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| Additional Taxing Statistic | Started by: DeadlySpikeS on Aug 27, '13 06:42 |
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In my experience, the game change regarding crew taxes has been a double edged sword. The argument for it causing more engagement between crewleaders and players is definitely a plus, and definitely valid. I liked its addition to the game. However, I have found that players have lost the real concept of tributes and taxes as it is hard to blatantly state that things are owed without mid to extreme levels of punishment. To be clear, I am not arguing for the removal of the feature, and the re-implementation of the automated tax system by any means. That would remove the aforementioned benefit, and a good feature. What I am arguing for is simply an added statistic within the taxes page. It is very hard for a crewleader to judge a player's actual activity, and it would be wrong for a crewleader to punish a passive player (with possibly a high rank), for lack of tribute/taxes. We are very limited in our choices of punishment (Kill, Demote, and Removal of Gun). We cannot jail our members like the NPC Mayor might when his taxes are left unpaid, and nor should we be able to as this would cause far too many conflicts. I would also like to add that the taxes page perhaps should be made a bit more accessible to users, new or old alike, under the Manage drop down menu. It would also be nice to get an alert in a crewleader's personals when taxes are paid as we do when we are given tributes. My main suggestion is as follows: I believe that either a percentage of taxes paid or an exact number of taxes owed should be added to the grid, possibly something similar to the voting levels. This will allow crewleaders to have a better judgement of what their members are actually doing, and it will not interfere with the increased interaction between crewleaders and members regarding collecting tribute. Also, it will prevent ignorant punishments being dealt out which could lead to several negative effects. If anyone has anything to add or argue, the floor is open starting.... Now. |
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I agre with this, its hard to see how active peoples are and taxes/tribut are the thing that keep the family's going Maybe the memebers can get an alert in the personals also when they pass 300k that they own in taxes just as a reminder if they have forgoten it since you only can pay taxes once pr 20 hours |
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| Reply by: _Rogue_ at Aug 27, '13 07:02 | |
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I agree with all this too with being able to see who owes what from within the family. I also agree with being notified when someone has kicked up. Would make life a lot easier for the crewleaders too with the running of our families and assessing our members more accurately. |
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| Reply by: Lush at Aug 27, '13 07:15 | |
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Part of the reasoning behind the new structure of taxes and tributes has to do with realism. As it is right now, I don't really see a problem with it - it gives the user the freedom to participate in the time honoured, much fabled tradition of holding back cash. Adding a stat to this effect completely removes the anonymity and honesty system that was introduced with the tax overhaul, and doesn't leave anything other than the fact that users have to manually pay for their taxes. While the new tax system does take out some power out of the crewleaders hands, if a crewleader relies on taxes heavily for their income, it does force the leader to level with/show a bit of trust towards their members dealings in regards to their finances. I think that's a plus, so I'm not very keen on taking on this feature. If punishment wants to be doled out financially, a set fine that can be directly transferred to someone's account is more than feasible. |
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| Reply by: Solastalgia at Aug 27, '13 08:13 | |
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Well, if we wanted to stick to realism, as a boss, we would be made more aware of our members' work. We would be informed of this in some way... we would witness it, and sadly a vote score doesn't tell us this at all. In regards to punishment, I don't see crewleaders taking extreme action against non-tributing members, and I wouldn't expect them to particularly. In the scope of realism, we can't always just kill off people. It will scare people away into inactivity or from the game entirely. This is more of a suggestion for new players as they are unfamiliar with the way our old system worked, and I think it would just expedite their learning process, rather than through punishment. I understand that it's meant to be based on an honor system, but I feel that there should be some sort of gauge to tell us how much they're actually doing. If people don't agree with giving a statistic based on earnings... Maybe something similar to prowess? I don't think a fine would work too well as it would be hard to set a direct number, and it might take money away when someone doesn't even have it. |
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| Reply by: DeadlySpikeS at Aug 27, '13 08:34 | |
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A percentage paid, or exact amount owed, would be way too precise of a measure for a CL to have. There's no way a boss would know that sort of thing, and it would make it way too similar to the old mandatory taxation system. All it would do is add the extra paperwork of CLs recording data every couple days to figure out whether there's a match. On the other hand, even a boss who doesn't pay a ton of attention to his crew will know a bit of basic data about what his members have been up to, if anything. What about adding "Hours played in the last [time period]" to the crew page? That would be roughly analogous to the indirect information you'd have in the real world. |
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| Reply by: Drunky at Aug 28, '13 01:21 | |
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I had the same thought as Drunky. Adding the "Hours played in the last 24" would be a huge benefit. Not just for taxation purposes but for generally crew activity as well. |
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| Reply by: Toberius at Aug 28, '13 04:01 | |
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I think that it would be a fair option, but then why not give total hours (at least while in the crew)? |
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| Reply by: DeadlySpikeS at Aug 28, '13 04:45 | |
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Because then you can easily start doing time calculations. That'd be too close. Drunky got it right. |
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| Reply by: Arya at Sep 30, '13 10:44 | |
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Here is some thinking outside the box. What if there was an option for the taxes to be paid not to the CL, but to a designated member of the family. This does a couple of things: 1. Improves realism. Mob Bosses didn't get paid directly by their underlings. They distanced themselves from the money for obvious reasons. 2. This opens up the idea of a bookkeeper within the family. One person (not the CL unless they want to do it themselves) gets all the taxes, compiles a report as to who is paying how often, and forwards the report (and cash if the CL wants it) up the chain. Advantages of a bookkeeper are already spelled out by me in this forum: http://mafiareturns.com/comm/thread/364674#5135118. This idea of paying taxes to a person who's job it is to compile that data would add to those advantages. TL;DR Pay taxes to a bookkeeper instead of CL. That person compiles any stats the CL wants. CL has info, game is more realistic. Thoughts? |
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| Reply by: JonnyBeRed at Oct 12, '13 18:16 | |
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I think things are good the way they are, with the data kept hidden. Some time ago I took a break. Mainly because I had a lot to do and as happens RL needed more time. But I cannot deny another reason I went for the leave was that I had for two weeks been at 45 units. With 45 units I was sat waiting for a promotion to Don. Now I fully understand and accept that promotions are at the digression of the crew leader and Godfather. What was annoying though was the constant stream of messages asking for shot reports and tributes. I found it a little unfair that I was being asked for money, when money was in a way being held back from me (% increase of MUC), I found it unfair I was being held back, and in a war I would have no doubt sacrificed my life for the higher crew members that held me back. I found it unfair when I lost my DFP because of crew leaders moving me around all the time and not warning me. But most of all I found it unfair that I could not do anything about it, other than retire and take some time away from the site. Would have been nice back then to have a feature like this. |
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| Reply by: Son_of_a_bomb at Oct 14, '13 08:20 | |
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