Tais steps into the streets. Her mind angry and fiery as she approaches a nearby bench. Kicking at its legging to make sure it was sturdy before she stood on top of it. Whistling quite loudly to gather everyone's attention.

Wasted talent.. Have you heard this phrase lately? I have many times. If you have heard it does it make you as annoyed and angry as it does me?

Why does it make me angry? Let me count the ways. First being that it is generally used by someone judging something that they don't fully understand. Another is we have seen some amazing mobsters leave this world. No sign of their next of kin's around. They had talent. They clearly felt their talent was better suited elsewhere.

Although my line is still here does that mean I should use my talent? I mean is it really going to contribute to bettering the place? We've got discussions going on about how ranks don't mean anything. Respect means even less. Where idle threats are suddenly okay is not exactly the place I wish to utilize these talents of mine.

What does it mean to waste talent anyways? Does it mean you could build the best gun? Anyone could. So many Durdens floating by. But why would you want to? I mean if everyone has the same space for targets then someone is bound to know what your gun is worth. Hardly seems worth building one since you will just be gunned down if you get too close to the top.

Does it mean you could make money better than the average joe? Again I get wanting to protect your leader and their forts. Lord knows I would do something to protect mine but would I bother going above and beyond anymore for the same things? I am not so sure.

This place has lost some of the things that have driven my line to be so passionate about this place.

This new saying of "wasting talent" just seems to rile me up more.. What do you expect people to do if they are losing their interest, the fire that makes them work the way they do?

That’s a wonder question to be honest, what does “wasted talent” mean?

It’s really kind of a close minded stance. Whenever I hear someone use the phrase it’s because they believe someone has come up short to goals they themselves hold dear without giving thought to the fact that that person may not have valued the same goals. Maybe they were just looking for a little fun out of life or maybe they felt the need to stand up for something regardless of the consequences and that person uttering the phrase wasted talent has no clue of the circumstances involved.

On the other hand, if something like a person’s temper or inability to negotiate with others continuously holds them back from achieving goals they have set for themselves then that person has become their own worst enemy and is indeed a wasted talent.

What do you expect people to do if they are losing their interest, the fire that makes them work the way they do?

My fire has gone out on many occassions, often brought back by a friend. You have to engineer your own future in this thing of ours, you can't blame others for your lack of desire. You either have a desire to achieve something, or you don't. Others that prevent you from getting what you want are not to blame, only your own inability to manipulate such situations to your own betterment.

That said; I don't feel there is a plethora of wasted talent here, nor have I heard the phrase used recently at all, nevermind enough to irk or irritate me in any way. But then I don't frequent IRC avenue, perhaps its used there more? I don't know.

Having listened to Tais' speech from a distance, Maria had finally decided that she could hold her tongue any longer. 

Wasted talent.. Have you heard this phrase lately? I have many times. If you have heard it does it make you as annoyed and angry as it does me

Can't say I have heard it, to be honest. 

First being that it is generally used by someone judging something that they don't fully understand. Another is we have seen some amazing mobsters leave this world. No sign of their next of kin's around. They had talent. They clearly felt their talent was better suited elsewhere.

How is it that they don't understand it Tais? What exactly IS this something that they don't fully understand? "Someone judging something that they don't fully understand" is one of the most pointless and vague statements that you can make. This sentence means nothing when it lacks context the way this did. What kinds of things are they not understanding? Can we have some examples of this something? Is it the talent that they aren't supposed to be understanding? Because in my opinion most of us here have at least a decent ability to be able to read the talent of others. You don't have to work with them, you have to watch them for a while. Then you start to get an idea of whether or not they have any talent. If you don't mean talent, I'd dearly love to know what you're blabbering on about.

Ten out of ten for the observation that we've had a lot of people leaving our world. Yes, we have, and yes, many did have talent, and yes, they clearly felt as though their talent was better suited elsewhere. Now, it might be the case here that you consider there to be your way of thinking, or else the wrong way of thinking, but is it not possibly that when somebody refers to a bloodline that has left as a waste of talent, they mean it in terms of a waste for this world of ours, rather than the person themselves wasting their own talent? The definition of "wasted talent" you appear to be using is incredibly individualistic. Collectively when good bloodlines leave, it IS a waste of talent for this community, because ideally, we retain the talent within our community and that talent goes on to change the world for the better. Again, though, to look at it that way, you do have to look beyond  the individual.

Although my line is still here does that mean I should use my talent? I mean is it really going to contribute to bettering the place?

I doubt that many people are willing to call you out on this directly, but I will. Your line threw away a fantastic opportunity to better this place. Your grandmother threw the chances that the Godfathers gave her back in their faces with an almighty fuck you, and she sold her own crew down the river. Now, you may consider that to be using your talent to better the place, but I really do fail to see what she achieved in doing so. I find it rich that you now are coming here musing over whether or not you should use your talent and whether or not it'll better the place when you have an extremely recent ancestor who was given a chance that most here could only ever dream of - the chance to run her own district - who then threw it all away so easily, without seemingly bettering anything. Maybe your talents WILL better this place, but not when you use them the way your line has so recently.

 We've got discussions going on about how ranks don't mean anything. 

What I want to say on this point is pretty much the same thing as I said on my last point. Your line has very recently had a chance to make a difference on this and chose to throw it away. It really does seem especially cheap that you're bringing something up that your line so easily had the chance to help to change in spite of that fact.  

Where idle threats are suddenly okay is not exactly the place I wish to utilize these talents of mine.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with this. You aren't really making a constructive point beyond what I can only assume is a complaint passed down from an ancestor and trying to suggest that it's worth your line flouncing out of our world over. If it truly is worth that, then why not do it? If it isn't worth doing it, then why threaten it? If it's something your line has felt was an issue at a previous time, why did they not push it through the proper channels and ensure it was dealt with, even if that meant having to come to an agreement that didn't 100% suit her? To threaten that your bloodline "does not wish to utilize your talents" over something like that seems weak on your part. 

Does it mean you could build the best gun? Anyone could. So many Durdens floating by. But why would you want to? I mean if everyone has the same space for targets then someone is bound to know what your gun is worth. Hardly seems worth building one since you will just be gunned down if you get too close to the top.

At this point, Maria can barely suppress a smirk.  

I'm assuming that one would like to build a gun, or indeed, the best gun, so that when they attempt to wack someone, they actually hit, rather than miss and risk wasting their life for nothing.

Again I get wanting to protect your leader and their forts. Lord knows I would do something to protect mine but would I bother going above and beyond anymore for the same things? I am not so sure.

Sometimes, Tais, wanting to protect your leader and your district DOES require you to continuously go above and beyond, in much the same way as I would expect that you would hope that your leader would go above and beyond in order to protect you were it needed. "Something" isn''t always enough. Can you really claim that you're loyal to your leader when you as good as admit that you aren't sure if you'd bother to do whatever it was you needed to do in order to protect him? I am not so sure. 

What do you expect people to do if they are losing their interest, the fire that makes them work the way they do?

My line has been in this situation before. Several times. We either drift away for a while and come back when we want to play, or we find something that gives us a bit of fire and we chase it, hard. It might be a change of leadership, it might be to explore, for better or for worse, a new way of speaking on the streets, it might be a particular goal that we'd like to achieve while there is still one of our number here. At the end of the day though, if people are seriously losing all their interest and feel as though there is nothing left to work for and nothing they do is bringing that fire back, I expect them to do what countless other bloodlines have in the past, and leave this world, either for an extended period or for good. The one thing that I have learned, is that if that interest and fire is coming back, it has to come from you. You cannot expect others to do it for you. 

Keyser_Soze,

No one is going to understand the whole circumstances in which a person makes a decision. Even the Godfathers don't usually tell the whole truth on a victory war speech. You can only believe half of what you hear and sometimes even less than that unless you go to the source and they actually trust you enough to tell you it all. Rarity though.

Vaelin_Al_Sorna,

Thank you for sharing what makes your fire burn. I used to have people that were like that to me. I am glad you have found something or someone worth putting the effort in for.

Fresh from successfully running a loansharking operation, Paul walks through the streets and notices Tais stood on a bench. He stops by and listens. 

Wasted talent.. Have you heard this phrase lately? I have many times. If you have heard it does it make you as annoyed and angry as it does me?

Why does it make me angry? Let me count the ways. First being that it is generally used by someone judging something that they don't fully understand. Another is we have seen some amazing mobsters leave this world. No sign of their next of kin's around. They had talent. They clearly felt their talent was better suited elsewhere

I'll be honest Tais, I haven't heard the phrase used much. I also feel you're being much too vague here for anyone to be able to answer this question satisfactorily. Indeed the question is, as you put it, 'something I don't fully understand'.

People leave this world, that is a fact. To consider it in terms of them feeling their talents were 'best suited elsewhere' is a fairly one-dimensional way of looking at it. There are numerous factors involved in the decision of a mobster to retire from the life of crime, and for their next of kin not to follow. Time constraints, other commitments... Yes, even simply growing tired of this life: they may feel they have achieved all they can. This does not necessarily mean they felt their talents were better off elsewhere, and it is not really true to suggest their talents were 'wasted'. They are only wasted if they hold the potential to go far yet fall short, or if clouded judgement leads to the wasting of a chance given to them in order for them to prove themselves.

Although my line is still here does that mean I should use my talent? I mean is it really going to contribute to bettering the place? We've got discussions going on about how ranks don't mean anything. Respect means even less. Where idle threats are suddenly okay is not exactly the place I wish to utilize these talents of mine

If you do not consider it worthwhile 'using your talents' as you say, is there any point bothering at all? What do you get out of it? Surely a distinct lack of commitment makes this life far less worthwhile for you on a personal level, let alone there being little reward for your crew leader for taking you in only for you to do nothing for them?

This place has lost some of the things that have driven my line to be so passionate about this place.

What are these, then? Because in order to solve the problem it must first be identified. Ranting about a particular phrase does not identify this, and thus we cannot fully identify or debate the problems you perceive. 

I am not gonna follow much outside the original question here for now, sorry to anyone else in the conversation in advance.


Wasted talent.. Have you heard this phrase lately? I have many times. If you have heard it does it make you as annoyed and angry as it does me?

I have not heard it exactly, but i understand an idea of it.  After watching many ranks leave some explaining why in a suicide note, or a left note in their apartment building as they allegedly retire.  I have seen so many reasons from the state of society or a feeling they won't get anywhere where they are? why? maybe they aren't in the cool gang or maybe they feel they are better then they are.  Could some of them be polished, encouraged seen as untapped potential maybe but the lack of patience to wait sometimes is a weakness sadly

The truth is with some family lines it's cyclical e.g, i like my summers on the beach others the idea of legitimacy and their other family take grip.  Some return, some take longer out then others, my family line went two years without visiting America at one point as just were trying new things elsewhere.

Everyone should be using every talent they have and learning new ones to try and influence not just their possibility, but to raise their family above what it is, inspire something new they can teach lessons too.  Even if they don't get what they want, is nice to see a new spark in the young of wisened words.

I think the joy of a family head is seeing all the different talents bouncing off each other all doing their part for the family to work right.  As someone who plans to be seen around the business district a lot thats where i hope my talent can be developed although for now i have been using another, the simple art of gaining wealth.

The hard choice lies with how much a leader can inspire you i guess, to get that out of you.  I would give my best always in the hope it creates opportunities.  I have worked with my bosses line before and found they have always come with a fairness to them but i can't judge and neither would i those i haven't worked with.

The truth, we will all get the feeling of not being needed, wanted or appreciated in time and the repetitive drone like behavior especially if aiming to speed through the ranks can easily make you wonder if it's all worth it but the truth is; it is something you can judge and take a time out till people you rate higher come to power.

The truth, as society changes new rules from city hall arrive and different people emerge in society not everyone is going to be happy, for some even the structure and work rate of this society is a put off and if  regularly in the wrong place at the wrong time even more so.  Sadly is the life we choose, but sometimes we have to say, this is not for me or i am not willing to work that much and see if is another way we can help society if we so choose, like some of them helpful members i see in blue suits.

PaulHeyman, I am sure there are plenty of reasons to leave but are there really plenty of reasons to stay? As far as what I bring to the table for my crew leader is between him and I. Whether I do nothing or something, well right now Im doing something. Even if it is small just to spark up a conversation.

Yes, my point is vague. Vague isn't necessarily bad though since it opens the door for broader replies. Maybe even things I have not thought of.

I believe there are many problems. Identifying them doesn't always make things better though so I figured I would go off what someone said to be personally. You can only talk about what you know, well I know this phrase. I know how irritating it can be.

Moloch, Thank you for your views. I am not entirely sure I have much to add to it. You have brought up a few things I have not thought about adding such as the cycles that do repeat. Those cycles I find completely boring as they do not hold everything to standards, just to whose kissing your ass really. I can find nothing good about brown noser but that is just me.

Vaelin_Al_Sorna This is where we disagree. I do not personally think that I am wasting my talent. I do think that I have very little reason to bother with my talent. This does not mean I don't do anything for my leader or I am sure I would not be sitting in his crew.
You are right I am jaded. Quite. In fact I have every reason to be. I would like to be able to take your approach. I have tried previously but it doesn't always work for everyone.

As far as what will bring back the spark that will make me feel more passionate about this life then I currently do, that list is an easy one but I am not naive enough to believe it will ever return to our world while it is the way it is.

For me, personally, wasted talent varies depending on each person. Whenever someone has a skill and is aware of it, but does not take the time to harvest and use it, then that, to me, is "wasted talent". Some may be great speakers and their ability to influence others can make then great leaders, but if they don't take their talent out to the streets then it's just being wasted. Others can be just as talented with a gun, on the other hand. 

In this instance I agree completely with Vaelin. My bloodline has been roaming these shores for 5 years now, but not many of them found the motivation to stay and work hard. Now that I'm here, I've found a family that is close and offers what my bloodline has been looking for years. This has sparked in me the motivation to work even harder than my family has ever done before, and I have learned many things. The drive to work hard and harvest your skills has to come from people that motivate you because they want to see you succeed. 

Wasted talent.. Have you heard this phrase lately?

Not personally. 

I have many times.

Are you surprised?

 If you have heard it does it make you as annoyed and angry as it does me?

Why would it make me annoyed and angry? I don't even know why it makes you annoyed and angry? The bed you make for yourself is the one you have to lay in. Oh, wait, you explained why it makes you angry. I'm sure it won't be as simple as how I explained it.

First being that it is generally used by someone judging something that they don't fully understand.

Let's be honest with ourselves here Tais. No one will ever understand how another feels. As much as the saying "walk a mile in my shoes and you'll understand" is awesome, it's not realistic. The closest thing a human can get to this though is to judge. Everyone is judgmental, it's how we form opinions, feelings, general thoughts. There is simple judging, a natural thing and their is malicious judging. You came out here with a chip on your shoulder, you obviously feel like you've been wronged. Heck, you kicked a bench to prove how angry you are. The quickest way to feel judged is by doing the judging yourself. 

Another is we have seen some amazing mobsters leave this world. No sign of their next of kin's around. They had talent. They clearly felt their talent was better suited elsewhere.

Good for them? People come and go. Friends are like seasons. What's your point?

Although my line is still here does that mean I should use my talent?

Do you use your talent? Do you have any talent?

 I mean is it really going to contribute to bettering the place?

Alright, I don't know the whole story, you can enlighten me, if you'd like. Till then I have to form an opinion out of things I've heard. If you take this as me judging you by not fully understanding, that's okay. Anyway, if you contribute your talent of being a stand up mobster, become a crew leader and then toss it all away by taking a silly shot at Maria, no, you are not contributing anything to make this a better place.

We've got discussions going on about how ranks don't mean anything. Respect means even less. Where idle threats are suddenly okay is not exactly the place I wish to utilize these talents of mine.

While your mother was a crew leader she set a great example. Seriously, it was awesome.

What does it mean to waste talent anyways?

I think I already answered this, but I'll do it again. Your mother threw her crew away by shooting at Maria.

Does it mean you could build the best gun?

She missed, so, no?

Anyone could.

Maria.

So many Durdens floating by.

Maria.

But why would you want to?

When there is Maria?

Hardly seems worth building one since you will just be gunned down if you get too close to the top.

Is that why your mother threw everything away, abandoned her crew, because she would just get gunned down anyway?

Lord knows I would do something to protect mine but would I bother going above and beyond anymore for the same things?

Maria.

This place has lost some of the things that have driven my line to be so passionate about this place.

This place still has great people like Maria and Princess. They both help keep my bloodline around. They definitely keep me all fired up. 

PaulHeyman, I am sure there are plenty of reasons to leave but are there really plenty of reasons to stay? As far as what I bring to the table for my crew leader is between him and I. Whether I do nothing or something, well right now Im doing something. Even if it is small just to spark up a conversation.

They're two sides to the same coin. If you can't find reasons to stay, that's surely a reason to leave in itself? There's no complaining about something if you just sit there and do nothing about it. If you think something needs changing, you offer ways forward about changing it. Often that is close to home. You need to make your own reasons to stay. Do something differently, talk to new people, even re-evaluate how you are with others. You control your own life, you can't expect other people to change to suit you.

Yes, my point is vague. Vague isn't necessarily bad though since it opens the door for broader replies. Maybe even things I have not thought of.

No, vague is not always bad. But vague still needs to convey a message of sorts aside from complaining about the use of a phrase. What I can gather from your initial speech is that you're annoyed about the use of a particular phrase and that lead to you thinking there's no point staying. I can't really add to that other than to suggest that your distaste about the use of a particular phrase isn't a particularly major reason to be annoyed.

I believe there are many problems. Identifying them doesn't always make things better though so I figured I would go off what someone said to be personally. You can only talk about what you know, well I know this phrase. I know how irritating it can be.

If you think there are many problems, surely that means you have identified particular elements of this life (other than this phrase you dislike) that you find distasteful. If you want us to come round to, or even merely debate your point of view, we need to know what you think they are. This phrase of 'wasting talent' is not such a problem to me, as I have never seen it used and even if I had, it isn't one I'd find particularly offensive. Sometimes people do waste talent (I'd prefer to use the word 'potential') through their own actions. How else can it be described? I'm just intrigued to know what you think the problems with this world are at present, so I can provide a more comprehensive response.

PaulHeyman you are correct. I am sure there are tonnes of elements I find extremely distasteful among our way of life. Many of which have been beaten to death. Others I really don't feel the need to bring up at this current time. Possibly a later date.

My point is that one phrase that I don't like can hold many different meanings for different people. I think it's nice to see the different views from different people.

For example, you want more specifics. I prefer to keep it vague. If I get more specific then there is a great chance that I will veer off topic to discuss other things that aren't necessarily relevant to this topic.

There are some things we control but not everything. We can't control other people nor their stupidity. Can't control other people's opinions or beliefs. Thankfully we aren't all the same though.