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| The sleeping must suffer! | Started by: MrTrilacci on Oct 27, '07 07:47 |
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He raised his arms in a dramatic manor, "Somone must be able to provide an answer." "When my father came to these shores, only four years ago (read as 4 days, but you know, that ol' RP thing), he lasted a prosperous two before he was found dead, still lying in his bed with all the innocence (read as unsponsored from his leader being killed) of a child. My father was quick to move into his place as head of the family, and also followed in his footsteps in joining the mafia." Trilacci paused, collecting his thoughts once again before continuing, "Alas, my father ended up very much the same way, once again, innocence stlll set upon his face." "Both my Grandfather and Father were very close to me, I feel terrible pain at their loss, but not anger. no. I am confused, my friends, confused, and I wish to put forth a question to the...well, no...I'd like to put forth a question to anyone who wishes to speak their mind on the matter. My question is thus; When did the community turn from honorable mafioso, to whom the death of another has always tradionally been seen as a last resort, into blood thirsty criminals?" "Naturally, my choice of wording isn't accurate, but it's put forward that way to deliberately exagerate the point and hopefully gain more response. Please don't come here to simply lambast me for the way I've said things, it's intended to provoke thoughts, not violence or aggression." He continued, having said that piece, "You see, I've got diary entries from long long ago, countless forefathers and relatives, who spoke of this world and the many aspects of it. I may not be exact in this, but I deffinately recall it saying how people were given time to find a new home. I look now at the list of deaths in our cities, and I'm staggered by the number of unsponsoreds who were given absolutely no time. They weren't even given the chance to say their final words!" Moving on once more, "Back to my question though, when did this change occur? When were unsponsoreds given no time to find a new home and instead, merely used as..." Trilacci could barely get the word out, "target practice" He shook his head is disbelief, "These are human beings, just like you and I." He repeated his question once more, "When did the community turn from honorable mafioso, to whom the death of another has always tradionally been seen as a last resort, into blood thirsty criminals?" "Can anyone help me out here and help a confused, young man?" |
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Sure, I can. This community has always been bloodthirsty and the death of another has never ever been the last resort. Your diaries are inaccurate, people aren't given time to find new homes. The guns of the most powerful will always come out when a leader is gunned down, usually within the first couple of minutes, then they'll make an announcement against the killing of the former leader's members. It is how it works, you say one thing and make the majority follow that instruction, whilst you and your own hitsquad train. You also, if this is done properly, can then shoot anyone who breaks your rule. This only doesn't occur when the person gunned down is a personal friend of one of the most powerful, then they will most likely shoot anyone they find. Other than that you usually have to be pretty lucky to survive and hope nobody with a decent shot is in your city. Why should the unsponsoreds be given time to find a new home out of interest? What have they done to merit this opportunity? They joined, ultimately, the wrong person. I don't see any reason why they should be spared now that they're unprotected. So, yeah, this isn't a change. This has been happening more or less for my bloodline's entire tenure here. I can't see it stopping too soon either. |
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| Reply by: FollowerOfChris at Oct 27, '07 10:14 | |
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| The community I still believe is good as a whole. I do not think that has ever changed sir. There have been, and always will be, a minority of people who choose to bend and break rules as they see fit. These people have not care for respect of honoring the wishes of leaders who call for a cease fire on the refugees from a fallen family. No, I believe those people are in the minority, and though they exist, on a large scale, most refugees can find safety in another family if they so desire. Those who sleep for an extended amount of time may not know what happened, and these are usually the targets of the cowards and weak. | |
| Reply by: Polpot at Oct 27, '07 10:15 | |
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"Firstly, thankyou both for coming and making a response, it's appreciated." He turned to face the first, "You say that the community has always been this way, whether publically or otherwise, but you never stated how you feel on the matter - I'm intrigued, please tell. Your question of why they should be granted safety is something I feel quite strongly on, and I'll be honest, it's a damn waste. Sure, they're dead because of their boss or whatever legitimate reason is given by the predominant figures in the current society, but we're technically just seeing people die for the sake of exacting revenge upon one person. I can understand this to an extent, but nonetheless, some of those now dead perhaps had promising careers in the mafia, non? They could be the next great leader, the next best hitter, Right Hand Man, whatever. Potential - wasted." "That's how I see it, not a matter of punnishing all who can be punnished, but to keep the community alive - in more ways than one. I hope you can understand these views of mine, whether you agree or not." "Polpot, this minority you speak of, do you believe it truely to be a minority who do such 'cowardly' acts, or simply those who can, hiding the truth from those who don't know and blaming it upon others? I agree there is much good in this world, but how hard is it for this proportion of the community to keep the...not-so-good...part at bay so that such deaths do not occur?" |
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| Reply by: MrTrilacci at Oct 27, '07 10:36 | |
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| I say the minority because if they outnumbered the honest and straighforward people, more people would die more often. For the most part, refugees from fallen families have been taken care of and provided with new homes. There are a few who go against this, but the majority of people in a family only want to see their boss get more powerful. Shooting people does not bring power. You are powerful in numbers, so a large family gives such power. | |
| Reply by: Polpot at Oct 27, '07 10:40 | |
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Before I get onto my own feelings my man, I would just like to touch on what Polpot said there. This minority aren't cowards and most won't be ignoring their leader's instructions. In fact, most leaders tell their hitters they can shoot most things, just don't get caught. This is why people are shocked and claim shenanigans when hitmen are turning up with hundreds of kills, how is that possible? It is possible because they are given the green light on targets they shouldn't. Almost any good and not so good wacker will know that is true, it is just the former who've survived long enough to make use of this underhanded tactic. Anyway. I don't mind seeing every member of a family gunned down if they are leaderless. This is usually because I am one of the first to go when my leader dies. I can't remember the last time I survived one of my leaders to be honest with you. Perhaps if I did I would have a different opinion. I don't get annoyed by this, for me, it is just a part of the life we lead here. It isn't all negative. As I know I'm almost certainly going to die with my leader, I choose someone I know I can work with for however long I survive. I then do my best (last few generations excluded) to aid that leader and make them survive. Why wouldn't I? If they die, so do I. This is drummed into people from the moment they walk into a HQ. Read the donations thread your leader or one of their structure has posted. I would be surprised if it doesn't make reference to the fact, the stronger the leader is, the stronger you are and that if the leader dies, so will you. We wouldn't buy into this unless it had some factual basis, it does and it always has; people die when their leader dies. Therefore perhaps gunning down more of the so called innocents will teach them next time to invest more heavily in their leader. Then maybe that leader would have survived and then maybe they would have survived. Or maybe I'm just a bloodthirsty Gangster who needs an excuse. |
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| Reply by: FollowerOfChris at Oct 27, '07 10:59 | |
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Trilacci pondered the previous comments but chose to reply with another questions instead, "FOC, imagine the leader your bloodline has respected more than anyone else, or perhaps the one person who's changed our world for the better through their actions. Now suppose they never got the chance to do what they did or get where they got because they were gunned down as they slept instead of being offered a place to stay. How does that make you feel? Imagine how different our world would be from what it is now had the same happened to many people over the course of time. I genuinely feel that such actions hinder the growth and development of our world, that they are being held back because of a trigger happy instinct allowed to exist by others. I also believe this reflects poorly upon us and probably will only force others away from our way of life over time." He chucked, "Yet I still consider my self an optimist!" "That being said, there was one thing you said which stood out for me; 'people die when their leader dies'. I don't believe that's drummed into anyone when they join a family for that implies that once the leader dies, their members are fair game. Instead, I was always taught that when you join a family, you do so under the condition that you're there until either you die or your Boss dies. The two aren't linked, in my mind. It's one or the other. Is the family not dead when the leader dies and no one decides to take over the reigns?" "Anyway, you're entitled to your views as much as I am or anyone else, and I respect that...It's just a shame this discussion has so few other participants given that it's a topic affects practically every single member of this community." |
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| Reply by: MrTrilacci at Oct 27, '07 11:30 | |
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Firstly, there has always been a rule, whether spoken or not, that stated that any former member of a fallen crew that has that crews tattoo on them, is not to be touched. I have yet to see any leader, anywhere come out and say otherwise. Secondly, here is my opinion. We choose our leaders. ElanaDeLuca, as a leader had duties and responsibilities. However, she also had choices. I have no doubt that she wanted the very best for her family and tried to do the best for them. Unfortunately, things don't always go as planned, and crewmembers should realize that they do have the responsibility of choosing a leader that will take them down the right path. It should be understood, that sometimes war is inevitable and there will be casualties. Sadly. |
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| Reply by: Mr_Nobody at Oct 27, '07 12:49 | |
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"MrNobody, I'd appreciate if we could stray away from specific examples, that's generally where arguements come from and I'd like to keep this more aimed towards a discussion of mixed views and opinions." He moved on, "That being said, can I assume it is your opinion, therefore, that any and all deaths of those who belonged to a family with no head, are fairgame regardless of reasons leading up to that death? Just to clarify where you stand on this matter..." |
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| Reply by: MrTrilacci at Oct 27, '07 12:57 | |
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I love how you: A) Tell me what I should/shouldn't say. B) Ask me to comment further on what I shouldn't say. 1930's America is still America...Home of the Free...Freedom of Speech, etcetera, etcetera. -IcePrincess-, and I, as her official spokesman, stated quite publicly that no members of "the fallen crewleader" (vague for the purpose of straying from argument) should be touched. This "war" wasn't about killing everyone. It was about removing an unfit leader from power, and sadly, the leader that chose to ally herself with him. On a side note, it should be added that "this fallen crewleader" was contacted beforehand and given options from our side. She declared herself an enemy, and thusly chose her path. I'm not judging the path chosen either, we all have tough choices to make at times, thus my comment stating that. |
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| Reply by: Mr_Nobody at Oct 27, '07 13:18 | |
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| Dying in your sleep happens get used to it.Yor not a special case nor was i or anyone else who bit it last night.i am so fucking tired of people coming out here and moaning like an unpaid whore about how it is unfair they died in thier sleep or how they were killed while unsponsored...both of which happened to me in the past 3 days,and about 100 frigging times in the past 5 years.get over it or get off your ass and rank up and get a crew...become an evil prick and enforce all your own rules f happiness and sunshine. | |
| Reply by: Iron_Lung at Oct 27, '07 13:22 | |
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-IcePrincess-, and I, as her official spokesman, stated quite publicly that no members of "the fallen crewleader" (vague for the purpose of straying from argument) should be touched. This "war" wasn't about killing everyone. It was about removing an unfit leader from power, and sadly, the leader that chose to ally herself with him. Interesting statement there. I would go and consult your CL about her apparent change of heart since she is shooting at anyone she can. |
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| Reply by: Paddy at Oct 27, '07 13:25 | |
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| Paddy, before I call you a liar publicly, I'd like to know why you believe she is doing that. | |
| Reply by: Mr_Nobody at Oct 27, '07 13:27 | |
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Trilacci sighed, "Alas, you seem to have misunderstood me. Probably because of the choice of words I used, no doubt. I didn't tell you what you should/shouldn't say, wouldn't dream of it, although if that's how it came across, then I apologise. Why? Because this is a discussion I'm trying to provoke and for me to do something such as that would be somewhat of a hinderance to what I'm hoping to achieve. What I was saying though, was that I would appreciate if we could discuss the initial question and followups without resorting to using examples because in my experiance, such things do nothing other than cause another person to jump in and rebuke what was initially said...thus the formation of an arguement...and so on and so forth. There are plenty of arguements and whatnot surrounding the recent events at other locations on the streets." "Home of the free, it may be, but I'd ask you respect the one thing I ask of this discussion which was made to deter arguements from arising. Of course, you don't have to...but It would be nice..." |
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| Reply by: MrTrilacci at Oct 27, '07 13:30 | |
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He raised an eyebrow, "I'm sorry, where did I complain about the events of last night? Wait, I didn't. Iron Lung, please, I suggest you listen to all of what's being said instead of simply listening to the tiny snippets which interest you and then jumping upon them with the grace of a bull in a china shop. Incidently, I find you incredibly rude - unnecessarily so - and ask that if you have anything else to say here, it at least be relevent to the initial question/discussion posed and not just to cause an arguement." Trilacci turned to Paddy, "Sir, agian, I'd ask that this discussion not be about the events of recent. It's been spoken about enough and grows tiresome. Please stick to the initial question/topic or at least add something useful other than a comment intended to provoke an arguementitive response" |
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| Reply by: MrTrilacci at Oct 27, '07 13:35 | |
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And yet, I didn't use her name. I entered the discussion with a point of view, I'm told how I should phrase that point of view, told to explain further, then lectured on a discussion becoming an argument. I entered the discussion with a point of view. An argument arises when one person steers a discussion into a debate where there are right and wrong answers. I've stated my opinions here, and haven't claimed anything to be right or wrong, in fact going so far to say that we all make our choices, and have the right to do so. You, sir, by telling me what is right and wrong, have steered your discussion into the very thing you say you didn't want...an argument. |
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| Reply by: Mr_Nobody at Oct 27, '07 13:35 | |
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Paddy, before I call you a liar publicly, I'd like to know why you believe she is doing that. Quite simply I know she has shot at other people than just the two CL's |
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| Reply by: Paddy at Oct 27, '07 13:36 | |
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Of course she has. She has removed those that supported these two leaders. Anyone attempting to keep Sprozza alive has made themselves a target. That should go without saying. Now, that being said, no innocent members have been targeted. Anyone attempting to give a prowack, shoot -IcePrincess-, or any known member in the leadership structure of either of these families have made themselves target, and subject to be shot at. This is war, and this is how it is waged. Again, that should go without saying. |
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| Reply by: Mr_Nobody at Oct 27, '07 13:49 | |
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Witchy listened to the young mans dilema. "I understand what you are saying. I think things were more in order years back when there was a Godmother overseeing everything. Things were a little more civilised, for want of a better word. I am not saying it was all entirely the Godmothers doing but families were more established, some had been around for a long time. Perhaps that led to a little more respect. From diaries and notes I have read, I also think the overall leaders community and standing was far stronger". "In all I believe the hollacaust that took away that structure and stability has left an every man for himself type attitude. A survival of the fittest if you like, which still hasn't stablised". |
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| Reply by: Witchyx at Oct 27, '07 14:49 | |
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