or anyone else who has spoken here this evening isn't the way to do it. Take your concerns to a place where they will be heard, make an actual change. As you are currently making another speech about it I find it apt to ask: will you be passive about this issue, or will you be aggressive? Will you debate in the street for a day and let it fall by the wayside, because at the core you really couldn't care less? Or do you actually care about the issue like you say you do, and will you get aggressive and make the change?"

I could have just gone to my Godfather about it Katniss, but we don't all have the same opinions on how to best get things done... you have your ways, I have mine. My blood has invoked more change via the streets than personal mails during our time here so no... this is not the least effective way to get things done. It might be the least effective way to get things done for you, but we're not all you.

What better way could there be to make change than to get the masses involved? Because as we stand now, although you disagree with the way I have gone about this, I have found out that you do not seem to like what happened here today, as you stated posters are imperative in these situations. You're just out here defending your city like a mobster is supposed to.

How would I have known that you were also against this method if I had just gone to my Godfather? How would I have known that many other people also feel the same way (from the private mails ive been getting). I wouldn't have... so it would have been my one voice on the subject. Instead now I can go to my Godfather to talk about this situation knowing that there are a lot of mobsters out there who feel the same way.

I try not to be, but I am a selfish person at heart. I'm doing my best to gauge other people's opinions before trying to make changes because whats the point in trying to make changes if most of the population is against it? As arrogant and self-centred as I may be... if the reaction to what Satanta and I have posted had drawn a LOT of negative reaction I'd have quickly realised that this was a change that would not be possible. I now know that it is.

So although you think I'm out here trying to pin this on your city, I am not. This is just the first instance I've come across during my activity. If this had been any other city... including my own, I would have said exactly the same so let's not pretend I'm picking on Chicago, Cpt-Harris and/or Soprano. Especially as the 2 individuals named I have a massive amount of respect for, although for completely different reasons.

I should also note that some time ago, just in case Soprano or Cpt-Harris did take offence to me 'hijacking' (for the want of a better word.. too tired to think too hard right now) I greased their palms with a small tribute as a token gesture that I meant them no personal harm to them.

Apr 08, '13 01:28     Your accountant has made payment of $1,000,000 to Cpt-Harris.
Apr 08, '13 01:22     Your accountant has made payment of $1,000,000 to Soprano.    

You can confirm these transactions with them if you wish. I was not forced or coerced into making these payments, they were purely an apology for 'taking over' this poster. I regret none of the content that has been said

I can only hope, since you all seem to be such excellent, observant, and protective members of the community, that this same amount of stress, anger and frustration was granted toward the last string of Mafiosi that were authorized as was given to my friend Soprano here.

I can't say there is any stress, anger or frustration here. Nor is there any ill will being shown towards Soprano, from any quarter.

Thank you for the compliments though. I'm sure Countdown is grateful for them too, even if he's too shy to mention his thanks. I always liked to be considered protective, that's a real feather in my cap. Observant? Not so much, but the sight of a bold suit without advance notice does scare me to attention. Excellent? Well now I'm just starting to blush.

each city has had their own authorizations within the last month, each handled in the same exact fashion."....

....A mail was sent to the upper structure of each city, and later on once the auth had been settled, a street poster was hung or a speech was made.

I have no knowledge of what occurred behind closed doors, nor do I wish to know as that's not my place, and have no reason to doubt that it was the case of all leaders and hands being informed.

However, I can say that each and every new headquarters that I have witnessed since returning to the shores, which would be the vast majority if not all within the past month, has been preceded by an advanced notification to the public. It's the first thing I look for whenever I see a new bold suit, especially to see who the new leader is as I'm still getting to know so many new faces.

... then certainly someone of your rank and understanding of our world knows that standing in the middle of the streets yelling about something is the least effective way of getting things done

I have to disagree on this one. Despite being very different personalities and having very different styles, I must agree with Countdown that taking to the streets is often the most effective means of bringing change and reform to our world.

It goes much further than just effectiveness and efficiency, it's about influencing and changing the minds of others too. People being able to bring a logical and respectful issue to the streets is one such problem. It's something which appears to have died in our community and it's a crying shame that it has. If for no reason than for that alone this issue is worth debating publicly.


No attack was made on Mr. Soprano, by either Countdown or myself (I've never had the opportunity of speaking with the man in question so certainly have no ill will towards him). No attack was made on Godfather Harris by either Countdown or myself (I have been fortunate enough to cross paths with the honourable Godfather and hold him in the highest regards. He's an extremely intelligent and thoughtful man in my experience). Issues were raised by Countdown, which from your own words you appear to agree with, in a respectful manner and then a debate ensued.

While I do completely agree with anyone jumping in to defend the actions of their city, I tend to do the same myself, please do ask yourself if not having a speech prior to the new headquarters being opened is a good thing?

I've never heard anyone suggest it is and I'm fairly confident I'll never be swayed myself to believe it is. It's an unneeded risk, a potential issue and something that is very easily avoided.

First I would like to say congrats to soprano on the well deserved promotion of being able to run a family of your own here in the fine city of Chicago.

Christian looks around and sees a buzz toward the back of the crowd and decides to investigate.

Call me mistaken but isn't the debate about rogues on another street corner just down the block. This here is a celebration for a mafioso who has worked tirelessly for his city and has been given the special honor from his very own godfather to take charge of a family of his own.

Lighting a cigarette he turns to Mr Countdown from Philly who seems to be yelling the loudest at this point.
Now Mr Countdown, if you were as you say walking the streets of old Philadelphia minding your own business, then why would there such a hustle and bustle about a new bold 12 hours away in Chicago? If you felt like your life and the life of your family was at all in danger shouldn't your first call be to your leader to ask if this is a threat instead of coming to a party and crying rogue? Don't get me wrong I myself lookout for my city and its well being. But included in that responsibility is to stop, take note of the situation at hand, and get in contact with the proper members of my upper structure. Then and ONLY THEN would I consider taking action into my own hands. If your crew leader was sleeping, I'm sure there were other members of the cities upper structure that could have answered your question before you come out to our party can cry rouge!

"You're right, we all have different opinions on how to get things done. My bloodline has made plenty of changes using nothing but the streets before, however, in this situation, in this climate, I would disagree that this is the proper forum to do so. Unfortunately, you and I can both hopefully agree, that it is not the masses who will be able to make this change, as it is not the masses who make the authorizations into the various districts. It is the leaders, the Godfathers, the Underbosses who are in control of this situation. You and I could sit here all night debating every angle of this until we're blue in the face, which I'm sure we would both love to do, but at the end of the day what will have changed?"

"If you are truly out here doing your fieldwork, then I commend you and am looking forward to the next phase of your plan, which would be as I assume it would: informing someone of the proper rank, title, and power to do something about making the change. You can bring forward everyone's opinions, bring transcripts of the debate, and perhaps then your Godfather can actually charge forward and make the change. And that's what we truly want here, right? No room for error? Easy transitions with no loose ends involved? A happy community? Anyone who knows me, or my bloodline, knows that the last thing I want is unrest, confusion or complications when an easier solution can and should be found. And, if you are receiving countless feedback on the issue then perhaps this is something we should both bring up to both of our respective Godfathers. If, like we agree, a change needs to be made, then we can both work just as hard to make it happen."

"Rogues are bad for everyone's business, it's a saying that has been used time and time again throughout the generations of our world. If we as a world need to be informed and on-point about every bold that pops up among the streets, then we need to revamp the system. It starts with a mail to upper structures, which leads to a bold, which ends with an authorization speech. Somewhere along the lines someone thought this was a necessary sequence of events when making a new auth. According to you, and those whom you have the support of, it seems as if there is too much red-tape. If there is any doubt at any point in anyone's mind about the legitimacy of someone wearing a bold suit, then we need to find a more efficient way to get the word out."

"I want to believe you when you say that you would have called out this issue regardless of whatever city had made this authorization tonight, I truly do, and for sake of getting this speech back on track to where it belongs I will say that I am inclined to believe you. I believe you when you say you have not been around for the instances where other mobsters have gone bold before their leaders have informed the wide public (not just the upper structures of our world), but as I have been around to see it happen in the past I did feel the city I work for was being targeted unfairly. I apologize if I came across as hostile, but like you highlighted I am just defending my city like 'a mobster is supposed to'. So from here I suppose we can only step back from this speech, allow whatever congratulations to be presented to be presented, and move forward with the knowledge that we both are going to be proactive about pushing for a change in a faulty system. The four cities and twelve districts of This Thing would certainly benefit from it in the end."

"As a side note, as you touched briefly upon before, I am happy that we no longer live in the dark ages of Roman, where we can freely come to the streets and express our opinions on any subject at any time. You have no idea how liberating it is to have a decent debate for once, and have it end in what I hope is a constructive growing point for not only we who took place in it, but the rest of the community as well."

Actually Mr. Grey you are wrong there. Although normally it would be the case... from what I could see (the crew info page and the online list) there were NO active members of my city's upper structure. Next time, dont be so sure as you could be wrong.

I don't know how many times I have to state that my leader was not around to ask, but I'll say it again... he was not around to ask. I went along the EXACT same channels as you just mentioned. I even mailed an acquaintance from Chicago to ask and eventually their reply was the one who took me 'off edge'.

Why would there be such a hustle and bustle about a new bold 12 hours away? Is that a serious question?

Let's see...

*Any amount of PH members could have been in Chicago at the time and been shot if this had been a rogue.

*Any amount of our allies from New York could have been in Chicago at the time and been shot if this had been a rogue.

*I do believe my city and your city (although it was NY then) have a long history of inter-twining bonds, so I was attempting to look out for you too.

*I was formerly a part of the DT families before they move there, so I still have a lot of friends over there who I was looking out for.

*If Soprano turned out to be rogue, I might have been able to get a shot in before they did.

I could probably think of a few more given time, but as stated in a previous post... I'm getting quite weary and my mind is not working as sharply as it should.

So.. I did everything you said I should do anyway, did that give me the right to say what I said considering I fulfilled all your usual routine. I can't believe how bláse people are being about the potential loss of lives this subject could cause if it is not rectified. It's like people just don't care anymore.

Also, the general replies from the people of Chicago here have mentioned that this is a thread for celebration... then gone and done the exact opposite of their own wishes and wrote out a well thought out retort to myself or Satanta. If it is so sacred, why are you pushing this further?

Deadly stops as he walks the streets. There is an auth announcement going on, which isn't following the normal trend. He stops to listen before speaking up.

"Soprano - I have not had the pleasure of working with you or your ancestors that I know of. That being said I am sure that you will do well in your new position. Now I must apologise as I have been personally pulled into a debate, which I will not sit silent about."

Deadly turns to face those debating auths and how they should be announced.

"Something not a lot of people know about me, is I have a very random memory. This may sound like an odd statement, but let me explain. You see the every day normal things; like what I had for dinner or where I left my keys, all seem to escape my mind as soon as they enter it. However the things that do stick, are moments. Moments that amuse me, moments that I find interesting, moments that don't really mean much to anyone except myself. One of these very moments is something I remember about the late Godfather SquidMaster. The thing I remember is the way he paced the room, the way he couldn't sit still, the feeling of electricity in the air from his anticipation and excitement - all because I made him wait until I had announced his auth before he made his move. I remember this feeling in fact, from every auth I have made."

We take the lead from Philly, from New York, from Detroit: each city has had their own authorizations within the last month, each handled in the same exact fashion.

"That right there, is what I have a problem with. Every single auth that I have made, I have announced before they took one step inside their HQ. The one and only time the city of Philadelphia announced an auth 'late', the person was scolded and knows not to make that mistake again. So please do not say that this lateness in announcing an auth publicly is anything to do with taking the lead from my city. I can assure you that other than that one mistake, the city of Philadelphia does not make auths without the proper announcements being made in the streets beforehand."

"Countdown, Satanta - I appreciate your obvious enthusiasm, and the protectiveness you hold for each and every member of this thing of ours. Perhaps next time though start a new street discussion, away from where these friends of ours are simply trying to celebrate the advancement of their friend and coworker. It was quite rude of you to waltz in here and cause a scene, when you could have taken ten paces down the street and held the same discussion without interrupting this man's celebrations."

Deadly turns back to Soprano and shakes his hand.

"Congratulations once again Soprano, I wish you all the best of luck in your new venture."