By definition, a Made Man in the mafia is a Man of Honor. Prior to that a person is just associated with the mob, working towards getting their button to be come a Man or Woman of Honor themselves. That's why we don't see Made Men or higher robbing from gravesites.

As far as the homeless, when I read the obituaries, those people are gangsters themselves, not civilians. Otherwise it would be undignified.

Loffy was listening to Chelsea and what she had to say, and one day he hoped to be a man button man himself 

As I can see it an associate can be a man of honour also even do he hasent gotten the button jet, that can be because he hasent been around long enough to get it but he still can act like he has honour 

Not all low ranked associate rob graves but we all do crimes, to me honour is to serve your family and district as good as you can and always do what your told to do by the uppers, if the boss say jump you jump as high as you can no question asked.

I work hard to make money for the family and dont ask what the boss need it for, but if he tell me what its for it gives me a drive to work harder for him.

I think we all one day wants to get the button and we just need to work as good as we can to get it, I also know that we all can make misstakes that can hold us back. 

Curtis saw the young lady climbing onto the table above the crowd. After she'd kicked the thug in the head he smiled and walked over toward her for a clearer spot to listen. Encountering the perverted thug on his way he meted out a cursory slap across the head and sent him on his way. Curtis lent on a lamp post and listened to what Chelsea had to say. When she was done walked over and shook her hand.

"Thank you for your speech Chelsea. It's nice to see you out here and raising a valid enough question."

Watching as she stepped down, he took a seat on the bench beside her.

"PantiesBeDroppin makes a good point. We do turn a blind eye to grave robbing for the lower ranks as we live in a very difficult point in history. We are still enduring the greatest depression and economic disaster since records began and its hard enough to keep your family fed. Because of this we tend to ignore this type of recycling until our oaths are taken and at that point mobsters are expected to earn enough from crime. They no longer have a valid excuse for lowering themselves this way. As he also pointed out, the only really innocent homeless people around are civilians and you will never see one of them gunned down. Sure some take their own lives but they will never fall by our guns. 

​There is honor in our way of life but you must accept a different set of parameters to understand it. We work in crime, within that we try not harm each other and restrict our impact on the world around us to those who already have an unsavory way of life. Corrupt officials, bent cops, insured banks etc. The only crimes we see that impact your average working Joe tend to be the same as with grave robberies, only done in the initial stages of our lives, not when we have means to look after ourselves. As for our life withing our families, it is, or at least it should be, all about honor. We are taught to treat our superiors and elders with respect, we learn to speak clearly and respectfully. Our business ventures are always engineered to be mutually beneficial wherever possible and our operations often involve a great deal of community cooperation. 

If you accept that what we do is only really opposed by corrupt lawmen enforcing bent laws for their own benefit, then what we do isn't really lawless at all. So what if I want to provide a drink to a hard working Joe? The guy is an adult and can make his own decisions about what he drinks, why should some schmuck with a badge tell him he can't? I ask you, who is really in the wrong there? And sure we kill people but look at the people we kill. Invariably they are killed for breaking the rules we put in place to keep everyone we work with safe and our businesses running as they should. Sure once in a while an argument can't be settled and war breaks out but that happens in the so-called law abiding world just the same. Worse even."

He stands and looks around before finishing his point.

"I think if you look at it closely, you have to accept that we have as much honor and order in our lives as anyone. perhaps more respect and honor than most. At least that's the way I look at it."

​Flicking Chelsea a wink, Curtis steps aside into the crowd to allow others room to approach her and speak.

I would like to share my opinion on what is an honorable person in my eyes. This is regardless of them being in the Mafia.

I should probably address what i feel is important in the character of a human first. In a human? Gosh i mean a friend. Why am i correcting myself i know what i mean and no one can hear me anyway. I can literally say anything cause its in my head and people cant hear me...Poop. Haha ok focus what is honorable. 

An honorable person earns a place in my eyes that is not easily attainable. They are people who keep their word. When they say they are going to do something they go out and they do it, and if they fail they gave it every last breath to try to reach what they were aiming for. An honorable person is a sacrificial person to me. This is the kind of person who will bend over backwards to try and make sure that no matter what is going on in your life they will always place you first. They take time to see how you are doing. This is pivotal, a person who always takes time out of their day to check on others is huge in my opinion. An honorable person is someone who understands the importance of obedience and fears complacency. People like this are attractive to others. 

Thats good keep it rolling girl. Um, how would this work into the mafia life? 

If i could translate that into the mafia i would say a person who is loyal to their family is honorable. A person who is willing to donate and tribute instead of hoarding up is honorable. A person who cares to take time to train and teach the younger members of the family or crew is again honorable. I personally don't find any honor in the person who just sits back and clicks button. They are just getting by. If you are going to be present why not be the biggest and best present? 

Ok go shake Chelsea's hand and wait for others to speak. 

I really appreciate your thoughts Chelsea. I really like how you have taken time to come to the streets and provide something meaningful. I hope that others will come out because i know their are some great opinions that should be shared. 

Chelsea! I've been waiting for you to bring this to the streets. It's a wonderful first effort so well done on that.

I think it all depends on how you define honour. Honour to me is different in each walk of life and should never be looked at in the same light. 

For example, to be an honourable man in war you have to be brave, courageous and willing to go above and beyond your call of duty in the face of adversity, bullets and your enemy. You have to protect your way of life and your friends on the front line with you. This I believe in America in special circumstances reward you with the Medal of 'Honour'. Or on another example an honourable bum will be one that doesn't beg, lie and steal from other people as unfortunate as themselves but will share in his spoils and help those around him who are just as unfortunate. An honourable cop is one that refuses to let us line their pockets, will sniff out corruption and stamp it out. Someone who will always do the right thing and arrest those that are breaking the law. Obviously we don't like those kind of cops but that doesn't mean they do not have honour.

Then you look at our line of work. To be honourable in the mafia is to be a Made Man, it's to be loyal to your crewleader, your peers and your associates. It's to work for the mutual benefit of yourself and your district and in some cases it is even honourable to kill those of another district to protect those around you. 

Each individual example I have given is in my eyes, honourable. I guess for me it's more about the why and how, not who you are. 

Chelsea glanced at PantiesBeDroppin and smiled,

"Thank you for the compliment. What you have said has cleared up a few things. So really only someone who is made man or above can be deemed honourable. So we leave the less honourable tasks to those of lower rank? You are right about the grave robbing. I did not notice that before. With the homeless people though they are still homeless regardless of rank. So should someone of made man or higher rank really busy themselves with cleaning streets? Wouldn't it be a task more suited for low ranks?"

She turned to Loffy and grinned,

"I appreciate you coming out here my friend. You definitely have more courage than I did when I was your rank. I see what you do for our family and I believe you will get your button soon enough. Everything you mentioned that is being honourable I agree with. I definitely think serving your family and district well and being loyal and obedient is key to being an honourable mafioso."

"Curtis, it is a privilege to see you have joined in on this discussion. You make valid points. A lot of people are suffering financially that it is hard enough to buy some food let alone drugs to sell. So it is a fair reasoning as to why lower ranks may need to rob graves despite how unsavory that task may be. You mention only the really innocent homeless people are civilians but what makes a homeless gangster or any other rank not innocent?"

"When I originally brought this discussion out to the 'streets' I thought there would be a difference in interpretation of what being honourable is for us compared to what I originally thought because, like you said, in our way of life we must accept different parameters to understand honour. You examples really cleared to air for me there."

Chelsea curtsied to Curtis then turned her attention towards ZoeyH and shook her hand.

"I must say I agree with you in your statement of what you believe an honourable person is and I can see those qualities translating to our way of life as you so wonderfully stated. I guess I try to fulfill all those qualities myself not because I want to be called honourable but because in my mind it feels right."

Chelsea was glad to see FastFingersFreddy take part in the discussion

"Very well put Freddy. Let me ask you this question though but by all means anyone else can answer. You mention training all day and night to protect and serve the family and the boss that leads your family but what if that boss leads you down a path that is no longer considered honourable? What happens when a honourable mafioso is under the command of a leader who is not being honourable but who is instead partaking in vile and dishonourable acts? What is a honourable person suppose to do? Continue to be loyal to that boss because it is the 'honourable' thing to do OR stand against it because that is the 'honourable' thing to do?"

She spotted Jono getting involved and bowed her head in respect for her crew leader. The man she dedicated her life too.

"I am so proud to have get involved in this discussion Don Jono. The words you speak definitely have made be think about what is means to be honourable. Going off what Curtis said, here there are different parameters and like in the examples you gave us honour is deemed in different ways depending on the circumstances. With our way of life certain qualities, like the ones you and others mentioned, are expected from those people who bare the ranks of honour. But then I guess it comes down to the crew leaders to maintain that standard by promoting the people truly deserving to those ranks."

Chelsea

Many times has my ancestors dealt with the exact problem you speak of. What can I say, at the time they choose to follow their leader.

Other times it was proper to follow their heart and do the right thing.

We all must remember "MY" right thing may not be "YOUR" right thing. At the time one must weigh all the odds and judge according to how we feel at the time when the poop goes down.

Remember there is only the right answer for "YOU"

Chelsea stood there in thought after what Freddy said. She hadn't thought about it that way. That there was no real general solution to that problem.

"As always my friend your words hit the mark. At the end of the day it comes down to what is right by me when considering actions I take. Some people may view it as dishonourable while others honourable. Guess you will never please everyone so at least doing what feels right in your own heart is the best option."

"Thank you Freddy"

With the homeless people though they are still homeless regardless of rank. So should someone of made man or higher rank really busy themselves with cleaning streets? Wouldn't it be a task more suited for low ranks?"

I've always considered the term 'homeless' to be more figurative than literal. They have no allegiance to a particular crew in organized crime, but they are gangsters nonetheless. It doesn't mean they are sleeping on cardboard and eating out of trash bins. I'm sponsored by Visas' Exiles HQ in Los Angeles, but all 39 of us don't share a row home in Hollywood. I gots my OWN house, which by the way you and any other fine lady in this mafia are welcome to come visit and spend the night at if you wish.

But one's personal ideals are important, so if shooting unsponsored 'homeless' gangsters an act you deem dishonorable, then by all means don't do it. Probably not a very practical ideal though.

Honorable mafioso?

To me a mafioso who dies and bleeds for his family. A gentleman or lady who works hard to achieve what their Boss's plans have in store for them. Never turn on your own and die along side the ones who gave you a place to call home in times of war.

That's honor.  

We are all here committing crimes daily, wither its stealing from banks to knocking off local post offices , coning the poor schlubs and even to drug dealing large units of yes Heroin I said it Heroin. Each of these are not truly Honorable as we know. As We all know, these are all sins regardless from  small as a purse snatching to the crew-less gangsters that we remove from these streets daily as clean up and practivce. Non of these acts are honorable.

Death before Dishonor Period.