I've never seen so much butt hurt in one thread before. 

Why must you OOC? My speech was pretty till you showed up.

vectre stops once again to answer M's question "ah the centuries old question of why, well here is my answer if cpt.harris truly said that then he needs to learn from this mistake and atone for it by showing better judgement and bring honor to chicago and i too respect cpt.harris for giving me a chance to learn and thrive in his family and that alone earned my respect.now back to the question of why things DON'T have to be the same way and the simple answer is power. you of all people know the virtues and vices of having power during your time as GF in LV do i know your achievements you made when you had the power? no i do not. but to truly change the way things are run the one with power has to know how to separate virtue and vice with having power lets use deadlysin as an example for a year he had the power to change the mafia world but instead of having the balls to try to he got corrupted by his power and sunk city after city after city and it was that vice of corruption that ultimately lead to his downfall there is an old saying "those who have power will seek to use it" the only way to stop the egotistical idiots is to prevent them from gaining power in the first place which is impossible due to the fact there are 2 types of leaders strong armed dictators and merciful leaders and you are right that Frank is a mirror image of ps and ds. so the point is what makes a good leader is defined by how well he can separate the virtues and the vices and resist corruption and paranoia in this world there are many creeps deadlysins and philsteaks some are open about their strong armed desires and others hide behind a facade of benevolence and the fact of the matter is it is impossible to weed out the ones who hide behind a facade which ultimately leads to their rise so as long as those snakes exist there wont ever be a 100% change like you desire i really do respect the virtues you stand for so my suggestion to you is gain back that power you had in LV and start making those changes you crave the best thing you can do is lead by example and if you truly mean what you say then prove it. prove it to the hundreds of people who play this game by teaching them your ideals become a leader once again put those people you teach in power then for a short time you will have your ideals set in stone as deadlysin and phil steak had done when they were in power.

Any tea, sir?

Your speech is riddled with symptoms of OOCitis.. Now your most recent contribution has confirmed the diagnosis. You didn't do any of the shit you refer to as "I did". Your ancestors, your bloodline, those who came before you did it... As in your references to those that call this place home today. They are who they are, not who they're ancestors, bloodlines, those who came before them.  I have refrained from pointing this glaringly obvious fact out due to my respect for your bloodline. 

As for the rest of what you have said, you do sound pretty butthurt and more concerned about basing your personal feelings toward Frank and  his city on your forefathers' experiences than experiencing "The Frank" yourself. 

Serious. You don't like it. Rank up and do something about it. Moaning, talking shit, and doing what you are doing (Especially with the very serious case of OOCitis that you seem to be suffering) isn't going to do shit about shit.. Other than contribute to the massive outbreak of the disease that we have seen hit the cities since the uncalled for and stupid (sarcasm) deaths occurred.

Unless there's been a positive outcome from this wonderful speech that I am unaware of maybe you should just do what we did after our parents/aunts/uncles/grandparents/brothers/sisters/lovers died in the May War to End All Wars... Get over it and move on experiencing things for ourselves rather than reliving the experiences of our parents/aunts/uncles/grandparents/brothers/sisters/lovers.

"Vectre, you are a better speaker then what you give yourself credit for. Just a few tweeks to the way you present your talking and you will be doing very well for yourself.

Indeed, we will probably never see 100% change like I would love to see happen, but why can't we at least try it? I think there are more leaders then the two you just named also, apologies for not no agreeing there. But why must we repeat history this time? Why must the man I use to adore, go down the same path as those before us?

Unless someone tells me a reason on why things MUST be like they were before, then I am not happy. None of these are good enough.

Especially when the power to change it is in the hands of the man who hated it all so badly."

"But Midol, when people do rank and do something about it people shit and piss on their grave. We all have manner and level of respect we hold ourselves to and sometimes those we work with are more important then ourselves. Our feeling and connections with others block our attempts to do what we actually feel.

Call me butt hurt if you like, where you see whining, I see opportunity. Opportunity from a man that has the power to make things better. To change the ways that he hated so badly. A chance to do it carefree and has the power to do so. He is top dog, letting Frank tarnish the greater good of the future of this country.

You can sugarcoat everything you want, you didn't agree with Phil and you didn't feel he was for the best of this world. If you agree to that, then you agree that Frank isn't fitting to run an entire city under his own hands. His arrogance is disgusting and it will always be in there for as long as he alive and in the power position he is currently in. So in all reality, we replaced Sammy and Phil with Frank. Just one of a few things holding us back from breaking into a comfort zone. A zone where we don't have to put up with what we have for the last 400 + days.

But I guess now that the shoes are on the man with the power instead of the late DS and PS, we shouldn't try to change what we hated before?

Please, tell me why."

This thread doesn't deserve any sort of RP what so ever.

You complain and bitch about everything. However, you don't ask the bloodline of Creep for the decisions he made. You also should be thankful anyone provided an explanation for the war. No Godfather has to explain them self to lowly thugs. As previously stated, rank up and do something about it.

It's clear the game needs to rebuild. However it complete honesty this war was for the best. If a Godfather can make so many mistakes in such a short time it saves time. So if anything you should be thanking those for removing a leader who was incompetent to proper decision making. Which ultimately got his city killed. 

" M thank you for the compliment you are a good speaker as well ultimately though the choice to make change lies with the individual and choices our GF's and CL's people they auth represent the future course of these lands and i wish you good luck on your crusade to bring these changes and change the history no MAKE history in these lands and correct the mistakes of CL and GF past i happen to think cpt.harris will learn from this war and change for the better" 

"I really wish you guys would come up with a better explanation to why rather then 'rank up and do something about it'. How original. Here is an idea, how about you quit being fucking hypocrites and quit following in the footsteps of the people you killed then entire population over. How about that?

And also, my speech was way better then the shit half of the leaders give you after a war. Or the one line of bullshit you had to state earlier, obviously not worthy of being acknowledged as you don't have anything creative to say or a good argument/point. Dig deep in your brain and come up with something better.

So let me get this... If a GF makes a mistake, we should murder everyone involved in said city? Instead of just the said idiot himself and give the others a chance, who clearly haven't had the time to even do you any real damage. I know about protecting your city the best you can, but what about the others that aren't idiots like Creep?

Ok take the people that were threats out of the equations. What about those in the obits that were gangsters and goombas that weren't within a family and have NO POSSIBLE WAY of doing shit??? Those people need to die too? Wow... Just wow. You can't even change the little things for the better to get over your own damn ego?

You guys, as I previously stated, are pathetic. World in your hands and opportunity to not be like the people you killed, but yet you don't change one thing about it. It's a waste of talent and opportunity. Shit it out and flush it down the toilet.

Only thing I am butt hurt about is that I am not in your shoes to make these differences. So sorry for faulting me on that."

..."you didn't agree with Phil and you didn't feel he was for the best of this world."

You are correct when you say I didn't agree with Phil.. I wasn't there. My sister,mother, and grandmother were. I was not present to disagree or agree. All I go on is what I've read and heard from those who left journals or the archives of what has been said in the Streets. My opinions are mine. They are not those of my relatives. I find that to be one of the biggest issues people have, the carrying on of their parents' lives rather than living their own and having their own experiences. 

I see sad people running around yelling and waving their arms about stuff that cannot be undone. Things they don't agree with being done. People they hate (For no reason other than their relatives told them to.) continuing on carrying their heads high and for the most part not engaging in the mudslinging and bullshit that some of the offspring of those who fell last night are trying to draw them into. 

I hate to break it to you, but Frank isn't the only person running the show these days. There are other leaders. You need to spend less time obsessing about Frank and more time reaching your OWN goals and improving this doomed world in which we all now reside. 

Just a quick note as this is bugging me as I keep listening and cant help but to interject. You dear Mr. M did not replace the late DeadlySin or Phil_Steak, neither did any of your grandfathers. On the contrary, your paps fought to keep the very same people that you are so easily throwing mud at in position of power.  Now now, I know you there will be some "My bloodline is a loyal one and never betrays it's Crew Leader" and "My ancestors did not like the side they fought on but stuck to the oath they gave"... bullshit. If those guys were the cancer, then Zero McHannon supported than very cancer with all his efforts and as far as I know, till he died. You, as someone coming from that very same lineage, do not get the right to sit here and preach about changing this, changing that and what should be done. Spare us all the "wisdom" that you are so freely spewing out. 

Things ARE NOT as they used to be before, the people who fought to change it and the people that I supported made sure this is a better place to live in. Better for me, better for those around me and most important, better for the majority of the people populating our shores. As for the likes of you, heh, I couldnt give a rat's ass. When you are on the oppressing side, which turns out to be the losing side, well, what can I tell ya? Round up your supporters, pack up and c'est la vie.

I am gonna call you butt hurt, I am gonna call it whining but in the same time I do agree, it is an opportunity indeed. It gives me the chance to practice my public speaking skills and perhaps contribute for the prosperity of the great city of Chicago. In the mean time, you can take a seat. 

This is completely insane. Your argument holds no water.

First of all I wasn't around for the PH/NO take down. None of my ancestors were. So saying anything of the sorts is complete ignorant shit to say the least.

Secondly, this is the mafia. In the mafia when one group of mobsters kills another group they don't say "Hmmmm, I wonder which ones we don't have to kill." Not only that, but those mobsters even if offered to be kept alive should fight for their Godfather. By joining the city he controls as well as his leaders you are loyal to them. If not, YOU ARE A SHITTY MOBSTER.

The fact of the matter is, the leader which a city trusted made mistakes. They all died. Now you're bitching like a little child out here. It's also quite clear that you had zero loyalty to your leaders and especially Godfather.

Its sad really. Many died with honor and understanding to a certain degree. They accepted that their parents are now gone. You however are making the city of Detroit seem like it was a well deserved war.

The reasons aren't good enough? Rank up and do something about it. There's nothing else to say. Other than the fact that you care more about self preservation. Now please apply some rectal morphine because the level of butt hurt you're displaying could be seen across the country.... absolutely pathetic.

However I believe we all remember a time when our kin was killed repetitively by the likes of DS, PS, and co. Everyone hated it right? Yes they did.

 This right there was where it fell down for me. My kin helped fight against DS and PS in the big war.. but even still I can't sit by and watch someone slander DS like that. For all the faults in his reign, I cannot see any evidence that DS stormed in and levelled cities time and again for the lolz.

The situation here isn't at all similar in any manner to anything DS did.

"Yes and these are the streets. The one place where I can voice my opinions and we can talk them out. Maybe even hug it out later. Thank you clearing up your relatives and yourself Midol, although I have a strong feeling you still feel the same way your ancestors did. Even if you did read their journals.

If you would have listened to my speech in full, this isn't just about Frank. This is about the well being of the entire country and my let down of expectations I had for a man and seen things on the same page as. Frankly, it's disappointing. So I thought out a speech and came forward with it. Willing to respond and talk about it. This isn't how Frank has treated my ancestors, because honestly they haven't had that many encounters. However, you are blind to not look at Philly, see Frank running that city, see the way he STILL presents himself, and fucking laugh that he is still standing. The man had a chance to change the way he holds himself and has shit that away by not giving a fuck.

I'm sick of seeing this world having Godfathers like that. My ancestors put up with it for a long time and I feel sorry for the people that will have to continue to put up with it in the future when it can be changed and dealt with.

We can change the way wars are done and protect those who are at no threat. Yet my question still lays on the table to you Midol. Why must it be like this? WHY."

He turns his attention to Kpacumup.

"Good evening. Firstly, I am a firm believer in that there is a smart time to do things and a retarded time to do things. Did Zero alone have the power for change? No, but he was close. Damn close. When my grandfather seen that his main targets had died, Sammy and Phil, then what did he believe in? He believed in his GF, SpaceCowboy. Fought for him and died for him and is content with that and I personally wouldn't change it. My feeling towards SpaceCowboy, how he ran his city and how well he looked over Zero interfered with his true feelings. Any shame in that? Nah. Zero wasn't in the position to change things but if he would lived, he would have been. He would have loved to been the one to change history but it was already completed before his very own eyes.

Someone point out to me where I am being selfish or conceded? This isn't about myself, this is about the future of this world. Piss it away much? You are only following down the same path that is very close to not happening. Have the balls to not go down that road. Have the balls to not be the people you killed. It's hard and it's not easy, but it can be done."

"McDermott, when you can come up with something more creative then rank up and do something, I will then talk to you again. Until then keep blaming it on that one retarded statement that people us when they have nothing else to say.

Alabama, this is similar in quality to the way DS and co were doing things. The people who killed him said they wanted to change things and not be like him. However we are back to the point of letting the hitter kill fucking everything in a war, even those will no position to fight back or help there city. And that is pathetic when we can change that now.

All of you who want to hop on that bandwagon, be my guest. You are all spineless when it comes to thinking and speaking for yourselves. You are spineless to hold the power in your hands and NOT make the small adjustments for the well being of this world.

I shit on all of you."

However we are back to the point of letting the hitter kill fucking everything in a war, even those will no position to fight back or help there city. And that is pathetic when we can change that now.

Since you ignored my point in the coffeeshops, I presume you'll just ignore it here too. But at least it's mot public now.

Frankly, this notion is silly. Creep was the protection for the city of Detroit. When he died, so did their protection. At that point, why the hell do they deserve more protection than the 7-day old guys who we're allowed to shoot? Hmm? Once their protection is gone, they're in the exact same situation. A little more time invested, but the same spot. Do we kill +48s because they're a threat? Not really. We kill them because they aren't worth anything more to us than a notch on a gun. And that's what Detroit became when Creep and every CL was eliminated.

If you don't like it, and you wish everyone in the mafia was nicer and cared more about the people in other cities, then maybe you're a bit too soft for this life. If it really surprises you that these "innocents" (god I hate that word) were killed despite being no threat, then you really don't understand our way of life. Or rather, this way of life is actually turning back into the real mafia again.

Now drop this absurd subject, because it makes you look like you're in America four decades too soon.

However I believe we all remember a time when our kin was killed repetitively by the likes of DS, PS, and co. Everyone hated it right? Yes they did.

One member of my bloodlines was killed during the Great East vs West war by "the likes of DS, PS, and co."

Another one was later welcomed into New Orleans under Jessie Pinkman's grandfather.. And were killed by "the likes of DS, PS, and co."

Then after Phil took over New Orleans he welcomed my very mean and angry relative into his family and did what he could to help her get her start in life.. She appreciated it so much she died for him. There was another there, not under him, but yeah.. That's another story to tell and this is neither the time or the place to do so. However, she was not killed by the "likes of DS, PS, and co."

I don't think those that died at the hands of "DS, PS, and co." hated it.. I think they were able to accept everything that happened as a part of being the way the world works. I wouldn't know as they are DEAD, much like your ancestors that were around back then are.. Unless you're a medium and channel all of those who died over the past year or so, including people that weren't even related to you, don't speak for "everyone" or "all of us".

Now, it is no secret that my foremothers were not fond of how Phil ran things, but they sure as hell didn't go around the Streets the way you have with this discussion. Ranting and raving about ONE leader out of many as if he were the new "One Ring to Rule them All" bearer. I am HOPING that Creep took that cursed thing to the grave with him.

It's not the end of the world. It never is. We just keep on swimming. Keep on swimming.. And we continue living through the words and actions of our children and those that come after them.

As for changing how we protect ourselves, our friends, our family, and our cities? What do you propose?

Allowing those under Made Man to live, rank up within our HQs as if they were there from the start only to turn on us when we need them most or take potshots at those from 'the other side'? Much like what happened in The May War when NY turned on NY and PH turned on PH?  

How about allowing everyone but hitters, leaders, and hands live regardless of rank so they can run around shooting at anything that moves or even worse buy a HQ and go "rogue"?

Do you not understand why things are done the way they are? It's a painful truth to accept I know, but we don't hold hands and sing Kumbaya while eating S'mores around a campfire here. This is "Mafia" not Camp Wannatouchnfeelme.

She inhales deeply and continues.

Oh no, people died. Oh no, their children are mourning. It's happened time and time again and yet, we're all still here.. Some bloodlines as old as time itself. There's mourning. There's revenge. There's bitterness. There attempts at rogue fame.  Then everyone gets over it and starts to do what their parents did, didn't do, wanted to do, or never dreamed of doing.  If you defeat yourself with your own words before you even try then it's not worth being here. We are in a far less "hopeless doomed world because of tyrant leaders who suck" than our parents and grandparents were. 

It's funny, I think last night's takedown (Can't really call it a war.) has brought about more hurt feeling discussions and verbal attacks than The May War did. 

Words of advice that have been passed down from generation to generation in my family. "When you fall down, get back up, brush off your knees, and keep on doing what you do and believing in what you believe in... But don't let your past drag you down to the point you say and do stupid shit because things didn't go the way you wanted them to. A new face is a new life.. Not an extension of whoever gave birth to it."

"First all, with logic like that this country is never going to get better."

Frankly, this notion is silly. Creep was the protection for the city of Detroit. When he died, so did their protection. At that point, why the hell do they deserve more protection than the 7-day old guys who we're allowed to shoot? Hmm? Once their protection is gone, they're in the exact same situation. A little more time invested, but the same spot. Do we kill +48s because they're a threat? Not really. We kill them because they aren't worth anything more to us than a notch on a gun. And that's what Detroit became when Creep and every CL was eliminated.

"That sir, explains my point. Why does it have to be like that? You give me a damn good reason to why and I will satisfied. So just because Creep died we should just kill every dick, moe, and larry in the group? WHY. You can call me butt hurt, you can call me selfish... The truth lays in front of you. Killing them for a simple one to be added to your gun accuracy. That is all this world boils down to and it's a retarded thing to keep doing when we NOW have the power to change it. These rules can go back to the way they were to be adjusted to fit better now that we have the chance.

And yes, I wish people did have a little more heart to them. Is that a bad thing? We are giving Frank a chance, why can't we give those who don't oppose a threat a chance? And by those people I mean those not sponsored or in any position to do damage unless they are caught in the act. Who the fuck can a 24-48 gangster right off the shores shoot to cause the city any real harm? Who can he pro when all of his leaders and anyone eligible to be bold are already dead?

No one.

I will not drop this subject. It was your grandfather who said the streets needed activity. Here I am giving it in better quality of speeches then the likes of Kuku."

"Midol, I might just have that power to talk to the dead. Because I know how they feel and felt at the time. It's an amazing ability. To be honest, I am a bit bored and I seen a problem so I addressed it.

I understand death happens and it happens a lot. Trust me, you are preaching to the choir. I am just saying why can't we change the little things. Are we scared to? I know death will happen a lot of it but lets not take our eyes off the minority of people that I am actually talking about here. I propose that those people actually get a chance as they know they are overpowered and outnumbered with no position to do anything at all. Instead of wasting that person, why not at least take time to approach them? Most of them will be honest with you when literally 80% of their city has died. There were rules long before us that TRIED to prevent these measures, but now that a new rule is in place we just ignore it all.

What happened to trying these things again? Trying to improve instead of constantly doing the things we hated so badly done before us. I get it 'that is just the way it is'. Yeah it is because the leaders allow it and you guys follow in place only thinking about your kill on someone who has been in their house for three days and shows no sign of danger. Until they show those signs, they should be given a chance. In all reality, none of them even have the position to do anything to retaliate.

It's a small problem and a huge problem at the same time. Just needs redone to fit better. We have a 'smart' group of GF's out there no? Why not let them come up with something more reasonable?

Here is the chance. But yet, it will be ignored."