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| Lost In Translation: A Discussion | Started by: Phantom-Ghost on Dec 23, '08 13:50 |
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Phantom-Ghost walks around the corner with a couple of men, greeting those he's familiar with as he passes. Taking a drag of his cigarette and reeking of beer, he passes the Harrison stop on the red line subway. A few people are gathered about just talking and he pauses to finish his smoke before going down into the station. As he's sitting there he can't help but overhear the talking of a few thugs around the corner. He cranes his neck to get a better listen. u need u sum monies? One of them asks. jus go nock over the 711! Another exclaims. buy sum coke in det! One suggests. i hope he let me in hiz cru. One hopes. Phantom stops, raises an eyebrow, and flicks his cigarette. What is this gibberish? Phantom-Ghost, now being watched by the people who were talking near him, as well as those he addressed earlier, decides to use the crowd to his advantage. Do you hear these guys? We all know the type. Fresh off the boat, new on our shores, etc. You all are probably asking yourselves: Sure, sure, so what? Well, allow me to break some news to you. These citizens are the future of this thing of ours. We should treat them as such. Allow me to explain: I had a civilian come up to me the other day and ask for employment. He spoke in gibberish, just like the thugs around the corner. To be honest, I couldn't tell much of a difference between the two. I pulled the kid around the corner and offered him a cigarette. We talked much like any family head does when he's speaking to potential members. When I asked him how long his family line had been around, the answer astounded me. "1 yr" came the reply. I was skeptical, so I asked him a few questions about life a year ago. Who was in power and that kind of thing. All the answers were valid. Again, again, you're all probably like: So? The problem with this is just that. No one takes the time to "train" these members in more than just robbing stores and running drugs. These are potentially, and are in the process of becoming the future of our youth. If we teach them to speak our language, we've taught them a lifestyle. The little thug I talked to is now earning, and contributing in my headquarters. He also speaks our language. It is a beautiful thing to see, and I'm glad I helped make it happen. Phantom-Ghost turns to the other group now watching him, which now includes the very thugs he was eavesdropping on just moments earlier. What do you all think? Those who speak this "gibberish". Are most of them a lost cause? Do you find it disrespectful when you're spoken to in the "gibberish" language? Do you find a common theme with those who speak this? Should they be taught, or let fizzle out? Phantom sweeps his arm in a motion toward the spot he was standing, allowing for anyone else to take the stage and speak their mind. |
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Steps up for his time to speak. I feel that most of those who speak this "gibberish" fall on deaf ears. Not to say I don't take the time out to properly train those whom I believe need to be trained, I can say I am not here to be an instructor of our linguistics. If I am approached by words like those I simply tell them to shape up their language when speaking to me for they should have learned growing up how to speak correctly. Now the fact that he had been here a full year astounds me. Usually he would have met up with someone like us who would tell them that talking like that will not get them anywhere here. I fear that the youth of our shores may need to have some ground rules on how to interact with others correctly in order to receive the most benefit. Pulls out a cigar, lights it, and blows three smoke rings. It comes down to this my young thugs, if you wish to be accepted amongst the elite of our world then you must act as if you are an elite mafioso yourself. Take a hint from the way the speak, from the way they act, all of this should be what you are striving for. I by no means think we should all emulate them directly. You should still be yourself, just in the style of what is commonly accepted amongst our society. We are a social group, we have our own language. Just like an anthropologist, in order to be accepted amongst the group you must do as they do where appropriate. Speak like a mafioso, act like a mafioso, and god dammit you will be a mafioso. Steps back to hear further input. |
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| Reply by: ProphetOfDeath at Dec 23, '08 14:04 | |
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Slamming his spent cigarette onto the ground as is his fashion, DontCall-ItAComeback steps to where his Crew Leader had just been speaking to share his two cents. Being a bit nervous as this is his first public appearance, and knowing from his fathers before him that sometimes speaking your mind in these streets can be tough, he takes a swig of Jameson from his hip flask before opening his mouth I agree with you completely sir. I haven't had the chance to do likewise just yet, but my fathers had in their quotes a message to the effect of them hating what IM culture has done to the implementation of the Engilsh language. Most of them will change, begrudgingly, just to make their higher ups happy, but what they don't understand all too often, is that it isn't us "veterans" being picky, but taking time to type out your words instead of talking "lyke dis ya no?" is a sign of respect not just to your boss, but to everyone in this thing of ours. Although, now since I have a long name and I just make it into an acronym, I make it a point to sign every MM and comment I leave, not out of habit, not to suck up, but as a sign of respect to every mafioso I come in contact with in these streets. This is a wonderful world where we quite often weed out the rifraff and only keep around the best and the brightest, but we will always need young members as well, and it's high time everyone make a conscious effort to teach each and every player who "tlks lyke dis" that anywhere else, they are free to doe as they please, but in this world of ours, that's a sign of total disrespect and laziness, and will be seen and treated as such. That's my opinion anyway Lighting a new cigarette as he blends back in to the crowd behind Phantom-Ghost, his Crew Leader, DontCall-ItAComeback watches intently to see what else others may have to offer. |
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| Reply by: DontCall-ItAComeback at Dec 23, '08 14:08 | |
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Personally, I treat such "gibberish" as no different from informal language and other slang. Kids these days are always coming up with new ways to speak, and that's just the latest fad. Being informal language doesn't mean you can use it in any situation, though. Certainly if you are going to speak with the head of a family for the first time, it is unambiguously inappropriate. Once you get to know someone, it becomes less of an issue. First impressions are the important part. If you walk up to me for the first time speaking that way, asking for a loan? I'm going to assume you mean "gift" not "loan," because no one who is good for paying back their money is going to be unable to string words together. In the past when people walked up to me looking for an invite speaking that way, I might have just plain ignored it, or they might get lucky and I'd 'just' grill them far more intensely than I would a proper-speaking fellow. As far as teaching fellows goes, I follow the old saying to the word: "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." I'll politely mention it once in a while, or rant in general terms from time to time at more egregious violations, but won't dwell on it. If someone can't figure it out for themselves or with a non-directed prompt, they're not going to listen when someone chides them for the behavior directly, either. And in any case it's a darned good way to weed out who not to send money or invites to. |
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| Reply by: Muqtada at Dec 23, '08 14:21 | |
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Muqtada, I enjoy your usage of grill there and I was curious: Are you coming to the barbecue later? |
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| Reply by: RourkeyRourke at Dec 23, '08 14:23 | |
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| RourkyRourke, thanks for letting me know about a barbecue I wasn't invited to. Now I'm get to be mopey all day. | |
| Reply by: Muqtada at Dec 23, '08 14:27 | |
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Darkhawk764 walks up, flicking away his cigarette and straightening his double-breasted coat. He looks out over his audience, who waited for him to speak. Smaller than those at the club he spoke to. Those people talking in, what they so affectionatly refer to as '1337speek', or 'Leetspeak', also translated to elite speak, the computer language, hurts his ears. Thanks for everyone that has gathered here. Boss, thanks for opening the wound I have so long meant to bleed out. What the hell is wrong with these people whom I refer to as 'eliters', in a bad way, that they cannot say "Sir, may I borrow a couple of hundred dollars? Gotta pay bills." or "I am thinking about going to Detroit to buy some cocaine." I mean, I believe it's a plague, and if this is the future of this thing of ours, I will personally put the bullet in my skull, and anyone else who asks. |
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| Reply by: Darkhawk764 at Dec 23, '08 14:48 | |
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Awesome, who had been following Phantom-Ghost around all day to learn the secrets of how to walk like a capo crimine, could not believe his eyes. He was shocked and awed and horrified and appalled. If these people were children, he would have shot them in the face by now and set their parents on fire. And then played fetch with the dogs. Because he likes animals. But he would have played fetch with the heads of the youngest of the children. Because he doesn't like children. Especially young children. Oh. My. Awesome. Why are you all smoking? It's so bad for you. Inhaling smoke? Come on. Common sense, people. And it smells. And stains. And tastes horrible, from what I've heard. Seriously, stop it now! Awesome pouts, but then decides to join in the conversation. In my personal and awesome and therefore correct opinion, bad language should be eradicated and good language promoted. And, here's some intelligent stuff for a change; language is the building block of consciousness. We must have language to think. And poor, sloppy language leads to poor, sloppy thinking. Awesome pauses. Then continues. And, of course, good language allows for easier communication. Bad language is almost like foreign language. Or if not foreign; overly ambiguous language. Correct grammar is a necessity. Plus, for those who speak poorly, it reflects poorly on their character. Even to those who might know them. Bad language is the appearance of low intelligence. True story. Awesome jumps into the shadows and hides so that he might successfully stalk Phantom-Ghost once more and learn the secrets of how to talk like a capo crimine. |
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| Reply by: Awesome at Dec 23, '08 15:14 | |
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Walking through the streets, Hayley hears a subject of interest being talked about. She heads closer to the front to listen. Having some strong feelings about this, she speaks. This is something that I have always tried to do...educate our young ones. As you said, they are the future of our world. We need to take them in and teach them the correct ways of our world. I have seen in the past, many of these young mafioso just pushed away because they cannot speak properly. But how can they learn if we do not take the time to show them. They will forever wander our streets, speaking gibberish, going unnoticed. Of course its up to them whether they take in this knowledge. I can remember a time long ago, when I was once one of these young gangsters. I didn't have a clue what I was doing, and would have been lost if it wasn't for the kindess of a stranger helping me out. So Phantom, you make a very great point here, and I can't agree with you more. |
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| Reply by: Hayley at Dec 23, '08 18:45 | |
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If I may intervene with a new line of thought my friends - Since when has spelling been imperative to the Mafia? As far as I can see, we rely on quick thinking, intelligence and skill; Not the grammatical talents of those who may be slightly uneducated in American spelling. Some would believe that using this form of shorthand is an intelligent move in itself, saving time by spelling phonetically as opposed to using full words for quick speaking and getting a point across. Just throwing that out there to be torn apart by the narrow minded dogs of the world. Tuck in. |
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| Reply by: HeIIo at Dec 23, '08 20:30 | |
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Oh, one more thing for the Awesome one among us:
Please don't be so quick to jump to the conclusion that because someone cannot use grammar, they speak poorly. Bad assumption to make. Doesn't everyone love a different viewpoint? Call me crazy, but I prefer someone who is broad minded enough to see beyond how someone spells. Despite, as Awesome suggests, the "low intelligence" image that is created by the shorthand writing. |
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| Reply by: HeIIo at Dec 23, '08 20:34 | |
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Awesome listens to the man speak and nods his head furiously in disagreement. I disagree! You see, in this here world of ours, poor grammar is poor speaking. And it is a simple fact that the gibberish speak of which Mr. Phantom-Ghost talks expresses a low-intelligence. That's not to say they're not intelligent; just that they appear so. if spk lk dis me sem stoopid But if I speak like this then I do not seem stupid. Awesome sits down on the floor and eats an orange. |
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| Reply by: Awesome at Dec 23, '08 20:41 | |
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Frankly, as one that's been here a while, I've seen quite a bit. no, I will NOT tell my age and if the Rourkes spill it, it's all lies. I've seen a lot of newcomers to the shores of this grand country and speak in the most atrocious pidgen english one could imagine, but you also have to remember something. We can't just bust the chops of anyone that doesn't speak coherently because sometimes, english isn't their first language. I've known several awesome mafioso that didn't speak a lick and had to learn using cheap translation services that were just...well let's just say the translations were painful and archaic to the point of incomprehensible. We've all had a bad day where our tongues seem to fight us at every turn. Then there are the days of utter grace, where we speak and even the Angels listen attentively. She looks to Hayley and her crew and grins No, not THOSE Angels...well hell you get where I'm coming from. My only point is sometimes, putting a little effort in trying to figure out these newcomers pays off...othertimes it gives you a chance for a little target practice. I've always been of the mentality that, no matter how bad their english is, if the respect is there, then they might just be worth the effort of listening a bit more closely. My two cents of course, the dirty looks to the Rourkes are always free, as they well know. |
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| Reply by: Bombshell_Brandi at Dec 23, '08 21:34 | |
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LeXus aware that he's only a little thug, but he's got something to say. He speaks carefully, knowing that there are leaders that listening. "Well, someone told me that joining a family is the most important that someone ever made. So one must put an effort if he/she want to speak to the leaders. It is imperative to use appropriate grammar for such occasions. In my personal opinion, it's a reflection of how someone will respect him/her-self & respect others." |
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| Reply by: LeXuS at Dec 23, '08 22:37 | |
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HeIIo smiles to himself, considering the other's words. I'm in agreement with Brandi. Someone comes to you and cannot speak much English, but they could be highly intelligent people. "Do not judge a book by it's cover" is an expression which springs to mind. Overcome the language barrier, and you're likely to gain a very good member. LeXuS, you are right, however you must consider this: some individuals struggle to use appropriate grammar. Simply because, they are from a different country, they are from a place that has no problems with this shorthand type of speech. 'Tis but an accent Awesome. The accent of someone from a different place. What is the difference between you and u, aside from u being shorter? It sounds exactly the same to me, but is quicker to write. Of course, if it gets to a point where the word sounds different, then we should discourage it more so than we do already. When someone comes up to me and says "hi how u doin?", I'm not too fussed by it. If they take it any further than that, such as your example which was extremely exaggerated, then of course I'll point it out to the person. |
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| Reply by: HeIIo at Dec 24, '08 06:19 | |
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Awesome listened to HeIIo speak, took a bite of his orange, and responded. I think you misunderstand the point of what I'm saying. And so I will use an example. Two men approach and ask me how I am doing. One says to me "Hello, how are you doing?", the other says "hi how u doin?". The first person seems more intelligent. The first person seems to have more respect for quality. The first person seems to be more disciplined. The second person seems less intelligent. The second person seems to have less respect for quality. The second person seems to be less disciplined. Now, this is just an appearance; it might very well be that the second person is more intelligent. But I don't know this. If I was looking for an intelligent associate, and these two approached me, then I would pick the first man. So, for the personal interest of the people asking of me for work, it would be wise for them to speak as the first person did. And with the case of discipline and respect of quality: If someone is disciplined, then they will have the discipline to properly pronounce their words; 'you' instead of 'u'. And the same is true for having a respect of quality. Someone who speaks as the second man not only appears less intelligent, less disciplined, and less respectful of quality, but the fact that they spoke as they did almost proves that they are less disciplined and less respectful of quality. And such a person I would be hesitant to have as an associate. So, it is not in the best interests of these people to speak as they do. And it might very well be that, if my views on language are correct, that by speak more clearly, they will begin to think more clearly, and therefore become more intelligent and disciplined people. It's all in the interest of the people speaking poorly. It doesn't bother me that they talk like that; I'll just have little to do with them. It's for their sake that I suggest an improvement in their communication skills. Awesome stops talking, shakes his head with vigour, and then smiles. Awesome likes to shoot children in then face! Yay! |
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| Reply by: Awesome at Dec 24, '08 06:38 | |
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In all honesty, if i was in power I'd have no problem with these guys who aren't as well educated as the rest. It's usually these types of mobsters with nothing to lose that are most loyal, you can manipulate them how you see fit and throw them a bone now and then and they will prove they are loyal over and over. The intelligent people are the ones you usually see going rogue and betraying family business simply because they have their own set agendas before they even entered your family. Although it's usually a neccessity for people to pronounce their words properly, I think people should look past that and look at their other qualities. Not everyone is cut out for coming here and speaking out in the streets and in reality we don't need every member to be able to do that. That aside even if you aren't happy with their pronounciation, then you can always educate them yourselves or get someone else too, but personally myself I'd have no problem with it, I'd just advise them to stay away from the streets and the "n00b bashers" |
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| Reply by: Achilles at Dec 24, '08 09:50 | |
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I believe that anyone who speaks this "gibberish" language has no sense of character and shows that there range of vocabulary and being able to give speeches is very, very narrow. Also, it shows disrespect to any other crew member or leader (especially if they're are higher rank than you) because they are trying to discuss important matters or let you know something important and your over there responding "k dog no prob or i do it n a sec"...."gibberish" = pathetic talk! One last thing before I get on back to business anyone who "gibberish" talks is, no offense, lacking in skill with their computer. You have a keyboard GOD DAMN IT! learn how how to use the damn thing. Your not texting messages on your little block cell phone that thinks it can get internet. If you don't know how to use a keyboard than please go back to grade school and learn how to use one. *Tazz_J lights up a cigarette, takes a swig of his whiskey from his gold little flask, and calmly walks away allowing someone else to get there time in to speak* |
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| Reply by: Tazz_J at Dec 24, '08 13:51 | |
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HeIIo sighs and rubs his tired eyes before looking up at the crowd from where he was casually leaning against a wall. I hardly disagree with you on any particular point Mr Awesome, but we have very different viewpoints. The chances of you only looking for one associate is unlikely, and intelligence has a tendency to shine through a person's speech, and unless you intend on inviting someone to be your associate based on one short mail then it doesn't really apply to be honest. I'm a strong believer in opportunities for those who deserve them, and chances are that I'd give both these people an opportunity and I'd hope both of them would be successes. That would be the case of course, because of my amazing talents which would make me an *awesome* role model. Your whole third paragraph is gibberish to me, Tazz_J, with your futuristic ideas of keyboards and such. Does that make you any less intelligent than the rest of the people who grace our streets? I hardly think so. (OOC: *Ok, I really had to laugh here Tazz_J, because of how you mixed up certain aspects here. There was the idea of you walking away (RPing), mixed up with you talking about computers, keyboards, internet and cell phones. We're in the 1930s. RPing is good fun, and it's difficult to stay in character, but that's half the idea. Keeping up a character, from the 1930s, who would have no idea what a computer is ;) Easy mistake to make Tazz.*) |
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| Reply by: HeIIo at Dec 24, '08 16:41 | |
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