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| What is a Made Man to do? | Started by: Mongo on Apr 16, '09 09:37 |
| sorry about my OOCitis in there i forget myself when im tired apologies | |
| Reply by: Artios at Apr 17, '09 08:40 | |
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Artios: I respect your priorities, that's why I feel you should've waited until you were able to speak up after listening to everybody else because you did repeat something that was said. It's not like it was then or never, you could've talked later. A Family is created by the leader. The crest and the name deserve to die with the leader. I do agree with the people surviving, but until a new Captain can be announced by the GF or the city leader, I don't think any promotions should be automatic. Now, I have to admit that I have no idea how the Mafia behaves when the leader dies, but I'm sure that comparing organized crime with a Democracy for the people and by the people is a pretty bad example. |
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| Reply by: Adrian at Apr 17, '09 09:00 | |
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Sorry for my repetition then sir i apologies, i don't often get brainwaves so when i do i have to write them down I'm a little slow you see :) OOC in the film the Leader leaves the crew to a RHM or his air and as a civi can not run a crime empire it should be someone els. But as we said they are only speculations and ideas :) RP It would not be so bad if the made man or gangster in question was to join a branch of there crew but if they move city it should be in a box with a lid and a bullet in the brain |
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| Reply by: Artios at Apr 17, '09 09:08 | |
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It's interesting that the views here are so controversial. Perhaps some people don't really know what it's like to be "Made". When my father, Ares, took action against the woman who killed his boss (GRHS), he was condemned. Yet, if I had taken up the same action, it would be considered loyal...? |
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| Reply by: Mongo at Apr 17, '09 09:35 | |
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Ares' actions were condemned by his attackers. Not surprising, really. If they had looked at his actions objectively, with the people involved removed, they probably would have considered it to be loyal. I would hope so, at least. I'd really hate to think that loyalty is another of our fundamental traditions that we are about to lose. |
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| Reply by: Butt_Ox at Apr 17, '09 09:49 | |
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About to lose?? I consider it handing on by a thread, other values are being thrown around with out meaning or truely understanding the weight of them. If it was my choice, my family leader died and i was not in a position to set up and provide shelter for my homeless commrades then i kiss goodbye my siblings and go down with the ship. For me jumping to another family because you get on well with them in a coffee shop is disgraceful and cowardly. |
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| Reply by: ShoppingTrolly at Apr 17, '09 11:16 | |
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Having listened intently to this conversation Trig tried to decide whether or not involve himself. After all, he was only an earner, quite a young one at that. Still, this conversation touched on issues that were of tremendous importance and that spoke to the very core of what makes us what we are. The sense of honour and loyalty is what had drawn him to this life in the first place. Somehow being referred to as "men of honour" struck a chord with Trig. If we throw away these core values then we become nothing more than petty crooks, a bunch of thugs just out for all we can get. That was not the way that he wanted to be remembered. Trig continued to listen quietly, waiting for an appropriate opportunity to interject. As the conversation lulled Trigger screwed up his courage and stepped forward Gentlemen, if I may. I am proud to be part of something where a question of honour attracts so much attention. These are very important subjects that we have been discussing here as they speak to the very core of our nature. What makes us who and what we are. However what we must bear in mind is that things are not always quite what they appear to be on the surface. Sometimes you cannot judge a book by it's cover. While "keeping up appearances" is important, as the way in which we are viewed carries over into how we conduct business and how others will view, and treat us. Still, things are rarely as they first appear to be, especially in the circles in which we travel. In the specific instance that started this conversation a very important pre-cursor seems to have been overlooked. Most, if not all of the senior members of the family in question did not start out under High_Soc. Unless I am mistaken, and pleae do correct me if I am, High_Soc and Brick_Pollitt were authed by Sal_Giaquinto when he decided to step back from his role as a family head. Now, as Sal is still very much alive, I would think that it would be appropriate for those left "homeless" by High_Soc's unfortunate passing to look to Sal for guidance. Actually, even without considering that chain of events there is still a logic which would dictate that we not "go down with the ship" so to speak. Most families have sub-crews. If your Sub-Crew leader dies should you then throw yourself on your sword? Or would you simply wait for someone higher up the chain to give you new instructions. Ultimately all of High-Soc's former members are still answerable to Godfather JimmyTheLionHeart. I somehow doubt that his wishes are for everyone to go out in a blaze of glory. That would be completely contrary to what he set out to achieve. N'est pas? |
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| Reply by: Trigger_Mortis at Apr 17, '09 12:22 | |
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Alot of what you said makes sense, Trigger, but you should have left the Subcrew leader analogy out of your argument. There is a huge difference. A Capo (subcrew leader) is still in the same family as the Boss. It just so happens that he is delegated authority over a group of ten mademen. This is for purposes of hierarchy, not in severing family association. The ultimate question turns on whether High Soc was a part of Jimmy's family. If he was a Captain, then yes, he was part of the family. However, a Captain pays tribute to the Boss and generally does not run a crew of of over 10 members. "Captain" is another term for "Capo", or "Capodecina", which is a branch of a family containing ten members who are still affiliated to a higher Boss. This does not sound like High Soc at all. I do not know if he paid tribute to Jimmy or not. If he did not, then I do not think you can make the argument that he was part of the family regardless of whether or not that was anyone's intention. If our leaders wish to authorize Captains, then those Captains should function like Captains, not like separate leaders. If a Captain is indistinguishable from a Boss, then you can call him whatever you like. Call him a ham sandwich, if you choose. He is still a Boss if that is the way his family operates. |
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| Reply by: Butt_Ox at Apr 17, '09 13:09 | |
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| But doesn't a CL answer to a GF even if he is not his mere Captain? | |
| Reply by: Adrian at Apr 17, '09 22:32 | |
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The weaker answer to the more powerful regardless of their station in life. That is not what is at issue. A Boss (CL) is autonomous, whereas a Captain is not. I explained the role of a Capo di Tutti Capi (a Godfather) once already. The Godfather is the administrator of organized crime in the city, but the Boss is in charge of their individual families. That does not mean a Godfather has no influence on how a Boss runs his family, but that is derived from power, not from rank or position. This is an important concept to understand when we are discussing loyalty. One of the arguments presented was that High Soc's members were still loyal because they were answering to Jimmy, but that is only true if High Soc is a Captain and thereby part of Jimmy's family. If High Soc is a Boss, then he is not part of Jimmy's family and all loyalty in his family should be directed towards him alone. Then we need to establish whether High Soc was a Captain or a Boss. Apparently (if I understand correctly), he was meant to be a Captain. BUT, if he is not paying tribute to Jimmy and he is running a large crew, then he is a Boss for all intents and purposes, no matter what you choose to call him. I guess it really doesn't matter now. He's dead. But, maybe this discussion and these points I bring up will get some people thinking and maybe Captains will start to function like Captains and Bosses will function like Bosses. |
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| Reply by: Butt_Ox at Apr 18, '09 02:36 | |
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I think it really matters because this discussion is not just because of High_Soc's crew but it's about any fallen crew in the future. There just seems to be a bunch of people that believe the members of the crew deserve to live on, and another group that believes that anything from Made Man up dies with the CL. |
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| Reply by: Adrian at Apr 18, '09 09:15 | |
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| I agree with Artios I don't see why the family just dies after a cl's death. But it does'nt matter cuz things are the way they are and all we can do is adapt after something like that happens. But With all do respect to anybody that this is happened to, if the family structure was strong they'd be here.....Only The Strong Survive! | |
| Reply by: Shelton at Apr 18, '09 12:06 | |
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| I know quite a lot about the mafia.In real life I've saw the Godfather films and completed the first game.I've just got the second game and nearly completed it.On the second game it has all the families family trees with the pictures of everyone in the family and on the of the pictures in the Mangano family it say that one of them used to work for Bruno Tattaglia.The Tattaglia's were a family on the first game before you killed thier boss.So that means he changed family and the family had no Right hand men or anything.Also Michael Corleone took over the Corleone's when his father Vito died.If the RHM is still alive I think he should take the family and the LHM turns into the RHM.Thats what happens in the films. | |
| Reply by: Vito_Morello at Apr 18, '09 12:20 | |
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If games and movies are your resources in regards to learning about the mafia, then I would argue that you do not, in fact, know quite a lot about the mafia. Also, remember where you are speaking. These are the main streets, not OOC Avenue. |
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| Reply by: Butt_Ox at Apr 18, '09 12:25 | |
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| They are not my main resources.I just used them because I thought they were a good example.I was just suggesting. | |
| Reply by: Vito_Morello at Apr 19, '09 07:43 | |
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