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| Ending a War | Started by: LouisGato on Jan 28, '09 05:58 |
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Standing outside an Italian owned restaurant, in downtown Detroit and amongst the mobsters that come and go in these streets daily, Louis thought in silence, simply watching the men and women go about their business. Louis Gato was wearing a crisp new suit, though he wasn't doing great for cash, business had turned sour recently, his appearance spoke of great wealth. It wasn't long before he met his dealer though, so he wasn't too worried He glanced up at the greying sky, concerned about business for the markets of the lower district, where he was due to collect protection money. Louis looked to his right shoulder at his associate, Carmine Ttrapani, a Wise Guy helping out with his daily duties. "You know, I've been thinking. In the event of a war, what is the overall outcome for one of the two sides?" Carmine drew his finger across his neck and made a noise like gargling blood. Louis nodded in approval "You are quite right my friend. How about we change that? Make use of this Left Hand position and turn it into something... respected, by all. A man in this position is untouchable, he is the one person in the family that will communicate with the other side of a war to try and level things out, he will arrange meetings and appointments. I'm talking about an actual Consigliere." Louis drew a smoke and offered one to Carmine "Of course, the other families would have to vote on who they can trust and would respect in each others position, or at least offer advise. I suppose the question is, when things get started, can they be stopped? Can a cease fire be called, and what value can a Consigliere carry as not to be just ignored and actually be respected?" |
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A noble idea to be sure, Mr. Gato but one that I sadly feel is unworkable given the way we do business. Back in the old days, Consiglieres were advisers who had very little to do with the day to day dirty work of a family. This is almost never the case these days; advisers or Left Hand Men are nearly always high ranked, if not a hitter. Although it is a fantastic idea, and one that brings with it a necessity of intelligence and acumen, it's never going to be put into motion for the fact that the Left Hand Man will often pose a threat to the opposing side. |
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| Reply by: KingOfOnePercent at Jan 28, '09 06:06 | |
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While I agree that this is a noble thought, brought to the masses with best intentions, I tend to feel that it would, will or could only have very limited success or benefit. Wars are not entered into lightly. Wars are commonly, I'll avoid saying only but I'd strongly suggest it is a great majority, only entered into when all other avenues of recourse have failed. Any family, crew or crewleader who enters into war as a first choice, without trying to resolve it via communication and negotiation, won't be around for a long time. To then expect a consigliere, no matter how good or skilled they might be, to be able to solve the problems that have caused it to escalate this far, during a time where blood is being spilt and emotions are running even higher than normal, strikes me as a little too optomistic. |
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| Reply by: MikeHunt at Jan 28, '09 06:09 | |
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"Perhaps then, the position can be recognised and see through it's meaning before a war, maybe it can be known as the person to talk to, to arrange these things in order to prevent bloodshed?" "It seems anything worth having has to be written by the Gods before people will do it. What if the LHM position was tweaked, or Consigliere was a new thing all together?" |
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| Reply by: LouisGato at Jan 28, '09 06:13 | |
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Carmine takes the Cigarette offered, lights it up, and exhales slowly, thinking about past events in his home of Napoli I've always believed that any situation can be resolved. Most wars start over someone, taking something out of context. Even after Don's have met, sat down and agreed on a compromise, the one who feels though justice has not been passed down goes rogue, and many of our Brothers die needlessly. Carmine looks up at the sky, then at his trusted Capo Louis You and I have both seen great Mafioso slain out of an act of anger. A Don has a lot on his mind, and sometimes does not think rationally. A Consigliere with a different point of view can be of greater use and value than any gun. Taking a long drag of his cigratte, Carmine moves around, talking with his hands as all Italians are famous for doing Let the families vote for their most Trusted, Intelligent, open minded Mafioso to step up to be the Consigliere of their Family. Let them put in that one mans hands, the ability to negotiate their very lives and well being. This is an honour that goes to not just anyone. WHen the right minds are set in place, many vices can be solved with simple words and a kind gesture. After all, we're here to provide for our families, our sons.. The Future. Carmine goes back to smoking, deep in thought |
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| Reply by: Carmine_Ttrapani at Jan 28, '09 06:14 | |
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| Reply by: Carmine_Ttrapani at Jan 28, '09 06:16 | |
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| Not everything HAS to end in violence. If one person has to be sacrificed for the sake of the family, Consigliere and Don agree, then it's a risk worth making. These wars that often stain the streets can be avoided, not easily, but with much effort of everything that's willing to put their family before themselves. | |
| Reply by: Carmine_Ttrapani at Jan 28, '09 06:19 | |
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| Carmine, you talk of Consiglieres as a keeper of peace and a mediator - but you are referring to something which has never happened on these shores, only in the old days. Consiglieres, Left Hand Man, Advisers, whatever you want to call them are constantly and repeatedly put into place as a means of a threat by their Leaders. | |
| Reply by: KingOfOnePercent at Jan 28, '09 06:21 | |
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Who's to say we can't learn from the past? Consigliere's can be much more than just an advisor to The Don. It can mend relationships between rival families that often stem from the same bloodline. This world of ours is changing, if we don't change with it then this Thing of Ours can vanish into thin air. I ask that anyone not look at a Consigliere as a threat, but rather someone that's open minded, and ready to put Peace onto the table when all people see are bullets and coffins. |
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| Reply by: Carmine_Ttrapani at Jan 28, '09 06:25 | |
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This is moving into the realms of how each family is run or managed. This is a very different suggestion to the original "in times of war" comment. I don't see any difference in your follow on suggestion to what already happens, obviously dependant on each family and how they specifically run things. As I currently am fortunate to have knowledge of how at least one family runs it's operations *looks around to ensure he is not within earshot of any civilians or police* and specifically how the role of left hand man *wink wink* is viewed or used within that family, I can confirm that this certainly does happen. I have... errrr... I mean this person that I speak of has commonly been approached by other families for family related business. In the absence of the leader in question or of the right hand munchkin... I mean man, I know that this particular feller would happily feel in a position to make whatever call the situation required and have the utmost confidence that this would be backed without question by the family in question. I can't say that is how it operates for all crews or families, but for some it certainly is the case. Having a role such as right hand man or left hand man tends to make people stand out, in more ways than one. Accordingly, they have to act in a manner befitting. If I were slighted by a 'friend of ours' (Made Man and above) from another family I would be upset, if the same was as a result of the actions of a right hand man or left hand man... I would view it as a far more serious event and denoting the actions of the entire family in question. I speak on my personal opinion there, which might not tie in with my friend I spoke of above *winks again* or others in La Cosa Nostra. |
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| Reply by: MikeHunt at Jan 28, '09 06:25 | |
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| I agree with you, Mike, on the idea that a Right or Left Hand Man's actions reflect on his family. That's why it was suggested that everyone in the family votes on who's to be Consigliere. Everyone knows the rules and risks when they get involved. | |
| Reply by: Carmine_Ttrapani at Jan 28, '09 06:32 | |
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| "Like I said, Carmine my friend, it takes alot for the people of our world to follow something like that through, unless it is written by the gods. the 48 hours of protection that we offer to new people to our shores is only just holding, and that is with the gods help showing us who is or is not innocent" | |
| Reply by: LouisGato at Jan 28, '09 06:40 | |
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Listening to the discussion that is taking place the_avenger cant help but throw in his own opinion regarding the matter. Ladies and noble men,after hearing what has been said,I guess we could all agree that what was presented before us is a noble cause.And while it is understandable that some of us may have some reservations on this matter,why not think of other suggestions that would make this possible.Instead of shutting it down right away,with a "never been tried before,why not"let's all talk it over and try to make this work". Now some may think that it is another way of being soft.Well all I could say is being a gun ho without using the nut shell is not being hard core either.I'd rather look up to someone who uses his head more than he uses his gun.But uses his gun nonetheless when really necessary. *with that said the_avenger gives way for the other speakers. |
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| Reply by: the_avenger at Jan 28, '09 06:40 | |
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| An excellent point Avenger. I think that's the point that's trying to be made. Someone who sees a gun as a last resort, but never takes his finger off the trigger. | |
| Reply by: Carmine_Ttrapani at Jan 28, '09 06:43 | |
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Again, noble thoughts Carmine. However what is being 'suggested' is a way in which all families throughout the seven cities, the seven cities alleged in many media reports of being rife with 'mafia' activity, structure themselves and run their operations. While I never have any problem with someone raising a suggestion, it appears that this suggestion assumes that things don't already operate in this manner. Something that I don't agree with. It also assumes that a family, any family, will have agreement with someone else dictations their modus operandi. The idea that a don of one of our great cities would be dictated to in how to structure their individual operations is a touch nieve in my own humble opinion. Having said that, my experiences as a legitimate business man I might add, would tend me to believe that the families, sorry... alleged mafia families which I am full sure are nothing more than a figment of the media imagination, who are in existance DO operate on a very close system to the one being 'proposed'. |
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| Reply by: MikeHunt at Jan 28, '09 06:47 | |
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| By all means is it meant to be forced on all families. The voting system not only applies to those who choose to have a Consigliere to handle matters of war, but to also vote on if they want a Consigliere. | |
| Reply by: Carmine_Ttrapani at Jan 28, '09 06:49 | |
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| "Maybe I am too inexperienced and unimportant to know how the upper structures work, and too foolish to think that once a war is started it can be stopped. I still hope that in this day and age, with so many intelligent minds and prospering families about, there are family heads who know that they can approach one person within a rival family to discuss any tension between them and rectify it before it's too late, and a lot of progress is lost." | |
| Reply by: LouisGato at Jan 28, '09 06:59 | |
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*Places a hand on Louis' shoulder* Apologies my good man if I appeared harsh in my comments, not my intent at all. It's great to see people out there trying to have a positive impact on our world, I just ain't too sure this one is 'required' or would be all that 'positive'. However, that is my humble opinion, I'd be very surprised if there weren't others who felt equally as strongly the other way. Families, I take care in speaking for all so caveat my comments slightly, in the majority operate in this manner. Whether it be open discussions between members of the upper structures, the regular (constant) sit downs on IRC avenue between the upper structures or the friendships that most have built up over the passage of time. Where negotiations directly between the parties (including the consig) stall or breakdown, it is not unknown for common friends to even offer assistance in finding a peaceful resolution. |
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| Reply by: MikeHunt at Jan 28, '09 07:08 | |
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Strolling by, a young man stops and throws his two cents into the conversation. I would say that the position of LHM is universally respected- anyone who does not probably isn't around that long. Perhaps they do not receive as much respect as a the leader of a family or the RHM, as their station would suggest. But I don't see the need to try to inject new responsibilities to a position that already receives a great deal of respect, just for the sake of so. But, most importantly... I hold the utmost respect for the men who are able to solve their problems with their minds and words, as opposed to their guns. Any leader who resorts to war without first exhausting diplomacy is not only making a bad business decision, but is also needlessly jeopardizing the lives of the their people. I must say, though, that I disagree with this idea of using the position of LHM as some sort of untouchable mid-war negotiator. Once the bullets begin flying and two families go to the mattresses, the time for diplomacy is at an end. I've never seen a lasting peace forged between two warring families and I doubt I ever will. If you begin fighting a war and then would be willing to change your mind, then you simply didn't do enough work in the first place. Again, I'm all for negotiation and discussion to avoid a war. But once you hit that point, the time for negotiation has ended. |
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| Reply by: MacLeod at Jan 28, '09 07:16 | |
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Personally, I hold the view that this isn't a 'new' reponsibility. It has been the 'norm' for most families for some time. Things have changed from the 'old days'. Due to numerous reasons, be it police crackdowns or drug induced comas, it is not unknown for upper structure family members to be totally ignorant to a war occuring around them while they sleep. This phenonium, of total lack of activity when it is most required, has sometimes been referred to as them being 'offline' in the media. A euphamism for 'totally off their faces on drugs' I'm sure. Given this 'recent' notion of people being 'offline', strict responsibilities for a given role or position have had to adapt. Hence the current importance placed on the right hand and left hand family positions. As mentioned above, people need to adapt to the times we live in... so fluid responsibilities are now the required 'norm'. |
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| Reply by: MikeHunt at Jan 28, '09 07:45 | |
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