I will push it a bit further on the us going soft

when did it become ok to question the dead as we know we never hear from those really who retire? they have payed the price as we know.

When did it become ok to breach omerta or is it ok in your mind as an associate as we all know the person in question?  even though the future of the family?

I was even surprised by the reaction by cray when commented on how many mistakes this person had made and still kept progressing?

"I'm pretty sure I stated as follows"

 I'm just going to say that the event in which I'm ranting about I shall not speak directly of, for I am a firm believer in Omerta. Some may know and others will not. However the point can probably be made for a lot of similar situations that many in this world can relate too and speak on.

"I used an event unnamed as an example. No names were made public and nothing was directed to anyone in particular. Your staying you happen to know "the event" that I am speaking of however you toss Cray's name in the mix. Yet he wasn't even involved in such event you may be referring too.  If your wanting to specify that event, honestly when people screw and when it doesn't mess with the integrity of the family directly why kill them and not let them learn from mistakes? In that situation he clearly didn't and the results were what came. I don't see how Cray's comments could raise questions too someone it doesn't pertain too. Does it state what the mistakes were and how severe? Absolutely not. I even stated the following."

I mean obviously if this "theoretic" mobster feels he is justified to be upset after such craziness, then he must feel that he was not in the wrong at all.

"Some of you knew the incident some didn't. Moreover; to accuse me of calling anyone out when I clearly made it known that I was not using anyone in particular and clearly making it heard that the situation has been seen before is just self arousal on your own behalf. Your not doing any justice by attempting to make this presence seem as if I'm not practicing proper guidelines and/or being out of line. It's just ridiculous that it continues to be made to look as such."

"As far as questioning the dead. Are you serious? Aftermath of War threads is what exactly? Speaking about the living and the mistakes they made? Ok then to justify your reasoning everyone should make a prewar speech, "I just want to let you know that Delaware is about to be taken out for the reasons. Don't tell them I don't want them to know. Enjoy the show." Let's just change practices because certain people disagree with others. Now I appreciate your theory on the actual discussion I was attempting with this speech to begin with, but to attack my intentions in doing so is beating a dead horse." 

Mistakes bring down families, we have seen it many times before as someone is always keeping tabs.

Quite simply long ago the war threads and reasons never happend for this reason, the person and often upper structure was taken out and that was the end of it.  Whoever shot them said Rest in Peace and that was the end of it.  No bitching and crying post war, no posters, conversations etc except for a protection order.

Rhakios returned to the scene holding a burrito that he retrieved from around the block. When he came back, he noticed people were still talking and one directly at himself.

"Boss you say? Boss works for me too, Philli. Because lets face it, you're wrong... Rank matters everywhere."

He cleared his throat and ate his burrito before responding back to the man who singled him out.

"Call me a fool to my face and public you say? What exactly makes me a fool, Philli, since you are being extremely vague on that point. Am I an idiot for thinking this speech was completely garbage? Or because I commented on it myself of thus garbage? Preaching respect, but not showing any to the death of the man in question. Talking so poorly of this man, but yet... How did this man reach the rank of Consig? What exactly did he do to earn it? This speech?

Instead of pointing the finger at this solo dead man, I can't... I have to point it other places. That makes me a fool?"

Rhakios laughs softly to himself.

"Riddle me that, Philli."

I agree somewhat with BackToShootPeeps about our community being soft, but this is nothing new. My relatives have watched certain people get away with things over the years others get punished for. Here on the streets we've heard certain individuals be outspoken and blunt. It's chalked up as that's just how they are, that's just how they talk or they like to shake things up. I'm okay with all that. I like when people are blunt and honest. What I don't like is when others were the same way they were told to ask the Gods to remove their statements or asked not to comment on certain topics others passionately debated. I haven't heard of this happening recently. It's just things I heard happened in the past.

Regarding a statement I made about an individual, it pretty much shows how tired I am of people being given chances over and over again. I'll use the same words I used during another conversation I had about this, not punishing people when they do wrong leads to them acting like spoiled brats. It also gives the impression to other members they can get away with the same thing without consequences. This is not going to happen in my HQ. I'll do anything I can to help my member and I'm fiercely protective of people who work with me, but if one of them steps out of line I have no problem punishing them. I expect rules to be followed and members to conduct them as respectful mobsters.

Finally about the original topic, I like a little bit of attitude and love a little bit of crazy, but I have a low tolerance for cockiness. I've heard young unsponsored criminals looking for a family say, "Impress me." or something similar. I don't waste my time trying to recruit people like this. In my opinion youngsters should be impressing leaders and recruiters, not the other way around. I'm a mobster not a magician or circus performer.

Philli looks steadily at Rhakios.

"Rhakios, My calling you a fool, was due to you coming out here, and responding to a thread you deemed "complaining" by complaining some more. And then, you tossed off the thread as being "just another wise guys [thread]". I have an issue with that, because, although you are correct, rank matters in all aspects of this life, It should never be used to suggest that someones work has no merit. If the work of a gangster, or a goomba, or a wise guy has no merit, then how do they become the made men of these families? are you saying they earn that without doing anything of merit? If so, then you truly are a fool. 

Rank matters. But more important then rank, perhaps the single most important thing to each of us, is respect. And sir, i called you a fool, because you failed to show the respect due to a fellow human, regardless of rank. and by attacking this speech based on the rank of the speaker, you take away from the work of all associates who speak, and discourage those who might otherwise become great speakers. That, is a true tragedy. 

So yes Mister Rhakios, I put it to you that by attacking the speaker based on rank, instead of taking on his opinions, you are a fool."

Philli begins to walk away, then stops and turns back.

"you speak of a consigliere who is dead. When wigglebutt spoke, there was no mention of any such person. You may know the exact situation that brought this speech here, but i do not. I can only reply to this thread in the general terms with which it applys to me."

Philli turns and disappears around a corner.

"I didn't attack the speaker based off rank, I based it off a shit speech. One that shouldn't have even been brought to streets due to omerta. And many other reasons that I have already stated that annoyed me. So don't try to give me the picky stuff about mentioning the guy was a Wise Guy. When in fact, the man who this speech is about was a Consig. You find it wrong I give this speech no merit? That's fine, but at least I can come out here and say that. I don't give it any merit, I think my statements have pretty much summed that up. I even had a discussion with the individual giving the speech, I told him I didn't like it. I like some of his other work, but no, sorry, I can't give this merit because it goes against what I would assume are my beliefs and opinions. (For again, reasons already stated)

At least I'm sitting here calling you a fool, having to name to call to make myself seem cool or feel like I've accomplished something with a little trash talk. I don't have to call you names when I can pick apart everything you're wrong about around you. So if you have a problem with me voicing my opinion that I didn't find this speech nessecary and found it offensive to what he was trying to get across, I suggest you take it up with someone else. There doesn't have to be mention of the person's name, anyone with half a brain fart can obviously see who he was talking about.

You want to talk about respect, Philli? I might have downgraded the speech, but you're the only coming out here with your first words calling me a fool several times. What exactly are you trying to accomplish? You think those words are going to bring me down to my knees and tears? You're just trying to provoke me and my opinions clashing with another person. I hated the speech, sue me. I think he can do better and without breaking omerta, contridicting respect, and be counter productive of putting his family in negative light for prematurely ranking someone who they have come to terms now, wasn't the right choice.

So sorry, I didn't give everyone a hug, nod my head in agreement with everyone, and start passing out free cookies. Because in my eyes, this speech is no better than the man who did things so wrongly that ended his own life. Since when did two wrongs make things right?"

"Ok now your just flinging shit into the air in hope it lands in your favor."

I didn't attack the speaker based off rank, I based it off a shit speech. One that shouldn't have even been brought to streets due to omerta.

"You have got to be fucking kidding me? I have been kind up until now but you making excuses as to why you feel it is a shit speech is rather agitating. I specifically stated I would bring no names, and not directly speak of the situation in this speech due to just that. You are the one making it known to the world as to what exactly it is reference too. Want to speak of Omerta?" 

"Your talents to try to create a debacle is laughable at best. You remind me of a certain Kuklinski. Ranting, raving, with no basis at all other then in your own opinion, which in this case it's a shit speech. A shit speech that mind you has received a decent number of thought out responses. Those individuals didn't feel it was that shitty for they gave constructive criticism. So basically in your opinion, they are shit for feeling this shitty speech was worth responding and actually putting their two cents in?"

"This is exactly how shit gets started. People taking shit and putting their own spin on it. Because there happened to be a incident I felt was actually worth debating due to end result, regardless of your taste or not,  I break Omerta? Get real. I have shown respect to you throughout this for the most part, which I had no reason even doing after the disrespect you had shown me but I refuse to stand here and be attacked because of your inability to have an open mind rather than assuming the negative. If you didn't care for it, then as I have stated before, a simple say so or even better, refraining from even making an appearance would have sufficed."

"Mobsters like you create issues out of non existing issues to begin with. You have drawn this into something that has no legit ground by assuming Omerta has been broken, that I'm slandering the dead, that I'm being disrespectful to my own family, and that I am shining a negative light on my head quarters. That is just rubbish you know better. Assuming you really are ignorant, you should still have a bit of common sense to stay away from a topic you despise. Honestly, your making an ass of yourself being your defenses have changed drastically have no bearing at all. You pulled a mobster I highly respected inpeeps to this debate of pure nonsense. Maybe not by means of asking, but because he's doing what he believes is right, defending his family members."

"Your bloodline has a recently done this too my own in a prior life. So if there is a reason for it then take it up with me in person. Now however, your beginning to question your own integrity and foolishly arguing with another respected Mafioso such as Stein, from your own city mind you. I guess your bloodline has a history of turning it's back on fellow city members. Just saying. Now if you would care to refrain from making an attack such as breaking Omerta or disrespecting a mobster who I just learned made a bigger ass of himself then let on at first, I would highly appreciate it. Because this merry-go-round is making me motion sick. Would hate to dirty your clothes."

"Eh don't start blaming this on bloodline things, it has nothing to do with this. Talk about reach for shit in the air. You don't know a fucking thing about my bloodline besides what you know in the old PH, that's all. So don't act like I turn my back on my city members at the drop of a coin just to do it or act like you know what I'm like. You don't know shit about the person I am, just like I don't know shit about the person you are. Fact of it is, you don't know fuck all about what my bloodline has and hasn't done. Nor will I even bring that up, because it has nothing to do with today or now.

I've never made any excuses, I've only brought what I've thought and believed in to the streets. I didn't have to make reference to the person at hand, when you clearly described them for me. I'm not part of your district or city, I shouldn't know who that person is, nor did I. Your speech, pointed me towards that person. Why? Because it was clear as day who you were talking about and you brought this topic to the streets, pointing out this individual, while not mentioning them by name. Talking about how they didn't show respect, but you're pissing all over him in your speech. Something that would have been better left off not even talked about, rather then coming out here and making this kind of scene open to the public, instead of being a good boy and letting your upper structure handle this the way they wanted. Not put on a stage for everyone and their mothers to see and comment about. That's omerta. Thing you're talking about that you shouldn't. I didn't need a name, I just needed my brain to put the pieces together in about 2 seconds. So, since you feel like speaking for everyone, tell me... How did this man that you are pissing on achieve Consig?

Shit like this starts because you brought it to the street to begin with. If you didn't want comment on it, you shouldn't have brought it out here. Everything that was actually suppose to maybe be taken serious in your thread all went away when you contracted everything you said, but doing just the same. If you were looking for a debate, you've obviously found one. Or you can go off to the side and keep blaming it on how much my bloodline is suppose to hate you. That, or you can start speaking facts that someone came along that didn't appreciate what you did here. Yes, omerta. There is nothing to open my mind about when this is a conversation that should be held within your own camp. Instead of just listening to your speech and duct taping my mouth, I spoke up. So don't be so sensitive. You came to the streets with this, you already know when you open a speech it's open to all comment, good or bad. You're pissy because you thought your were doing some right and giving a good debatable speech here, but in all reality you're talking about shit you shouldn't even talk about. If you didn't want to single out that man, maybe you should have waited some time before speaking about him. Time enough so that people that did notice it, didn't think about it anymore. I didn't need your shit speech of an explanation, I had one from you crewleader herself. One I understood and agreed with her on. Your speech? I don't agree with. So, I came out here to say so. Suck it up, buttercup.

Mobsters like me create issues? Funny you say that. Since you know my bloodline oh so well, you would have known that it's not normally one to cause a lot of problems or drama between people. But you knew that right? Since you can talk about me so openly with so much confidence that you have me read like a book? You spoke at the mans funeral, showing your dissatisfaction in him, yet you have to make a speech about him and the event that took place? Preach respect? That's laughable. You're pissing on this guy. Making a joke of it. I'm not twisting anything, it's how I see it. The only real problem I see here is, 'How did this man achieve the rank of consig if they're going to piss on him like that'. That's what puts your family in negative light with this speech. Something that is often laughed about, when it should be. So are you calling your CL a bad or misguided CL for prematurally promoting someone that shouldn't have been there? I like your CL, so I'd like to say not, but your speech makes me question your intentions of that, which are clearly quite opposite of what your CL was trying to do. I'm not making an ass out of myself, I'm stating the realistic facts of all this. You can call my debates and speeches pure nonsense, but if you really want to compare... Your wonderful speech called 'OmFgHiLmSW - Yeah it's like that', oh my... what a speech. But I'm the one that speaks nonsense? You're the one not accomplishing anything whatsoever from this speech besides ticking me off enough to  keep coming back which in turn helps the dealers recognize you and give you more drugs to carry. Your speech never deserved this kind of attention.

Or you can keep pulling the 'cry cry cry, his bloodline hates me and always does this' card. 'Omg, you're making an ass out of yourself'.

Please, it gets old. Instead of blaming my bloodline for opposing your speech, why don't you try and do a better job of explaining why you in any terms seen this speech as proper to give to the streets. You posted this speech, which I see that leads to nothing but trouble, and you're finding it as a way to blame me for that. You're the one who brought this to the public! And I can appreciate Philli's opinion without going back and forth with name calling or calling each other a 'fool'. When clearly, neither one of us are a fool in any sense. He just likes to put on a tough guy tee shirt every now and then I guess.

Soooo.... Blame my bloodline for the curse of all these things he does to you again please? How I'm just out to get you. How I'm solely picking on you. My ass hole of a making himself bloodline. The one you know so much about."

Oh snap. I actually think, considering the circumstances, the mobster in question took the most "honourable" and "respectful" way out.

You suggest in your guide that they should have:

"Develop a time machine, go back and train your gun on your previous bloodline who was responsible for your spawn."

So you're suggesting that they should have developed a gun why? So they can rogue out and die, costing your crew leader a probably hefty amount in compensation? Not to mention it could create tensions that weren't previously there between your family the victims family. Or are you suggesting they train a gun so they can shoot their own crew leader/hand, especially since the removal of forts for fellow crew members. How would that be any better for you or your family?

I'm all for getting inspiration from real life and recent events to bring to the streets, but calling out and mocking a dead man is easy. Yet when his son returns the favour via a rather unusual name on his birth certificate, you want him struck down with Godly intervention.

Beason shrugs

"Develop a time machine, go back and train your gun on your previous bloodline who was responsible for your spawn."

"If you failed to get the sarcasm out of it then I apologize. As for as having godly intervention that has nothing to do with me. I don't control the gods decisions nor do I ever request such." 

'cry cry cry, his bloodline hates me and always does this' card. 'Omg, you're making an ass out of yourself'.

"I don't seem me crying. I am simply stating that if there was one, then your more then welcome to drop me a line personally."

You don't know a fucking thing about my bloodline besides what you know in the old PH, that's all.

 "Your right when you state you don't know fuck all about me, or else you'd know I am well aware of your work. But I won't get in a pissing match about that, because you are right that is far from the point. Your the one that took it out of line when clearly you had no reason to do so. You state your curiosity of how he made it to consig so on so forth. That wasn't brought up either, and that obviously isn't what made you speak up because initially it was a yawn and a departure. You've had some time to think about it and speak what you believe you can use to make this make sense to you and anyone else that agree's. I've struct a nerve apparently so the feeling is mutual. You can go on about your business from this point on knowing you have been understood and loved. Because I love you."

"I do know one thing, if this was an issue at hand, then I'm sure I would have been told so. My CL contacted you, that's marvelous. Being not all of the Mafia world is as in depth as you my friend, they most likely had no idea as too what was being spoken of outside of my example, that was the target audience. Not someone that was so intrigued that the had to contact other families for answers. Your kind gesture of crying "Omerta" and "Disrepect" brought it too light. Not everyone stares at the graveyard and contacts CL's with questions and concerns. Go ahead, take it as a personal shot. I have yet to whine, bitch or complain. However if I believe in something I will stand up for it. That's who I am. So now you know. If you make accusations of wrong doings then I would like to know how, you shared that thought, despite me not given the nod of agreement as to your justification of such I do respect it. I do love the debate, when it's a debate. This has turned into an argument, a war of words, not a debate. You didn't come here for debate, you came to disrespect and try to justify it. It's the last time I speak to you about this as I have made my opinions on yours more then enough times. You have made it clear you don't care for my public appearances and that is fine with me. I don't do it for you, I do it for me and for those who do enjoy it. Not everyone likes tea my dear, but it doesn't solve anything by shitting in the kettle." 

"Thank you kindly Kerry. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts."

​AlexMoran was twisting and turning in mid air...he was practicing ballet or at least that is what he said to himself. All of a sudden he heard a very familiar voice. He rushed to the scene and he heard a full on debate based on dear WiggleButt's speech which somehow had grown to back stabbing foolish bloodlines...moving on.

Ohai WiggleButt..let me start off with addressing your initial questions, shall I? 

Is this really what some Mafioso's feel is alright?

Like...obv,brah.

Have we as a whole become too soft? Not forcing those to obey and often allowing them to slide?

Actually... and I am sure that I am a part of the minority here, I don't think we as whole have become too soft. There will always be hardasses who stick to the rules and there will always be soft and kind people who will bend it from time to time for you.There was a CL way back in Mariettan times( so kewl,right? Like Victorian times. I am sosmart.) who let one of my blood get away not only with massive disrespect but even taking a potshot at one of his/her bodyguards. Stunning. I know,right? Of course, there was no thread debating whether she had gone soft because well...it was our little secret. 

I am sure most of you are waiting for me to make an actual point so here goes..there are people around now who if given the mantle of Crew Leader would run one of the tightest ships in the world and some of them already are Crew Leaders... it's just that in this day and time people prefer someone who is more understanding(?) and someone who gives them a longer leash. I wouldn't call it the community becoming soft..rather I'd call it the new blood coming into this world seem to prefer someone who is 'soft' rather than someone who runs things by the book.

Also you specified that if I had a suggestion about how to change this....situation. I honestly don't think this situation needs changing. Yes, I understand the importance of rose tinted nostalgic glasses but personally... I find this scenario to be a much more entertaining one with Gangsters thinking they can dictate terms to Dons...and at times actually doing it.

Now onward and upward to the more entertaining section of this debacle(debate? always get those two confused)..it seems to me, from a third person's point of view that Rhakios said pretty much the same thing Cantillion said...'Why do you wish to give such an obvious attention seeker some more attention?' yet Rhakios apparently yawned and that is cited by you, dear Wiggly, as obvious disrespect and then you go on to slate him for 'hating on' your bloodline. Now...if I was you..I would have assumed Rhakios was yawning simply because of the effort it goes into running 3 or 4 third rather businesses across this world but you chose to assume it was disrespect..maybe because it was Rhakios...the guy from the same bloodline as Timon..was doing it. In that case, Pot(Plis can I call you Pot..mainly cuz we all love it 420BlazeItHomeboySWAG) meet Kettle(Yeah, sorry, Rhakios..I got nothing cool to go with Kettle) 

Yeah, sorry, Rhakios..I got nothing cool to go with Kettle

"Yes defend your buddy and hop into something that you have bearing on which you made apparent. Thank you for trying."

Aww...you're welcome, Wiggly. I do try.So hard. Primarily to impress your Wigglyness. 

Anyway... I find it insanely funny that you disregard my lyrical masterpiece of a response as just a defend your buddy kinda thingy. Maybe take the effort to fucking read(or listen depending on how you want to view this debacle..as speech or a series of angry mobsters writing down their views) would you? or is that something only the soft ones do? 

I have made it apparent that I have some bearing in this beautifully disguised nostalgic and romanticized version of the 'good old days'? Fucking awesome. Always wanted to have some bearing.

"Don't get me wrong you had me rather interested, until you made it a point to declare the reason for being in the discussion. I like my responses light and with a bit of tender loving care in my ear. It get's me all hot and bothered."

Guys I think it's time we take some candles, grab a guitar and sing some cumbaya kay? :) Let us all give peace a chance!! :) oh and laugh at wigglebutt's suit :)

What ever happened to taking it on the chin? Rhakios for instance seems to take balls on his chin on a daily basis.

Well, that escalated quickly. And yet, the same guy who was sucking me off in a speech just days before.

Sucking people off? balls on chins? guys these are the streets!! A place that should have respect and community for us mobsters. The words being used here are just vulgar and beneath such upstanding individuals as you guys. Please guys give peace a chance I am here to help each of you in your quest to beat your demons!!!