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| Like father like son. . . .? | Started by: The_Jedi on Feb 07, '09 16:06 |
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I woke up today after a restless night. I haven't slept in days, the recent events in the world were unsettling but that wasn't why I couldn't sleep, I was worried about the family. We're a young family, it's started well, Louis, has taken to the role with ease, he's doing all the right things and proving Gaurdian's instincts about him were correct so why am I anxious? Then it hit me. "Ladies and Gentleman, I stand before you today with a question, it's a question that will mean different things to different people and will no doubt invoke different responses and arguments but it's a question I myself, can not answer." I take a sip of water and continue. "Put yourself in the role of a leader, someone who is building up a family around the morals and idea's they hold dear to them. You take in a young thug, the thug is honest with you, he's the son of a disgraced mobster. His father was shunned from this life, tortured and killed for his crimes. The kid was honest, he told you of his pedigree and told you he's not his father, he's come to wipe the slate clean, move on with his life and start a fresh. "As a leader, knowing how this youth was brought up, knowing that there will be similarities to his father, similarities in his outlook on life, his morals and values. He's been honest but it's an honesty that may hold some foresight into the kind of man he'll be when he matures. "What would you do? Give him a chance? Expel him from your family? Let him stay but keep close tabs on him?" I take a sip of my water and await a response. |
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| Depends - I'm no friend of those who break the omerta, and unfortunately this bias will be considered for many generations. In any other case, The sins of the father are the fathers, since he is dead, he's paid his price, and the son should be free to live his own life. | |
| Reply by: Sal_Giaquinto at Feb 07, '09 16:16 | |
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Frankie steps up 9 in 10 people here have a dark secret, I can name 20 people now who do, but they have been forgiven for their parents mistake, and so they should be, we have all made mistakes, and as long as we show nothing but loyalty, respect and honour to our family, then there should be no reason not to forgive, we all make mistakes, damn..my father made thousands of them, but look at me compared to him, unless you knew my father, you wouldn't know I was related... Everyone deserves a chance, no matter who their parent was. |
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| Reply by: Frankie_Gogolak at Feb 07, '09 16:21 | |
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| Give the child a chance, and if he comes to become like his father, then there is nothing you can do. Everyone needs a clean slate and a second chance. But dont give a 3rd. | |
| Reply by: MrShady at Feb 07, '09 17:04 | |
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This is a very interesting dilemma and one which I have already had to deal with in my short time as Captain. I would love to give the kid a chance but it all depends on the severity of his fathers failures. As a new family, I cannot risk having our name dragged through the mud. However, if the kid was decent and honest I might be pressed to giving him a chance. |
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| Reply by: Stapled at Feb 07, '09 17:23 | |
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| Give him a chance but let him know that any signs of him acting like his father your justice will be swift with no chance of further generations joining your organization! | |
| Reply by: Paul_Pirazzi at Feb 07, '09 17:34 | |
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In most cases people will forgive and forget. After all the next of kin could be a totally different character. I can see why people would be hesitant trusting someone whos previous generations have made mistakes but as someone has already said many of us have made mistakes. We are all human. So those mistakes can hopefully remain in the past! And of course you can always hide the fact your are from a disgraced family line if thats whats needed for you to be treated fairly. |
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| Reply by: Gibsen at Feb 07, '09 17:40 | |
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Munchkin ponders the situation put forth and only one word comes to her mind Depends. Depends on a lot of factors really. What the infraction was that caused the death of the mans father. How this type of infraction could affect a family. But mostly it depends if during his honest talk with the new leader if he saw the error of his father's way. It's one thing to say "I am the sonofsoandso, he died and his name is not popular around these parts. But I realize what he did was wrong and learned from his mistakes." And it's totally another to say, "I am his son but he was misunderstood." |
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| Reply by: Munchkin at Feb 07, '09 20:53 | |
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| It depends on what they did, and if it was their first time doing it. If it were something like disrespect and a one time thing I would have no problem giving them a chance. But say they are known for shooting for no reason on more than one occasion then I absolutely wouldn't let him join. It all depends on the situation. | |
| Reply by: RandolfoRourke at Feb 07, '09 21:00 | |
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There is a lot to ponder on when it comes to this situation. Just about every bloodline has made a mistake one way or the other. I think Mr. Gogolak has said it the best though. And Boss Sal has a great point as well. Once the ultimate price is made, the next line of kin should be free of his life. |
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| Reply by: Ezekiel at Feb 07, '09 21:01 | |
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| It is a tough one, but in our world.. we must attempt to live by the principle that we are all new and different once we pass.. its tough though and one cannot put it past their mind based on the mafioso's past actions and known behaviors. | |
| Reply by: StripheVenzetti at Feb 08, '09 00:10 | |
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while sitting in back hearing this...he thinks to himself...am i like my father, grandfather or even my great grandfather.... Stands up...walks down the side of the crowd <starts to="" talk="" grab="" everyone="" attention=""> I watched my father and grandfather die because of the small stupid mistakes... tear forms wipes it away My grandfather worked his but off...same with my dad. If they could come back and tell me one thing...they would say that they regret doing the small mistake that took their life's. They always told me how great and safe the family's were. My grandfather was with PG, may he rest in peace. From the stores i heard, PG was a great person and leader. My grandfather like him as a person and leader. My father was with Sal_Giaquinto, points to sal_Giaquinto he told me, that you looked out for the family kept them busy, and treated them well. What im tring to say is that, yes some sons are like their fathers. But some are not. I look back at my families past and learn from their mistakes and take that and grow through this town and life. I will carry the JUICE name strong and proud. goes back to seat and waits for responses.....</starts> |
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| Reply by: Juice_V at Feb 08, '09 00:40 | |
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On hearing a few people around the corner debating with each other on their opinions of the topic at hand, he swiftly makes a move to to the front of the crowd where The_Jedi stands It's easy for me to answer this question but only because in my fathers journal he talks quite frequently about this situation and it's only right i follow in his footsteps by giving people second chances. Basically the approach i adopt is. Newly born = Clean slate But can i trust him? Some will say hell no but that is because they dwell in the past and can't move forward. If you can move on and give the former disgraced man/women just one more chance, in my eyes 99% of them will give you 100% and you will reap the benefits from this. Killing these son's/daughters for their father's sins = Bloodline hunting and that is something i strongly disagree with. |
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| Reply by: Guardian at Feb 08, '09 09:11 | |
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In a perfect world we wouldn't be judged by our parents and ancestors, but we don't live and work by what's right, what's wrong and what's fair. If we did we wouldn't be criminals. When I talk to most people in the mafia the old saying, "The apple doesn't fall far from the tree" comes to mind. It means a child is the same as the parent. A lot of people in our thing have the same traits as their relatives who worked here before them. The names and faces are different, but their personalities and work ethic are the same. I agree everyone should be given a clean slate, but that usually doesn't happen. People from bloodlines with good reputations are often seen wearing italic suits at a young age while people from bloodlines with bad reputations have to work harder than others to gain trust. I'm not saying either are good or bad. It's just how it is and probably the safest way to do business. |
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| Reply by: Maxie at Feb 08, '09 18:22 | |
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| Everyone deserves a chance or two but eventually, if a bloodline continually disappoints in the face of such chances, then maybe it's best for all if they're continually removed from the gene pool. We don't get many instances of such bloodlines, though there are a couple as we all know. | |
| Reply by: SwingingBo at Feb 09, '09 03:34 | |
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The one thing my bloodline has learned over the generations, is that your ancestor's past will haunt you like a bad dream. People may give you a chance, but virtually any leader will always keep an account of any past actions your ancestors might have performed. It's a sad reality. Everyone deserves a second chance, but there comes a certain point in a disgraced family line's history where there will be too many bridges burned, to the point where it will become a near insurmountable amount of effort to regain it. Long story short; Follow orders, and keep your nose clean. Next generation ancestors should have prosperous lives. |
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| Reply by: Vicodin at Feb 09, '09 03:55 | |
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Personally, I'm a strong believer in the old cliche "All debts are paid in death". Now, don't get me wrong, when my bloodline is in a position to put the security of an entire family at risk on the decision of who to let join or not, as the case may be, it has always been something they have taken very seriously. I have studied each of my forefathers diaries carefully, chuckling to myself that they even kept diaries if truth be told, hoping to learn from the mistakes of the past and build on previous successes. They have often allowed bloodlines of a 'questionable' past remain unknown to all but the upper echelons of the family, when in a position to do so. Personally, I feel this is the best way to handle the situation. Some bloodlines will go to great lengths to hide their past, going as far as pretending to be fresh off the boats and new to these lands. This simply ends in my family investing wasted resources to 'train' someone in the ways of our world, who has already grown up in these ways. A negative for everyone involved. Resources need to be focused where they can do the most good, not wasted on someone already familiar in this thing of ours. Do my bloodline watch these people very closely? Hell yeah they do. Do they get treated any differently to all but the most trusted of family? Not at all. Each new life to our land is judged on its own merits, if it isn't, it sure as hell should be. |
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| Reply by: -Satanta- at Feb 09, '09 05:35 | |
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If we all blame the sons for the fathers or a previous ancestors sins, then there will be a lot of homeless people. Most family have had a member do something bad at one stage in their life, sometimes is part of that steep learning curve we have here. I think is when every member of the same lineage do exactly the same, then is time to re-educate or expel |
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| Reply by: CaptainWho-err at Feb 09, '09 05:53 | |
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