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| Question of Loyalty | Started by: DravenLynn on Jan 21, '09 20:59 |
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Draven steps up to the infamous soap box. Lighting up a smoke she takes a quick sip of her water and looks upon the crowd that has gathered around. So today I opened my mail and got a bit of a shock. Normally most of it doesn't cause me any issues but this one just struck a nerve with me. A simple statement that was used.
See fellow mafioso I have always thought very differently. My beliefs that my mother and grandmother before her taught me was that you protect your family. Friends are worth a lot but it is your family that protects you and is there for you through thick and thin. Now I am not saying that friends aren't there for you, but are they really their like your family is? IIf they are and they aren't in your family should they really be? It all brought up a question to me of loyalty. I am and always have been one that is loyal to the Fallen Angels. They are my family. I don't do favors for other families, but I do anything I can for my own family. Is this a bit off? I don't think so, but as to my mail I have to wonder. Are my beliefs questionable, or is it as it seems to me that some have a lost since of loyalty? Just a bit to ponder.. Draven throws down her smoke as she steps off the soap box. |
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| The woman's got a point, that's for sure. Blood runs thicker than water; and if your buddy's been with you for years, and your buddy's name comes up on the list? Well, your buddy doesn't pay the bills, and your buddy doesn't have your back 100% of the time(dependant upon your loyalty). Your family does. Or, if not, sounds like you need a new family. | |
| Reply by: Santino_Bucci at Jan 21, '09 21:03 | |
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I think, or at least I hope, we're all on the same page here. Family first. It's a bit harsh, but it's required. If your skin isn't thick enough to handle this fact, then maybe a life of crime isn't for you. Santino, you stole my thunder this time. So, since I believe most of us will agree, allow me to, as I enjoy to do, stir things up a bit. I think a lot of it depends. There's a lot of variables. Yes, when push comes to shove, you follow orders, even if that order means killing your best friend. But there's also things like Trust that you established to this friend. You obviously don't want him to die, and you hope he feels the same about you. But when your boss hands down the order to shoot, you can't tell him no. So what do you do? Are you so cold blooded that you shoot? Or maybe you pay him the respect of making sure you're the one to shoot him. Personally, I applaud. But let's look at alternatives. Please, voice your opinion. Maybe you request another shooter to take that target. He has to die, you just don't want his blood on your hands. Or maybe before it gets out of hand and guns are drawn, you try to protect them. I've heard of phrases like "white listing". It's protecting someone who is important to you. A friend, or maybe a lover or wife who works for a different organization than you do. Or you lie to your leader. Tell them you missed and fled the scene. Until your boss finds out the truth, you protect yourself, and your friend. |
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| Reply by: HarveyDent at Jan 21, '09 21:10 | |
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| Dent, you thunder-stealin' bastard! Good ideas, you should write those up into something, they sound pretty thought-provoking. And, the whole bit about paying the respect to personally kill your friend? I always liked that one the best. But only if it's in the middle of a rainstorm, and you have a Tommy-Gun, and it looks all artsy. | |
| Reply by: Santino_Bucci at Jan 21, '09 21:20 | |
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| Some have lost a since of loyalty. | |
| Reply by: Cavilini at Jan 21, '09 21:23 | |
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| Care to name any names, Cavilini? | |
| Reply by: Santino_Bucci at Jan 21, '09 21:25 | |
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After listening to what the distinguished don HarvyDent ga spoken,i can't help but share my own piece of thought on the topic that was being discussed. A request for someone to do the job on a friend not wanting to have his blood on your hands is more acceptable than the other options that were suggested . For to me once a friend, lover or wife becomes a threat to my family then tragic as it may but they have to go.The third option will be in my opinion the most unacceptable way of dealing with the situation that was presented.Lying to your boss is a blatant treachery to the organization that you belong.Punishable i think by death.And i'm pretty sure that all the family has this doctrine in thier family handbook..."never take sides with anyone against the family." It may be painful,unacceptable even to some but that is how our family survive. With that i give way to the others in the crowd who are more knowledgeable than me regading this matters. |
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| Reply by: the_avenger at Jan 21, '09 21:40 | |
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When we enter this life of crime we do so with the understanding that family becomes more important than anything. Our children, our spouses, and of course mere friends. Whoever sent that message needs to learn a thing or two. A friend never kills a friend? Not hardly. A friend is the best assassin available. Our killers come with smiling faces. |
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| Reply by: MrsButterworth at Jan 21, '09 22:01 | |
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That mail was from me. A few may know what this is referring to, if not than go on with your buisiness. Loyalty to your family should be there till the end. Kind of like a marriage lol... But when you start having problems from within your family's upper structure and you plan to go elsewhere and lose your life over the thought...well thats what this mail was all about. No ones perfect. But I know I havent ever killed a friend over nothing. Well maybe Striphe...but thats all fun and games.... Just dont let that little quote be blown out of context like its looking to be... Anyways Im retiring as I have too much going on in the real world at the moment. I had fun for 7+ years and hope you guys continue to help this place prosper. Will miss you all. |
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| Reply by: Cavilini at Jan 21, '09 22:04 | |
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This subject came up in the past for my grandfather, with his friend in another family and a war starting he had to choose between his friend and his family, but he knew there was only one thing for it. He had to protect the family at all cost. And in my mind that is the only option, you join a family to be part of it for life and to protect it with your life, because they are the one that have been taking care of you and protecting you not the friends you have in other familys. |
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| Reply by: Darkside at Jan 21, '09 22:07 | |
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Whilst sipping on his cappuccino at the sidewalk cafe Jim could not help but overhear this conversation. His ears had perked up a little when DravenLynn began; but what really had his head rattling was the number of people who felt there was anything here that was debatable. Finally Jim decides he has no choice but to weigh in. He clears his throat and rises, turning to address the small crowd. Are you people for real? When you decided to join your family you made a choice. Now you depend upon your family for everything, for the very air that you breath. In event of conflaguration there are no choices left to be made. Yours is not to reason why; yours is but to do and die. You rely on your family to keep you alive and they rely on you for the same thing. There is no room in this thing of ours for anyone who would even consider that there was anyone who was more important to them than their own family. If you don't possess this level of loyalty and devotion you are either in the wrong family or the wrong line of work. Most likely the latter as any true mafioso, even one who had come to dislike his brothers, would still neverturn against them. And failing to act or refusing an order is turning against them. There is no middle-ground here; no no-mans land in between. You are either with us or against us. If I ordered one of my soldats to shoot someone and they refused I would shoot them on the spot. No hesitation. No room for discussion. I think that perhaps these peacefull times in which we are living have made some of you go soft in the head. People are reluctant to make the hard-nosed choices that this business demands. I see people being warned when they should be being shot. The end result is usually worse. Your kindness isn't being mistaken for weakness - your kindness IS weakness. It seems like every time that I turn around I am seeing someone being disrespectful or otherwise acting inappropriately. And it just keeps getting worse because people are getting away with it! Oh, sure enough there does come a point when in frustration people finally do what they should have done to begin with (id est mete out some swift justice). The trouble is that in the mean time other people have seen the laxidazical attitude and assume that the rules are no longer being enforced, or at least are flexible. It's a cancer I tell you. It's a cancer which needs aggressive treatment. This cancer must be cut out of our society before it brings us all to our knees. More and more you hear people complaining about inappropriate behaviours, lack of respect and the like. Is it really any surprise that it goes on? Sorry, I went on a bit of a rant there; but this stuff really gets under my craw. I come from a family steeped in tradition which believes very strongly in the old ways. I beseech you all to stop and examine the path we're riding, for it is a path to our own destruction! Jim stops to catch his breath. He goes to speak some more, but reconsiders and drops heavily into his chair. He was getting too old to get so worked up. He signals the waitress to bring him a refill and sits back wondering if he had done any good here today. |
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| Reply by: Diamond_Jim at Jan 21, '09 22:19 | |
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Draven, you have made a great point here, one I have been thinking about. I have many friends on here, which I would do anything for. But within reason. My family always come first, no matter what. There have been recent times that a "friend" has wanted special treatment. It upsets me that people try to take advantage of a friendship. I will not give preference of one person over anyone else. I believe that all family should be treated as equal. I think that there are some people that do not understand loyalty. Would you do anything for the family? Does your family take precedence over a friend? That is loyalty. |
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| Reply by: Hayley at Jan 21, '09 22:23 | |
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IF your 'in' your 'in' If not.. well your just like everyone else... I think we can tell who is who. |
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| Reply by: Twenty2Life at Jan 22, '09 03:27 | |
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My great friend Webster wrote a little book. Here's what he has to say:
I think that says it all. Faithfulness to commitments or obligations. Adherence to a leader. Now, Webster was no mobster, and yet his words echo through time, and through worlds. A friend is not a commitment. Not a leader, not a government. Yes, being true to a friend is one thing, but loyalty goes above that. |
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| Reply by: HarveyDent at Jan 22, '09 03:33 | |
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Howey Listens carefull to Draven as she speaks,considers what she is saying and then steps forward to speak Your loyalty lies with your family,whether the person be your brother,your best friend,your cousion whatever, whoever they are if they are not in your family then if you have to kill him you have to kill them simple as. |
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| Reply by: Howey at Jan 22, '09 08:43 | |
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| That mail has nothing to do with loyalty or "special treatment" . It goes far beyond that to a personal matter, why this is posted in the streets...no idea. Drama I suppose. | |
| Reply by: Cavilini at Jan 22, '09 12:27 | |
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Draven looks at Cavilini and shakes her head. While you still can't seem to understand Cav it is quite sad and I wish you would have seen. To everyone that has posted I will not I agree with a lot of your ideas and feelings. I will not drag someone's name through the mud and that was not my intent here. Cavilini I didn't nor was I ever going to mention or post who it was. Remember you did that all on your own. |
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| Reply by: DravenLynn at Jan 22, '09 12:44 | |
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Draven throws down her smoke. Damn I do agree with a lot of your ides. Sorry about that it seems that I should slow down a bit sometimes. Draven laughs at herself a bit. |
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| Reply by: DravenLynn at Jan 22, '09 12:58 | |
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Gotta cut down on the wine, Draven. It impairs your judgment, lowers your inhibitions, and makes you talk like the village slum. Harvey laughs, passing her a bottle from his Napa vineyard Cavilini, I don't want to stick my nose in, so all I can say is that this began as a discussion about loyalty, with your conversation used only as an example to spark ideas and influence people to take part. As Draven said, it was not meant to drag you into this. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but it started as a good debate, which was it's purpose. |
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| Reply by: HarveyDent at Jan 22, '09 14:58 | |
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| Family is above all. You do for the family before you do for yourself. Friends are important, and it would be hard to ice a friend, and even worse, a very close friend. But if you can't do it, then you might as well walk away from our life style. You gotta do what you gotta do for the family. If a friend becomes a threat to the family, then he is also a threat to you. It takes a cold heart and loyalty to be in this line of work... | |
| Reply by: BlackVampire at Jan 22, '09 15:15 | |
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